Well, let me turn your question around and ask you... What saves you - faith or works? Are you saved by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ or are you saved because you try to not sin and be a good and obedient Christian? Are you saved by the blood of Christ who made propitiation for all your sins or do you merit salvation by your manner of life?
This is why I continue to challenge you whenever you claim up and down that salvation is by grace and not works but then in the next sentence you assert a Christian who sins "unrepentantly" cannot be saved! You even take it a step further with your keeping the seventh day sabbath vs. Sunday is "lawlessness" legalism. So, either we are saved by the grace of God THROUGH faith and not works or we are saved by works (e.g., being good, obeying the commandments, etc.).
Until you can settle this question in your mind, it does no good to keep explaining how the indwelling Holy Spirit works through Godly chastisement in a believer's life. You'll keep dishonestly claiming we're saying a Christian can sin with abandon and still go to heaven. Your "gospel" is no different from any other works-based religion and stands accursed.
And to reiterate...NO ONE is saying "Believing ...equates to A LICENSE TO SIN (No penalty)".
While I don't agree with Phillie's position, you keep putting this incorrect example.
You are "saved" by grace in the same way that a drowning man is saved by someone throwing a rescue buoy at him. However the drowning man still has to move towards the buoy and not away from it.
The drowning man was saved by the rescuer but still had to grab the rescue buoy, move towards the rescue buoy and not away.
While YOU have never said or wrote or even indicated that in our years of sparring, that is not true of the people phil initially responded to.
BB, you cannot speak to what other people who disagree with Phil believe.
there is a poster here who believes that Paul had a separate Gospel, that there are two churches - one for gentiles and one for Jews and that Jesus is the Messiah only for the latter.
This is not what you believe in afaik
Philsworld: What’s the penalty if a “saved” Christian sins unrepentantly? You guys say once a person is “saved”, NOTHING will keep them out of heaven. Once saved, always saved, right? So, what’s the penalty for committing lawlessness?
BB to SC: It doesn’t seem to matter how many times we have said we are NOT saying “Christians...have a license to sin without penalty, to commit lawlessness”, they will still lie and say we are.
BB: Well, let me turn your question around and ask you...
No. You called me a liar, so answer the question. What’s the PENALTY if a “saved” Christian sins unrepentantly?
Your side has REPEATEDLY said that a saved person cannot be lost, regardless of committing ANY KNOWN SIN, and being unrepentant. They are STILL GOING TO HEAVEN (The Ravi principle). The flesh can sin, but the Spirit cannot, right?
So, what’s the penalty?