Beth Moore Takes The Road To Rome!

Coffman’s Commentaries on the Bible

Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Keep the commandments of God ... The current fantasy that “believers” are in some way saved without obedience should be reviewed in light of many such passages as this. Any “system” of salvation that promises people eternal life upon any other premise than that of fidelity to God’s commandments is false and should be identified with the second beast.

Yes indeed, Mr. Coffman, yes indeed.

The Apostle Paul trumps Mr. Coffman.

Does Paul trump John? John says that the Saints that end up in heaven keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus...salvation through Grace, THEN obedience. Unrepentant, willful lawlessness will not be tolerated by God. Those who practice such will NOT be in heaven, no matter how much you want it to be true. That is made absolutely clear in the bible, and even by Paul.

Galatians 5:
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Is is possible for a ONCE SAVED person to revert back to their sinful nature? OF COURSE IT IS. And what does Paul say of them that do these things? THEY SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. They commit lawlessness. They break God’s law. If they are unrepentant, they will not be going to heaven. They will be lost.

Same with 1 Cor 6:
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

And Hebrews 10:
26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Revelation 22:
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

(BLESSED ARE THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS.....)

15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Once saved, always saved is a lie of Satan, that you and your friends perpetuate, that God specifically warned us about. ... Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate” (Revelation 2:14, 15).

“The doctrine and works of the Nicolatians came forth from a WRONG interpretation of the grace of God that was preached by the apostles. They misused the Grace of God and the liberty in Christ to fulfill their carnal (sexual) lusts and desires.” (You could substitute ANY OTHER SIN)

1 John 2:3By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments. 4If anyone says, “I know Him,” but does not keep His commandments, HE IS A LIAR, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone keeps His word, the love of God has been truly perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him:…

Guess what? Unrepentant liars won’t be in heaven either.

That does not support the spiritual hospital paradigm of the church.

It’s not to nurse people along to spiritual health.

It’s to equip believers for the work of the ministry

A timely reminder from today's Mass Gospel about the healing desires for those being sent out in their Ministry. (You are correct though, it would take the Catholic Church 200-300 years to formalize the first "hospitals" to care for the sick after the Resurrection.) :

Jesus appeared to the Eleven and said to them:
“Go into the whole world
and proclaim the Gospel to every
creature.
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved;...
These signs will accompany those who believe:
in my name they will drive out demons,...
They will lay hands on the sick,
and they will recover.”

Now that the dust has settled…

The self-refuting seems to be your forte.

Just as in the first century Christian community, today there is no end to heresies, they STILL pop up.

Forte? Really?
Are you just typing that to type it? Or could you please explain or example what you feel is self-refuting of what I am saying.
And I never said of heresies that they are no more – or even that they die easy. We are still dealing with heresies from the 500 yr old “Reformation” still ongoing today.

You made the statement:

“He is rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. We don't need to identify
ourselves as "Protestant", "Pelagian", "Montanist", "Catholic", etc.
because we are CHRISTIANS…

To which I pointed out that there are those who “diligently seek him” as you say- AND can hold incorrect, heretical views as well. Just because one is “Diligently seeking him” is not a standard one can use to winnow falsity from Truth. That’s what you’re not seeing.

Do yourself a favor and look up the way in which the early church leaders combatted the damnable heresies of false prophets/teachers who as ravenous wolves crept into the assemblies of believers to try to lead them astray. Did they stand upon, "We are THE church and we say so!"? No, they used the Scriptures to present the superior arguments and through their examples and prayer they trusted in the Holy Spirit to teach the truth to the hearts of those who were sincerely seeking to know it.

