Afterlife

Over the course of my military career, I’ve been around A LOT of health/fitness-conscious people. Many of them have become true believers in things like cross-fit, yoga, and other forms of exercise and it becomes a way of life for them. Similarly, I’ve seen all the passing diet and nutrition trends that seem to come on strong, make a big splash, then fade off into the twilight as quickly as they arrived. My observation is that younger people generally want to look good by putting in the work (sweat equity), while older people generally want to look good by changing what they eat. Either way, the goal is to look good and embody the epitome of health.

Now, there is nothing wrong with wanting to stay healthy. There is nothing wrong with wanting to eat healthily. I mean, we only have this one body and we have to make it last as long as we can, I suppose. We should all strive to “do better” regarding our own personal health. No, what I’m referring to here are the people that obsess about their appearance. They obsess about wrinkles, body-fat percentage, balding, gray hair, or dress sizes.

The days of our lives are seventy years; And if by reason of strength they are eighty years, Yet their boast is only labor and sorrow; For it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

In the passage above, Moses makes the declarative statement that the age of a man’s life would be between 70 and 80 years. Interestingly, Moses (who himself lived to be 120 years old) wrote this o/a the 15th century B.C. Life spans since then have varied greatly with parts of the ancient world and the middle ages only seeing life spans reaching into the 30s and 40s. However, it is curious to note that we are now back at a time when this 70 to 80 years of life, seems to be the norm, not the exception. But let us make the case for 80 years as a standard. Heck, we could even make the case for 100 years or 1,000 years of age. What do any of these lifespans mean in comparison to eternity?

3. (usually plural) any of the aspects of life and thought that are considered to be timeless, esp. timeless and true

4. (Theology) theol the condition of timeless existence, believed by some to characterize the afterlife

Even the Antediluvian patriarch Methuselah, who lived to the great age of 969 years old, has now been dead for over 4,000 years. We could fit 12 of our 80-year lifespans into his 969 years, and even he would say his life went by in a flash. Not only that, but he has now been in the eternal realm (at least by our measure of time) four times longer than he lived. Thus, Methuselah will spend all of eternity in the glorious presence of God.

Paradoxically, we live in a world absolutely fixated on the here and now, and this has blinded many to the real nature of reality. True reality, is not what we can touch or see, but the world we can’t see. The writer of Hebrews noted that the Law, the Temple, and everything else, are but shadows of the real things already in heaven. The real reality is the eternal realm. It is the timeless state of being that exists outside of our universal fish tank.

Author’s Note: I often use our fish tank to demonstrate to my children just as we exist outside of the fish tank in our home, God exists outside of our universe, and yet, we are not far away. We can add or take water out. We can add food or move the fish to clean the tank. We can add in décor or take everything out. Furthermore, we can look in and see Goldie’s entire existence all at the same time.

God exists outside of our fish tank so to speak, and He can tweak or change things according to His purposes. However, even though God the Father exists in the realm eternal, He still has nearby and has full reach and depth into our existence through His Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Furthermore, he can look and see everything, all at the same time and He has determined the length, breadth, width, height, and duration of our existence. Here are some Bible verses affirming the sovereignty of God’s universal rule:

Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,’ Isaiah 46:10

And He changes the times and the seasons; He removes kings and raises up kings; He gives wisdom to the wise And knowledge to those who have understanding Daniel 2:21

And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; Acts 17:26-27

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” Revelation 1:8

But for some reason, we live in a topsy-turvy, upside-down, bizarro-world. You’d think, given the demonstrated certainty of death and the brief nature of our present existence, we would be hyper-focused on the world to come and not on the chaotic, ever-changing world we see crumbling before our very eyes.

And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever. 1 John 2:17

Life here on earth without God, is at best, elusive. We come into this world helpless, wholly dependent upon others, but naively thinking, this is the way it will always be. However, we grow, learn, and realize that we will not always have someone to hold our hand. We are expected to become increasingly independent and capable of doing things on our own.

