It wasn't an "or" condition. And it wasn't a "then" condition either. Both were necessary.
You need to explain how the thief on the cross went to paradise. He was not baptized, Guess G-d just breaks his own rules when continent? That is also not what God says of himself.
It is about Faith in Christ (G-d) and Faith alone. Otherwise NO ONE before baptism can come before our Lord. That is what you are defending.
No Abraham, Not Daniel, Not Joseph, Not Moses, NONE as they were not baptized.
repent was the primary verb, baptism was not part of salvation if so Jesus wouldnt have gotten baptized, acts 2 is talking about the proper order, baptism is a good work a work of obedience but water doesnt save you. Only Jesus blood can do that
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
as you read this scripture you see clearly that salvation is not dependent on baptism but rather on our belief in Jesus.
I’ll pass this along. Folks are quoting tradition as though it were gospel. Logic has its own force; if it’s logical, it’s logical. Tradition won’t overturn it. Faith that tradition is more gospel than scripture -— We will be judged by the books, not man-made tradition.
I will show four necessary conditions to becoming a Christian.
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Logic and Doctrine
We find a large variation in the various Christian theologies. Some maintain that faith alone is necessary and sufficient to save souls. Others agree that faith is necessary but assert that there are additional necessary conditions. Until all necessary conditions are fulfilled, the state of being saved is not met; in other words, the sufficient condition for being save is met only when all necessary conditions are met.
Doctrines established by using the rules of logic avoid the difficulties that arise when one prefers man-made tradition over the teaching of scripture. If the logic is solid, then the doctrine is solid.
Intro to Symbolic Logic
Definitions
Conditional statement: A conditional statement is often presented as IF (This and That) THEN (So and So). For Example: IF I score higher than 95 THEN I will receive a grade of B.
If this conditional statement is true, then a score higher than 95 guarantees the result, a grade of B.
In the case that I score 95 or less, there is no guarantee that I will get a B.
The professor could still award a grade of B based on other factors.
The conditional statement is symbolized as If P Then Q, P -— > Q, P implies Q.
In the example in the previous paragraph, P is “I score higher than 95”, Q is “I will receive a grade of B.”
Contrapositive: For P -— > Q, the contrapositive statement is Not Q -— > Not P.
In words: IF I am not awarded a B THEN I did not score above 95.
The contrapositive has the same truth value as the conditional statement.
This means that, P -— > Q is true, then ~Q -— > ~P is also true.
Should you find out that I did not get a B, you know that I did not score above 95.
From the previous paragraph: Should you know that my score was above 95, you also know that I will get a B.
Converse: Q -— > P. IF I receive a grade of B THEN I scored above 95.
Even if the conditional statement is true, the converse is not necessarily true.
The prof could have made a mistake in averaging scores; he could have given me an invisible bonus that resulted in a grade of B; he could have felt sorry for me.
The converse is a whole new game, requiring some contemplation before deciding its truth value.
Inverse: ~P -— > ~Q IF I didn’t score above 95 THEN I was not awarded a B.
While this has the same truth value as the convers, it is not necessarily true even if the conditional is true. Scoring 95 or less does not guarantee not getting a B, for reasons suggested in the previous paragraphs.
Biconditional Statement: This is symbolized as: P < -— > Q. Stated as P IFF Q or P if and only if Q.
The arrow points both ways. This is a very strong statement of logic.
A mathematics analogy would be: IF 5 + 5 = 10 THEN 2 X 5 = 10. This is the definition of multiplication.
IF we know that 5 + 5 = 10 THEN we also know that 2 X 5 = 10.
IF we know that 2 X 5 = 10 THEN we also know that 5 + 5 = 10
Necessary Condition: We can identify the necessary condition by the following procedure.
(1) Recast the information into a goal and an action using the connecting phrase in order to.
(2) Identify a goal and an action.
(3) Recast as Goal -— > Action
(4) The Action part is the necessary condition.
Belief
I think we are ready to quote some verses of scripture and examine them for their meaning.
” “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16
(1) I must believe in order to be saved.
(2) Goal = I want to be saved; Action = I must believe
(3) IF I want to be save THEN I must believe.
(4) The necessary condition is I must believe.
To be a Christian, it is necessary that one believe.
Repentance:
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out. Acts 3:19
(1) I must repent in order to have my sins blotted out.
(2) Goal = Sins blotted out; be saved. Action: Repent
(3) IF I want to be saved THEN I must repent.
(4) The Necessary Condition is “ Repent.
To be a Christian it is necessary that one repent.
Confession:
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. ~ Romans 10:9
(1) I must confess that Jesus is Lord in order to be saved.
(2) Goal = be saved; Action = confess Jesus
(3) IF I want to be saved THEN I must confess Jesus
(4) The Necessary Condition is to confess Jesus
To be a Christian, it is necessary that one confess.
Baptism:
And now, why tarriest thou; arise and be baptized and wash away your sins. Acts 22:16
(1) I must be baptized in order to wash away my sins.
(2) Goal = wash away my sins. Action = be baptized.
(3) IF I want to wash away my sins THEN I must be baptized.
(4) The Necessary Condition is to be baptized.
To be a Christian, it is necessary that I be baptized.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 1 Peter 3:21
(1) I must be baptized in order to be saved.
(2) Goal = to be saved; Action = be baptized.
(3) IF I want to be saved THEN I must be baptized.
(4) The Necessary Condition is to be baptized.
As an aside, Peter closely connects baptism with the answer of a good conscience toward God. Is this why an infant is baptized? Is his conscience motivating him to ask for baptism?
Four Necessary Conditions have been identified for the salvation of a sinner: Belief, Repentance, Confession, Baptism.
By themselves, none of these actions are sufficient to guarantee salvation.
Completing all four actions is sufficient to guarantee salvation to a sinner.
Know ye not that so many of us that were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death. Romans 6:3
I must be baptized in order to be in Christ. That is, in his church.
Nowhere does scripture teach that we believe into his church; we repent into his church; we confess into his church. Only baptism moves a sinner into the church.
If you teach that faith alone saves, then you are teaching that Christ will save outside his church.
And, by the way, baptism in the New Testament was immersion.
The Biconditional:
Using belief as an example:
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already... John 3:18
This verse contains the conditional: IF believe THEN saved, and the Inverse: IF ~believe THEN ~saved.
Therefore, this is a biconditional statement, and all logical statements, the conditional, the contrapositive, the converse and the inverse all share the same truth value.
Believe -— > Saved.
~Saved -— > ~Believed.
Saved -— > Believe.
~Believe -— > ~ Saved.
Verses can be found that result in a similar biconditional statement for Repentance, Confession and Baptism.
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https://www.khanacademy.org/test-prep/lsat/lsat-lessons
http://www.math.hawaii.edu/~ramsey/Logic/PandNotP.html