| This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies. |
|
Locked on 04/24/2022 5:40:39 AM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childishness |
Posted on 03/06/2022 11:16:06 AM PST by CharlesOConnell
A man commits a serious crime, then he gets released. He has "paid his debt to society". But wait a minute, he's only ready for the half-way house. He's unlikely to get a prestigious job in his new prison suit coat, or any job at all; he has civil impediments, he can't vote or hold certain offices. His crime was serious enough that he won't be presumed to have been completely rehabilitated until he performs a notable service to society, or at least spends many years on the straight and narrow, so that his crime can be truly overlooked or forgotten.
In Catholic faith, your "debt to society" is paid by Jesus Christ on Calvary. It's called "eternal punishment", without Christ it keeps you from going to heaven. Supposing that you do take advantage of His sacrifice, you're truly sorry, have a firm purpose of amendment, if you relapse, you go again for forgiveness (to the Sacrament of Confession).
But your sin leaves a strong trace at another layer of impurity called "temporal punishment due to sin", like the civil impediments facing the half-way house prisoner. Because "nothing impure can enter heaven", there is a place or a state, a condition of purification to render you fit for heaven after Christ has finally saved you from hell. The Catholic Church calls it purgatory.
(Where is it in the bible? Where is the word Trinity in the bible? Where does it say that you only need a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Many valid principles aren't stated explicitly in the bible, but it does say to "hold fast to the traditions you have learned, whether by word or by letter", because much of the Gospel wasn't written down, as Jesus only wrote in the sand, the majority of the Gospel was taught from word to ear to people who couldn't afford expensive books, the exceptions were what tended to get written down. But the implication that there is a purgatory, is contained in the bible--see the comments.)
The ex-con can receive a pardon or commutation of his probation from a Governor, if he performs some heroic deed, saving numerous lives, or, like Chuck Colson, performs a long-lasting, valuable community service helping numerous people who can't help themselves.
In the Catholic Church there are 2 ways for the residual, temporal effects due to sin to be expiated: suffering in this life, or after life, undergoing purifying suffering along with other people who will finally be saved, but have to suffer for long without the vision of God--that is what causes them their pain.
Their suffering isn't meritorious enough to grant their release, the saints in heaven and those on earth suffering and practicing virtue can pray for the suffering souls in purgatory. In no way is their release by slow transfer of suffering or practice of virtue, "buying heaven". It's a long, excruciating process.
How the misunderstanding arose that Catholics think they can buy their way into heaven, is involved with history more than 500 years old. For a millennium of Christendom between roughly 410 and 1410, there was a Medieval civilization with harmony between faith and government.
Many small farmers would cluster around the manor house of a military lord who would protect them, in exchange for a certain fixed obligation of labor and agricultural produce. In most cases, those "serfs" had much more leisure than factory workers of the industrial revolution; there were a large number of holy days without work, and except for planting and harvesting, there were long stretches of idle time.
Another large sector of the economy surrounded monasteries, where the monks developed most of the farming practices that stabilized the serfs and their manorial lords. The monks who worked those monastic lands were sworn to poverty, so that monasteries built up large accumulations of economic value over decades and centuries of labor.
At the beginning, when lands were being cleared and put into production there weren't prominent town fairs ruled by merchants and bankers. Money wasn't used for sustenance, not even much barter occurred, life was mostly agrarian.
Charity was woven into the economy of monasteries. It was estimated that you only need travel 12 miles in medieval England between monasteries, where you could get a meal and minimal lodging for free, based on need. And the charity was also spiritual, including the ancient Catholic principle of prayer for the dead, which is biblical. (See "prayer for the dead" in the original King James Bible in the comment.)
There were foundations and benefices for praying for the dead, that allowed a person of means to support monasteries' charitable works, and in proportional response the monks would pray for the souls of the donors.
It happened at the close of the middle ages, that militarily strong nobles cast their eyes on the labor value accumulated by the poverty-sworn monks of the monasteries, which those nobles perceived as monetary wealth, especially where gold and jewels had been donated by the devout to adorn churches.
(Protestant writer William Cobbett wrote in his 1824 "A History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland", an anecdote, that an incredibly valuable, hand illustrated bible was stripped of it's bejeweled, gold cover, the much more valuable hand-illumined manuscript, thrown in the mud and trampled by horses hooves by raiders suppressing the monasteries in Henry VIII's England.)