As children, we let our imaginations run wild, thinking magic, fairies, and monsters exist, only to find out those things are real, but not at all as we imagined them to be. We are then thrust into a public education system that begins by ignoring the reality of God, and pummeling our senses with the government-approved propaganda stating we are nothing more than evolved, cosmic accidents with no rhyme or reason for existing.

Growing older, we learn to lower our expectations in people and situations, and we end up settling for the reality that if we are really lucky, we can find purpose and meaning in our life. We hold on to that until we realize that even purpose alone cannot satisfy the deep longings created by the complexity of the human soul. This sentiment was perhaps best expressed by the aged and gritty Rolling Stone philosopher who declared, I can’t get no satisfaction!

The life we currently live is as God declares, but a vapor; it is here today and gone tomorrow. Therefore, it is perplexing, to say the least, how much time people spend on their physical bodies now, which is in the very process of dying, and how little time people spend thinking about where they will go once their earthly existence comes to an end. The fact that we spend infinitely more time on the other side of that deathly vale than on this side of it, is the great lie people have bought into. The reality that people are so invested in their physical health that they will go to great lengths to extend their lives either medically or surgically, proves they don’t have a zeal for life, but rather, a tremendous fear of death.

The fear of death has been terrifying the unsaved for millennia. People of all cultures and ethnicities have gone on to create all sorts of elaborate rituals and schemes to obfuscate the reality of death or redefine the afterlife. The Vikings had Valhalla, to which they could only enter if they died heroically in battle. The Hindus taught reincarnation, in that death was not the end, only an endless cycle of death and rebirth. The Muslims believe in paradise and their arbitrary 72 virgins. Roman Catholicism teaches salvation through purgatory. Atheists believe in annihilationism. The Bible, however, declares that upon our last breath, and our last heartbeat, we enter into the realm eternal.

And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:27-28

Seeing as how death has been sort of a permanent mainstay in human history, it would seem to lend credence to the second half of the passage. We live. We die. We are judged by God. For the unbeliever, there is no recycling, no raucous, beer-laden Valhalla, no virgin-filled paradise, and no self-flagellating purgatory. It’s one and done, and then eternal separation from their Creator. For the believer, we are judged at the Bema Judgment, and then we spend the rest of eternity with our Creator.

While many of us feel as though we have done dreadfully little on account of the Gospel which saved us (in comparison to what we receive in return), we continue to work, to witness, and to be the kind of people Christ called us to be. We do this even if we do not see the fruits of our labor or the worldly rewards in this life. To this point, the writer of Hebrews, detailing the life of the faithful patriarchs, concluded that-

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them. Hebrews 12:13-16

Admittedly, the Christian life here is hard. I would venture to say that being a Christian in the 21st century is even harder, and why, so many are turning from the faith. G.K. Chesterton once said, the Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried. Jesus promised us that in this life, we will have tribulation. He promised us that if we love Him more than the world, the world will hate us. In his epistles, the Apostle Paul taught us this world is not only, not our home, but is in fact, a battlefield. A battlefield in which we contend not with flesh and blood enemies, but dark, malevolent, and vicious spirits bent on only on our destruction.

While we take no personal trophies on our own accord, or in our own strength, we rest in the triumph Christ already wrought upon the cross some two thousand years ago. And though it seems like we are insignificant and unwanted in this world (we are), it is only a façade put on by our mortal enemy, Satan, who is still furious that in crucifying the Son of God, he sealed his own fate.

It is at that moment of death, in which, Satan has long delighted in taking those who have not yet claimed the free gift of salvation from Christ that separates our faith from any other. Paul writes that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Cor. 5:8). Instead of meeting sneering demons, who gleefully drag those poor souls into hell below, we know that at our own moment of death, we will be greeted by God’s holy angels, ready to escort us to our heavenly abode (Luke 16:22).

While in our flesh, we might delight in the much-deserved death of the wicked, God does not. He is longsuffering that all might come to salvation, and thus, has delayed Christ’s long-overdue victory lap all these centuries so that one more lost sheep might be brought back into the fold. Thus we contend with this fallen world, and are persecuted, discredited, censored, silenced, belittled, abused, and murdered as those who Christ describes in His parable of the Wedding Feast (Matt. 22).

