Posted on 02/15/2022 5:49:53 AM PST by kinsman redeemer
I respectfully disagree. The distinction between "I baptize you" and "We baptize you" and the argument over that (what this article is about) is about putting too much power into church leaders, not about the age of the one being baptized and if consent and/or dedication to Jesus are necessary for it to be real.
Even if I believed that baptism is about the parents' involvement (Catholic view and view among high church Protestants) more than the person being baptized expressing his "out with the old man in with the new righteous servant of Christ man" (view of today's anabaptist churches, of which I'm part of). There's still the matter of that these church leaders saying their involvement is a necessary component for it to be real ("I" have to be the one baptizing you or it's not real).
What audacity the church leaders have to say that our relationship with Jesus hinges on their approval! The Pharisees would applaud many of today's church leaders.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
whoever believes. No matter what you have done, you will be forgiven if you just accept his grace. Their is only 1 sin biblically mentioned that one can not be forgiven for, and in my limited understanding that can not occur unless you have already received grace and then willfully, with malice even, blaspheme the Holy Spirit.
Where is it in the Bible that someone must “remember” an event in order for God to confer His grace? Your God is very small.
“An infant does not have experience (I’d say ‘capacity’) of ‘knowing’ anything ... In order to be redeemed, you have to be aware of your sin and repent. An infant cannot do that.”
Absolutely.
The Catholic Church is a great example of “mission creep”. Some of that was unintentional, some of it was intentional. Not that most Protestant denominations are much better these days.
I’ve listened to some Protestant sermons where Jesus is hardly mentioned at all. I find that to be troublesome (if that’s the right word to use).
“Baptism creates a permanent ‘mark on the soul’ according to contemporary Catholic belief.”
Cute ... but not Scriptural.
God is very specific. If you don’t think so, you need to read your Bible again.
“”he incorrectly performed thousands of baptisms for decades by changing one word.””
Decades? And it came to light just now - why?
right, also hopefully none of them passed away because that wrong recitation would cost them their salvation... bummer
Exactly
Matt 15:3
He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition.
Amen!
Again, a lack of memory doesn’t block out the grace of God. If that were the case, we shouldn’t pray for people who undergo surgery or who are in a coma.
It wasn't an "or" condition. And it wasn't a "then" condition either. Both were necessary.
Where does the Bible say baptism confers grace?
It is NOT some magic incantation. God is a judge of the heart.
BUT INFANT baptism is not biblical. It is ineffective because the infant has made no choice.
Thank you!!! God imparts His grace because he is sovereign and can do ANYTHING He wants.
What is your point?
Catholics are supposed to keep scrupulous written records of who was baptized and who their parents were and who presided at Baptism and where and when it was done.
Every Church has records spanning as long as that Church existed. Its actually one of the primary ways historians track down identities of ages past.
You need to explain how the thief on the cross went to paradise. He was not baptized, Guess G-d just breaks his own rules when continent? That is also not what God says of himself.
It is about Faith in Christ (G-d) and Faith alone. Otherwise NO ONE before baptism can come before our Lord. That is what you are defending.
No Abraham, Not Daniel, Not Joseph, Not Moses, NONE as they were not baptized.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:13- For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
if you must believe in your heart on Jesus and in his death burial and resurrection and you must according the bible- then you will remember it if you do it, nobody can give salvation to another person, Jesus died for all people but its every individual persons choice to call on him for salvation. he gives us free will because he desires our hearts and our worship. its not about saying words percectly its about acknowledging our sin nature and our need for salvation.
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