A new religion growing up around this seizure of monastic lands and valuables, that sought to discredit the Catholic Church, spread the black legend that the "sale of indulgences" was abusive. But this was very exceptional. Today the stipend of a Mass said for the dead is $10.
What is the penalty for unrepentant sin?
Even his own church said he did it. The only question seems to be about his eternal salvation. DID HE DIE IN UNREPENTANT SIN and if he did, IS HE GOING TO HEAVEN ANYWAY?
You ALL say OSAS and Ravi is on his way to heaven, no matter what he did to those women (wife included).
So I ask again...what’s the penalty for unrepentant sin?
(if, if, if, if....LOL)
You know who has two thumbs and is seriously enjoying how crazy he drove you? This guy!
Go back to your false prophet’s teaching, but be warned that it’ll send you straight to Hell.
It should be such an easy question for you and the rest of your group of Nicolaitans to answer.
You ALL spout the false doctrine of OSAS, but you WON’T answer the question I posed. Why? You seem to have an answer and counter point to every doctrinal issue our Catholic friends pose, but now no “thus sayeth the Lord” on something YOU claim as one of the foundational doctrines of Christianity?
Your intentional obfuscation is telling, dishonest, shameful, and pathetic.
Aws a cultist following a false prophetess -as proven by her prophecies which never came true- you are steeped in works to achieve eternal life. Your question is the wrong way aroubnd, setting your little cultist trap to support your flawed axiom of works to achieve eternal life.
Your unsaved condition of your spirit is revealed in asking such wrong questions. When I accepted Jesus as Savior and Lord, did He expect me to then be a keeper of the law to rfeceive eternal life? LOL, I have a fallen nature still with my flesh so long as I remain in this body. Do I sin? Absolutely, and His Spirit within my human spirit now possessing eternal life by His Presence in me pricks my spirit copnscience so I repent of what I become aware of. BUT He is not abiding in my Human spirit as a goad to show me how and when to keep the law -which, if you read your Bible the Apostles declared was IMPOSSIBLE for me to do before I was born again in spirit and after I am now blessed to have His Presence in my born again spirit.
IF you had posed a proper question you would not be expecting working to keep the law; Jesus kepot the law perfectly and when He died upon that cross for me, He paid the penalty for ALL sin of those who call upon Him. Do you know what ALL means? As a cultist you want to believe He paid for the sins, as if there is a transactional relationship where I must "do" regarding the law in order to retain the eternal life He graced me with the day I first believed in my heart that He is Savior and Lord.
As a cultist your flesh is now shouting 'but, but' and you return to the vomit of your wrong question, because you are determined to flush grace away and feed your pride of self that perhaps even believes you can know all the sins -not that transactional wrong headedness- I am guilty of.
You cannot, as a cultist, comprehend that Jesus paid for ALL my sin when I was born again. WHY? Why ought we see that 'all' given as His Grace to us? Because that perspective does not seek to gain any glory or reward for my behaviors, leaving ALL the glory to Jesus Who offers eternal life to us as Grace, not by works. As a cultist that is the great stumbling stone for you.
+1
I will add to your comment that any cult or Christian falsehood steals from that given to Israel - which they could never fulfill - and attempts to clamp it like leg irons on the church to enslave them, is a false teacher. That message cannot save.
This issue was dealt with definitively in Acts 15, at the Council of Jerusalem...
The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:
The apostles and elders, your brothers,To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.
25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:
29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Farewell.
This was the totality of requirements the Church leadership wrote under inspiration of the Spirit to new gentile believers. Nothing about fulfilling the law. Nothing beyond this guidance .
And were these things required for them to be saved?????
NO.
Again, Peter, stood up and gave this account...
After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them:Anyone teaching beyond the inspired message of the Apostles is not communicating the Apostolic teaching, but either cultic works, of perverted pseudo christianity. As such, they and their religion are to be rejected by Christians.“Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10
Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?
11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
Hear His Word. Obey it. Treasure it. Do not add to it or pervert it.
Some people just haven’t read Acts 15 I guess.
GMTA.
The question you posed was:
"So I ask again...what’s the penalty for unrepentant sin?"
The word used by the Spirit that is translated into the English is μετάνοια (metanoia, pronounced met-an'-oy-ah). Very simply, it describes a change of mind, a 189 degree reversal of a person's belief. This change of belief necessarily must precede the outcome, which constitutes a modification of behavior.