So on your advice- I looked into it.
I see the very first “conflict” of the infant Church and
opposing beliefs had to do with the Judiazers, and Circumcision...
The boys got together... and they hashed it out... and decided no more snip-snip. Sure, the Holy Spirit was involved in that First Council- but this was new Doctrinal territory now… and it was said of this get together “There was MUCH debate” (Heck Yeah… those adult Gentiles had some real concerns…)
What WAS clear was that new doctrine needed to be developed for this infant Church… and by this Council approach - heresies could be dealt with. Every heresy disagreement wasn’t like Pentecost and tongues of fire coming down. FALLIBLE men had to come to agreement.
The Church Father’s also influenced with their wisdom in their writings against the heresies they saw- but it was in fact a process that would evolve into an Authoritative body deciding the Rule of Faith for the Church (Doctrine) going forward !
Which is in fact “Case Closed – We say so!
Now in your mind- did the Holy Spirit take a hike before Nicea- or for the next 1500 years and let this Church thing go off the rails? We don’t think so… you say yourself – “ in the Holy Spirit to teach the truth to the hearts of those who were sincerely seeking to know it. Are you excluding then, the "sincerely seeking" men over the centuries of the developing Catholic Church in this Spiritual process as well?

That’s what the Church antagonists would like us to believe… The Holy Spirit checked out for a millennia or so, left the Church hanging... and decided to return back on the side of modernistic individualism, when it began to sink its claws into the Christianity in the 1500’s?

It's laughable that all these different sects and denominations that keep popping into existence all the time- each of course filled with the Holy Spirit... and all having their own beliefs (as if the Holy Spirit were somehow schizophrenic or something) - yet though with all these different Churches and beliefs they all definitely seem to have unity - to have at least ONE thing in common- and that is the 2000 year old Catholic Church is bad. (And False…)
Coincidence?
So do you think any of these competing ideas of what they think the Faith in Christ through the Church he established just might have it wrong? Isn't it possible that at least some of these non-Catholic faith beliefs have some incorrectness in their ideals?
Well, that’s what the Church has been dealing with ever since the Judiazers - and always will. Whose job is it to combat heresy than?

And not for nothing - most people, in my experience, leave the Church looking for something else, yes… but something simpler, more individualistic.
Confession is probably the gnawing dealbreaker for most exits, if a real survey could ever be done. No one I know who walked away from the Church ever said… ”Ya know, I really miss confession”.
On that, there can be no disagreement.
You may not choose to be Catholic- as you wish- but that is the only way you can have a "material" relationship with Christ in your Life...

and it doesn't get any more "personal" than that...

Does Paul trump John? John says that the Saints that end up in heaven keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus...salvation through Grace, THEN obedience. Unrepentant, willful lawlessness will not be tolerated by God. Those who practice such will NOT be in heaven, no matter how much you want it to be true. That is made absolutely clear in the bible, and even by Paul.

I'm not interested in carrying on the SAME arguments with you once again. You claim you believe in salvation by the grace of God and not by works yet you contradict yourself by posting passages out of context and misinterpreting them to try to make Scripture contradict itself! You also FALSELY accuse me and others of saying that sin doesn't matter with God and people can just live as they please in wanton disobedience to Him because they think they will still go to heaven. No matter how many times we have been over this, you revert right back to your false accusations. I know good and well that your religion teaches an accursed gospel and you think keeping the Law is how you are justified. Then, you go even further and insist that everyone who is justified MUST keep the commandments in the same way as you do (e.g.; Saturday worship and not Sunday).

Why do you refuse to answer when I ask you, "What saves you? Your faith or your works."? Scripture is crystal clear that it is by the grace of God we are saved THROUGH faith and not our works. Why do you then insist disobedience to the commandments will make one lose their salvation? If you can lose your salvation by what you do (works) then those works must be what saves you. Are you blind to this contradiction? I repeat, we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works which God has foreordained for us to walk in them. We demonstrate our new, sanctified, born from above spirit nature by how we live in holiness glorifying God. But it is NEVER these works that save us. Anyone who claims to be a believer in Jesus Christ as Savior but who has no evidence of a changed heart or conviction of sin, should examine himself to see if he really is in the faith. But it is NOT his works that save him! It's either grace OR works - not both.

