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To: MurphsLaw

I challenge you to prove that Peter EVER went to Rome. We know Paul stood trial there twice. “Ignore the FACT that Peter went to Rome to challenge and replace the pagan disease that ruled the world back then with a New Covenant.”, you claim. Prove that claim.
This is why the church practically lies in ruins. Just throwing out traditions, teachings, doctrines of men that can NOT be substantiated by God’s word.
THAT is our final authority, not a church. Truth is hidden under piles of man’s false, fickle, feckless opinions. Ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.


97 posted on 08/05/2021 4:34:33 PM PDT by smvoice (I WILL NOT WEAR THE RIBBON. OR THE MASK)
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To: smvoice

A favorite ploy is to conflate The Church of all born again believers, with the catholic org church, as if they are one and the same. THAT is a demonic lie which gets used here often.


99 posted on 08/05/2021 5:47:57 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: smvoice
Doctrines of men...

LoL...
You follow Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, wycliffe, Henry VII and ALL the other MEN and their doctrines as if they all are on the same page.... If any of them survive 2000 years... the One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church will be 3500 years old.... but I wouldnt hold your breath on that....

OK...SO......if I give you documented evidence of Peter in Rome, evidence of Linus succeeding him as Bishop of Rome- head of the Church as Christ elected him... validating those facts as absolute...

Will you say right now that you will from this point forward- with God as your witness- accept, and no longer deny the Papal Authority and its succession of the earliest Church on planet Earth?
107 posted on 08/05/2021 8:59:47 PM PDT by MurphsLaw (" For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned")
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To: smvoice

You’d better watch it!

I can see a, “Why do you hate Mary?” statement coming your way soon!


127 posted on 08/06/2021 4:50:32 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: smvoice; MurphsLaw
Smvoice -- here's the proof that Peter was in Rome

“How happy is that church . . . where Peter endured a passion like that of the Lord, where Paul was crowned in a death like John’s [referring to John the Baptist, both he and Paul being beheaded].” (Tertullian, The Demurrer Against the Heretics, circa A.D. 200) --> Tertullian in 200 is referring to Rome where Peter and Paul were both martyred

(Letter to the Romans 4:3 [A.D. 110]). --“Not as Peter and Paul did, do I command you [Romans]. They were apostles, and I am a convict"

Dionysis of Corinth - Letter to Pope Soter [A.D. 170], in Eusebius, History of the Church 2:25:8): “You [Pope Soter] have also, by your very admonition, brought together the planting that was made by Peter and Paul at Rome and at Corinth; for both of them alike planted in our Corinth and taught us; and both alike, teaching similarly in Italy, suffered martyrdom at the same time”

Irenaeus

==========

“Matthew also issued among the Hebrews a written Gospel in their own language, while Peter and Paul were evangelizing in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church” (Against Heresies, 3, 1:1 [A.D. 189]).

and

“But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the succession of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church [of Rome], because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition” (ibid., 3, 3, 2).

and

“The blessed apostles [Peter and Paul], having founded and built up the church [of Rome], they handed over the office of the episcopate to Linus. Paul makes mention of this Linus in the letter to Timothy [2 Tim. 4:21]. To him succeeded Anacletus, and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was chosen for the episcopate. He had seen the blessed apostles and was acquainted with them. It might be said that he still heard the echoes of the preaching of the apostles and had their traditions before his eyes. And not only he, for there were many still remaining who had been instructed by the apostles. In the time of Clement, no small dissension having arisen among the brethren in Corinth, the church in Rome sent a very strong letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace and renewing their faith. . . . To this Clement, Evaristus succeeded . . . and now, in the twelfth place after the apostles, the lot of the episcopate [of Rome] has fallen to Eleutherius. In this order, and by the teaching of the apostles handed down in the Church, the preaching of the truth has come down to us” (ibid., 3, 3, 3).

Eusebius of Caesarea

“[In the second] year of the two hundredth and fifth Olympiad [A.D. 42]: The apostle Peter, after he has established the church in Antioch, is sent to Rome, where he remains as a bishop of that city, preaching the gospel for twenty-five years” (The Chronicle [A.D. 303]).

==========

That's more than adequate evidence that Peter WAS in Rome and was martyred in Rome

if you want to deny numerous historical proofs from varied people that Peter was in Rome, you, smvoice, may also then think that Jesus was fictional (btw, that's false as well)

213 posted on 08/12/2021 7:56:48 AM PDT by Cronos ( One cannot desire freedom from the Cross, especially when one is especially chosen for the cross)
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To: smvoice; MurphsLaw
This is why the church practically lies in ruins.

Really? for 2000 years bishops and priests, not to mention external forces have been trying to do that and failing

Why have they failed for 2000 years? Because Christ protects His church. There's no other explanation.

214 posted on 08/12/2021 7:57:39 AM PDT by Cronos ( One cannot desire freedom from the Cross, especially when one is especially chosen for the cross)
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