Although God is longsuffering, His patience is not limitless. At some point (and we think soon), we will arrive at that fullness of times, when the full number of Gentiles are brought into the body of Christ (Rom. 11:25). It is at this point that even we, a generation of believers, will not taste even the bittersweet agony of death, but will instantly, put on immortality, and fly away to meet our loved ones and our Lord in the air (1 Thess. 4:13-18, 1 Cor. 15:51-56).

Lastly, while we don’t fully understand everything going on in the backdrop of our lives, we can trust in our God to be faithful (2 Tim. 2:13). He is faithful because it is His nature to be, and He has promised us that we can trust in His plan of redemption. Therefore, death is not the end for us, but the very beginning, of an infinite, and glorious future (Eph. 2:4-7).

Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day. For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal. 2 Cor. 4:16-18

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Luke 21:34-36
King James Version
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2021%3A34-36&version=KJV

I have wondered if the thief on the cross is the only one in paradise.

Those who hold to the end times rapture scenario assert that the rapture removes Christians to, I presume, some type of paradise. It seems the Christian’s judgment is immediate.

Gabriel blowing his horn followed by the dead being raised is consistent with a theory that at death we go into a “soul sleep” from which we wake up when we hear the horn.

There is Lazarus and the Rich Man — does it teach about paradise and hell — or does it teach (modernizing it) that “they have the New Testament, let them read it!”

All three theories are supported by scripture.
Two comments:
(1) when three rather mutually exclusive theories are presented, how does one distinguish among them while we are still in our earthly bodies? Those who are dying to know the answer will be the first to know the answer.
(2) what difference does it make? This is not a test of fellowship; it is not doctrine for which there is a fork in the road: one way to heaven, the other doom. Now you must CHOOSE!

I generally select #2 since my salvation doesn’t depend on whether I figure this puzzle out. [What! Me Worry?] People have offered scenarios for centuries (maybe).

On the other hand, if I neglect to feed the hungry, etc., being a cheerful giver, etc., taking up my cross... my name might be blotted out of the Lamb’s Book of Life. Our time is best spent DOING Christianity rather than attempting to understand the enigmas of Christianity.

Paul never claimed that.

Romans 6:1-4 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:12-18 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.

Romans 6:15-23 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.

For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

God gives eternal life upon salvation, where we are transferred to the kingdom of Christ and seated with Him in heavenly places. NOW.

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

2 Corinthians 5:4-8 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Ephesians 2:4-7 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

Having had a heart attack at 44 and now being 83 I call B$ on that.

BS on what?

We are all 'programmed' to die, though in our minds (most minds, I guess), we don't want to leave the living world. You are an example of what our DNA dictates. A heart attack means nothing as far as how long we'll live, and what we do during our lives, whether in early or middle or older ages, has nothing to do with the programmed age in our DNA. A very small percentage of humans get beyond 100 years of age and most die before 90.

Our bodies were not designed to go beyond what we now know as 'elderly', and the only reason many make it past 80, is because of medical research and development and medicines that have enabled us to make it that far.

I have known many that never slowed down in their debauchery, but always considered themselves “born again” and waiting for the Rapture Plane to take them away from all their troubles. When I pointed out their lifestyles to them, then they would yell “but I am born again and am waiting for the rapture”, and they continue whatever they were slaves to. “You will know them by their fruits”, I believe is what was said in regards to that. Just because someone says that they are believers, doesn’t make it so. There are many wolves in sheep’s clothing. On the other hand, he said “Judge not, lest ye be judged”, so examination begins with yourself. If one believe that their are no consequences to their actions because of their salvation, then they might very well be the people that he was talking about in Matthew 7:21 “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven.” I believe that it also what he meant in Luke 9:23, when he said “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.” I believe that those ARE the “real” issues that you referred to. We are seeing the last days, as was prophesied in 2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