This follows the unavoidable "ABC Rule" which is, to wit: Actions arise from Beliefs, which results in Consequences.
There you have it, Philsworld. You, as all descendants of the fallen federal head of humanity, the First Adam, are born to die, because the disease of sin indwells the first living cell of which you are constituted. And with that indwelling sin, your entire belief structure is thorougly tainted by it. The Adversary, the Devil, Satan takes advantage of it and becomes your master from the very beginning, That places you already under God's condemnation, your spirit dead to God's spirit; your soul 's activity producing sinful acts in the body; and under this situation the physical body one day to fail to move throughthe increasing level of imperfections.
In this phase of living, with Satan as ones master and sin guiding your actions, you can never present an inward trait or outward action that pleases the Mighty Righteous Gd, can you?
The only process that can change this is a change in the belief system under which one formulates actions that have the consequence of a heavenly abode upon death of one's body.. Obviously, that can only be accomplish through metanoia, fully carried through, and that is a state in whch one's master is Jesus Messiah, and the inward guidance is no longer sin, but the Holy Spirit Who completely subdues the power of sinfulness, leaving the servant of Christ wth the power to overcome behaviors contrary to holiness, thus pleasing the Triune God.
But how does this happen?
It is the Wrd preached, that plants the seed of The Faitg (Rom. 10:17) that germinates, grows to the point where the human can make the decision to accept The Father's transaction to freely give that person instantly a change of masters, through utterly, irreversibly, and unreservedly become totally possessed and owned from henceforth by the Gather's Only Begotten-in-the-flesh Son and Ruler of the Kingdom of God.
Now, this is a quid pro quo transaction--something given for something received. In this case, it is the human who agrees to accept God's approval for His Son's willngness to pay for the human's sins--all of them, not one excepted--with His incorruptible blood, and in exchange, the convinced human receives a pardon from all his/her sins, acceptance as a child of God and servanthood to the Perfect Master, as well as permanent, everlasting absolute life in the spirit, with The righteousness of His Son imputed him or her. And whle one still exists in the earthly sphere progressively advancing in spiritual maturity,
Summing this up, this new life is not possible without a change of belief from Satan's plan for one's life to the completely opposite plan that God has for salvation through complete trust alone and in Hs shed Blood alone, that when it begins here and now when the transaction is agreed, will continue forever and never brought up again.
One can never earn one's way to Heaven as long as Satan is ones master and sin is his tool. The unsaved person's Devil-guided works can never please God or His Christ.
Repentance and saving belief are inseparable, two sides of the same coin, and the chamge involving both at once happen instantly and permanently, completely and never partially.
Sorry, I don’t listen to the doctrine of false prophets.
—> Sorry, I don’t listen to the doctrine of false prophets.
+1
Always the best choice 👊🏼
It really is annoying, though. They grab a few verses that they think will serve what they’ve already decided...
...and then ignore everything else in Scripture.
You gotta take the Word of God as a whole, which most people choose not to.
—> They grab a few verses that they think will serve what they’ve already decided...and then ignore everything else in Scripture.
“A story as old as time Ulysses.”
- Rocketman
Yet you keep on sinning; right?
What’s your cure?
What is the penalty for REPEATED sin that has been REPENTED before?
How DARE you actually quote from the Book!
They grab a few verses that they think will serve what they’ve already decided...and then ignore everything else in Scripture.
That preacher needs to take his hat off. He’s inside for cryin out loud.
Without space a thing is not IN the Universe God created; without time events do not occur IN the Universe God created.
Jesus, The Word made Flesh Who dwelt among us, God with us now has a real physical body, albeit glorified to be sure. That physical body exists within the Universe God created. That body of Messiah can move around in time in ways we now cannot. BUT, there is coming a moment in time, the twinkling of an eye when GOD will put our born again spirits in just such bodies as that and we will be dimensionaly much more than we are now, and we will still be in the Universe God Created. HEAVEN is IN the Universe God created. The sacrifice of Jesus happened ONE TIME IN Time, IN the Universe God created. And that ONE TIME EVENT is reality for all of time and all of space, for it is reality IN the Universe God created. ... And I am trying my best to type this slowly enough to avoid making typos which Catholic freeper Salvation would leap upon to ignore the content.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.