Those who are trying to force you to be circumcised want to look good to others. They don’t want to be persecuted for teaching that the cross of Christ alone can save. For the circumcised do not even keep the law themselves, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast in your flesh. But as for me, may I never boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. For neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything. What counts is a new creation. (Galatians 6:12-15)

What did Paul say to the Corinthian believers? Post the rest of the passage:

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

If I told you once, I’ve told you a thousand times…salvation is by FAITH ALONE. Salvation cannot be earned by any means. However, faith without works is a DEAD faith. Jesus Christ actually calls one a LIAR if they claim salvation by faith, and then don’t OBEY Him out of love for what He did. THEN, Paul warns us what will happen if we WILLFULLY SIN AFTER WE HAVE RECEIVED KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, while professing our faith (salvation…DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE, after receiving the truth):

Hebrews 10:
23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

….26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins

I obey Christ BECAUSE I love Him for what He did for me on the cross. We are COMMANDED to be holy and obey if we claim salvation through Christ. You might as well spit in His face if you WILLFULLY commit sin after claiming salvation…despite unto the Spirit of grace (v 26). THAT is why Christ hated the doctrine of the Nicolaitans. And, one will certainly lose that salvation if they go down that path. I wonder how many Nicolaitans lost their salvation believing on once saved, always saved?

Can one can still go to heaven if they say they love Christ, yet refuse to keep His commandments? No! THEY ARE CALLED LIARS. That is made crystal clear in the bible.
Following Christ, AFTER CLAIMING SALVATION THROUGH GRACE means DOING SOMETHING (action). It means following Him wherever he goes. It means obeying His word. It means works. It means KEEPING HIS COMMANDMENTS. We are set apart for holy use and following Him means living a holy life. Teaching once saved, always saved is nothing more than an abomination of God’s gift of Salvation.

I don’t know what kind of Christian teaches that one who claims salvation through faith, and THEN rapes, commits adultery, fraud, embezzlement, lies, despite being sanctified, IS STILL GOING TO HEAVEN? (well, you do, right?)

The whole duty of a Christian is to keep God’s commandments and OBEY. THAT is the true test of love for Christ.

John 14:21 Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.”

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and remain in His love.

1 John 2:3 By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome,

THAT is the basis of the NEW COVENANT. Lawlessness will not be tolerated and those who commit lawlessness will not be in heaven. If you say you know/love Him but don’t keep his commandments, you are a liar. Absolutely clear.

KEEPING THE COMMANDMENTS
https://biblehub.com/library/orr/how_to_live_a_holy_life/keeping_the_commandments.htm

(more to come)

What did Paul say to the Corinthian believers? Post the rest of the passage:

You must think that I’m your pet monkey? If you have something to say, SAY IT! Stop with the organ grinding.

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. AND THAT IS WHAT SOME OF YOU WERE. BUT YOU WERE WASHED, YOU WERE SANCTIFIED, YOU WERE JUSTIFIED, IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, AND BY THE SPIRIT OF OUR GOD.

Now, let’s revisit Hebrews 10 and specifically focus on v29.

23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

....shall he be thought worthy
....and hath counted the blood of the covenant
....wherewith HE WAS SANCTIFIED
....and hath done DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE

Sanctified, saved by Grace. But, NOT GOING TO HEAVEN if willfully sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth. THERE REMAINETH NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS.

....”And that is what some of you were.” They were living in sin, they received the truth, they were then living holy lives and keeping God’s commandments. And if they revert back to a life of willful sin, AFTER RECEIVING KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH?

THERE REMAINETH NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS. They will not be in heaven.

Once saved, always saved IS A LIE, being taught by (almost) every Christian denomination/bible believing church in the world.

Romans 1:

17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

....For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; (WHO HOLD THE TRUTH IN UNRIGHTIOUSNESS)
....who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them
....who changed the truth of God into a lie
....because that, when they knew God
....professing themselves to be wise, they became fools

Once saved, always saved is a lie.

If you can lose your salvation by what you do (works) then those works must be what saves you. Are you blind to this contradiction?

Nope! We are saved by Grace (faith unto salvation), and JUDGED by works. Those who hold to the doctrines of the Nicolaitans (once saved, always saved and unrepentant, willful sinners) are going to be in for a big surprise when Christ returns.

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS.” Revelation 20:12.

Stop the personal attacks.

About 25 years ago we attended an SBC church in CA. They brought in the Beth Cult and we left.