I feel that too many make the ‘pledge’ to check off as a ‘check box’ for assurance to heaven, and that is what I refer to as fire insurance. Saying “I am a Christian” doesn’t really mean a lot if you don’t really believe it and practice it. Contrary to belief, we will all be judged, as is written. The question is have your sins been forgiven? Paul said to examine yourself daily in 2 Corinthians 13 “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?” I disagree with you that nobody thinks that the rapture is some kind of fire insurance. Based on what I have seen in my old age, many do, and they are the reprobates that Paul was talking about. Many go right on doing whatever they were doing before their salvation. I believe those ARE the real issues that we are facing today. You said that’s a lot of strawmen to knock down, but how can you knock them down by saying “nobody”? If you wish to knock down strawmen, you can quote scripture to do so. I will listen and agree or disagree with you. It is the truth. But your argument is essentially “because I said so”.

All the works that I mentioned are Christian works that follow becoming a Christian. Some are works mentioned in the third parable of Matthew 25.
There was not a hint that I said these works would earn salvation.
You and I both understand that Christian works follow the baptism of believers.
I attempted to select works that only a Christian would do. Being a cheerful giver is another following work of a Christian. Thus, by implication, I chose works that follow the event of becoming a Christian; they do not earn salvation, they result from one’s love toward the Lord.

Let’s think about scriptures that teach that one might lose one’s salvation by failing to do good works.

Parable #3, Matthew 25. These are the sheep that are on the Lord’s right hand, mainly because while they were actively doing works, and the Lord considered those works to be done to HIM. I interpret that to mean that the Lord is not offended, but rather, pleased, when Christians do good works.

There was a second group, the goats, in that parable who were indifferent about doing those Christian works. They failed to do Christian works and they are placed on the left hand of the Lord, condemned and sent to that other place. Failing to do Christian works causes the Lord to take the position that the goats are not doing good works to HIM. Goodbye, Goats!

The second parable of Matthew 25 is also about Christian works. Here, money is given to three servants in proportion to their abilities. Two of the servants double their money and are rewarded. They WORKED! They are REWARDED!
There was one servant, who from fear did not work. The Lord calls him LAZY and WICKED because he didn’t do works that the Lord expected him to do. He learned about outer darkness, weeping and gnashing of teeth.

SO, we have TWO parables that are consistent in teaching that those who did not WORK (after becoming a Christian) were condemned in no uncertain terms.

The first parable of Matthew 25 teaches about two groups of Christians, one group that is prepared, the other unprepared. The main lack of the unprepared is righteousness, which to some extent can be shown by doing Christian works.

As James said, faith without works is DEAD.

Scripture teaches that the Lord will blot our name out of the Lamb’s Book of Life. The theory that one’s name may be blotted out of the Lamb’s Book of Life for failing to work for the Lord is consistent with those two parables.

There are a huge number of works mentioned in the New Testament. Start with the Sermon on the Mount and make a list. It is not a short list.

I have known many that have adopted the attitude that since ‘now I am saved, so I can do anything and it will be forgiven, and I will still get my eternal reward’ mentality. It is literally a license to do anything the flesh desires...

The reality, I believe that there will be many on judgement day who will say, but, but, but, didn’t I call on your name? And He will say, “21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day,”Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!”. Matthew 7 counters the argument very well, I think.

You are 100% correct. I made the same argument. Once saved always saved then means that there is no penalty for future sin and that is certainly a license to sin. Then there are the ridiculous statements that their flesh sins but their spirit doesn’t so even if they did sin it doesn’t matter, or that we are no longer “under the law” so commandment keeping doesn’t apply to them, or it’s impossible to keep God’s law anyway, etc...

One cowardly poster called me a liar for what I just wrote above about no penalty for, and a license to sin. She bore false witness against me. The definition of sin is literally breaking God’s law (dictionary definition...an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law). So, I say again to her and her buddies on this site....if there is a penalty for “born againers” that believe in once saved, always saved, that sin, what is it? She, or one of her friends, actually suggested that the penalty would be a few less jewels in the crown received in heaven. Absolutely ridiculous. If there is no penalty for sin, it means there is a license to sin with impunity. The verses you quoted from Matthew 7 will certainly apply to these people.

And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.

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