Posted on 02/15/2022 5:49:53 AM PST by kinsman redeemer
The Diocese of Phoenix said 'all of the baptisms he has performed until June 17, 2021, are presumed invalid'
"The issue with using ‘We’ is that it is not the community that baptizes a person, rather, it is Christ, and Him alone, who presides at all of the sacraments, and so it is Christ Jesus who baptizes," Olmsted said.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
Sorry does not fly. Christ died before the thief died. The covenant was finished, biblically the veil was torn the moment he died signifying the end of the old covenant.
So your argument fails and the bible itself proves so.
There are many other reasons why but I will stick with your train of thought. You are making the case specific to a few choice elements of scripture, in this case scripture does not support you at all
Salvation through intellectual comprehension? The Scriptures also say "trust not your own understanding," don't they? (Proverbs 3:5).
Be careful. It is no less Pelagian to say that God can't save you without your understanding than it is to say that God can't save you without your good works.
I suggest you review ALL the other scriptures that clearly state Jesus’s death alone and faith in Him is ALL that is needed for the sufficiency of his grace.
I don’t disagree with what you have said but there is MORE. Many can say and have said your very words and have not been sufficient. Some have cast out demons in His name yet, Jesus says “go away”.
Your faith is a gift of God, not of your own doing. Jesus dying on the cross is a gift of God and not your doing. Without being baptized in God’s Spirit we are lost. Get over the idea that God’s Spirit is only speaking in tongues.
I repeat, get over the idea that being baptized in the Spirit is ONLY speaking in tongues. I thought the same at one time.
Joh 3:5 Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.
Joh 3:6 Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life.
Joh 3:7 So don’t be surprised when I say, ‘You must be born again.’
Joh 3:8 The wind blows wherever it wants. Just as you can hear the wind but can’t tell where it comes from or where it is going, so you can’t explain how people are born of the Spirit.”
We are told we can’t explain how people are born of the Spirit. It is a mystery, but we can still explore the mystery with God.
Do you have any thoughts on the mystery?
“ you mean the theology that thrust the world into the dark ages by chaining the bibles to the pews of the churches, so that nobody could read the …
Off.
Ok
“his” love?
Hmmmm.... better check that.
You might mean “His” (i.e., God’s) love.
And then remember to specify the type of love.
In any case, as I explained to you, God is not bound by the sacraments anyway. We are.
after Jesus said ye must be born again- he was asked can a man go back into his mothers womb, Jesus was telling him no your born of water the first time, born spiritually the second time, someone was making it sound like the water birth was baptism which of course it is not!
Sory you are wrong
Pslam 119:160 All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal.
G-d cannot lie, therefore he cannot do anything he wants, as you put it. He cannot lie, not that he would want to.
I have had the debate with many ashiest who try to trip me up on the whole G-d can do anything. G-d’s nature prevents him from lying. Yes there is something G-d cannot do.
Honestly this is a trivial debate on the issue of what can can do, expect more form someone arguing doctrine.
The thief on the cross is also not truly applicable.
***He IS truly applicable, especially since [from our timeline perspective] he is the first one to enter into Paradise with Jesus.
He was saved under the Old Covenant,
***He was saved under the NEW Covenant, which was sealed at the DEATH of Christ, even before Jesus rose from the dead.
because the New Covenant wasn’t really “up and running” until Pentecost.
***Nonsense. The New Covenant was up and running the moment Jesus died. That was the moment the veil in the temple was torn and the earthquake happened.
Baptism wasn’t requirement
***And isn’t a requirement. It’s a sign of obedience and identification with the body of believers.
— not even a normative requirement (versus an absolute one) —
***Mumbo Jumbo.
for salvation under the Old Covenant.
***Nor under the New Covenant.
You might as well argue
***You might as well argue that aliens have the power to save you. When you write a phrase like that, it’s a gigantic blinking light that says “What follows is a straw argument”. Knock off the nonsense.
that Moses or Elijah or Abraham, not receiving Christian baptism yet nevertheless being saved, are arguments against baptism.
***Yup. Straw argument. And a red herring to boot. There are people who argue this set of points about pre-Christ believers, so I’ll let them take you on about this, since I am not convinced you are here to argue in good faith.
“a baptism by Jesus can still save someone who doesn’t know Jesus yet.”
Ah, NO. KNOWING Jesus is REQUIRED to be saved by Him.
Baptism has NOTHING to do with it.
That is why so many will be “left behind”.
ever hear of martin Luther and the reformation?
I think you can argue that many NT Christians received the Holy Spirit simply through words or laying on of hands without water baptism.
Find for me in the bible, one instance where someone was baptized who had not professed belief that Jesus was the Messiah.
By the way, this is completely ridiculous and unhistorical. Bibles were chained to stands, not to pews (which didn't even exist yet!), so they couldn't be stolen. If your Bible were worth > $10,000 because every word had to be written by a monk with a quill pen and a candle for light, you, too, would take steps to make sure it couldn't be stolen.
And the "dark ages" refers to the breakdown of civil authority with the fall of the Roman Empire in the west. It had nothing to do with where Bibles were, or weren't.
Every time we have details on that, they’re baptized, or at least told they need to be baptized.
being born of the spirit does not require an immersion in water.
Saving grace occurs the moment you accept our lord, that is sufficient.
Not a single example of infant baptism in the Bible.
Can a dog or cat be saved? If a kangaroo was baptized .... How about a koala, or a panda ...?
The twists and turns that are used by various denominations to support infant baptism are unfortunate and an affront to the Word of God. An awful lot like what the Jews had done by the time of Jesus Christ to create the Law as promulgated by the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Depends on where you put the comma, keeping in mind that punctuation wasn’t a thing back then. “Jesus said, ‘Today...’” or “Jesus said today, “You...’”
study history you will find it has everything to do with God and his word, of course his word cant totally be bound, but the reformation came when people broke away from the catholic church- which when you study revelation you see God describes it in not so nice terms.
Now why would Martin Luther matter to me?
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