Gordonian knots...
Posted on 08/04/2021 2:19:35 PM PDT by MurphsLaw
The promotion of Biblical interpretations serving secular, liberal political agendas of sex and race is only the latest manifestation of a centuries-old trend.
The Bible makes no explicit condemnations of transgenderism. It makes no claims as to the morality of abortion. It encourages racial reparations. Such claims can be found virtually everywhere in corporate media like the Washington Post, New York Times, or CNN, which seek to promote the various political objectives of the Democratic Party.
During his campaign for president, Episcopalian Pete Buttigieg argued that Jesus never mentioned abortion and that Bible verses censuring homosexuality were culturally conditioned, not eternal truths. The Washington Post, in turn, cites secular academics, who offer Biblical exegesis of a progressivist, feminist, and racial identitarian variety.
Of course, the Bible has always been a political document. The Old Testament was not only a religious and liturgical text but one that had much to say about the governance of the ancient kingdom of Israel. Jesus told his followers to respect and pay taxes to the Roman Empire. St. Paul described the temporal ruler as “God’s servant for your good.” (Romans 13:3-4)
For most of ecclesial history, the primary interpreters of Holy Scripture were not journalists, politicians, or secular academics, but the Catholic Church herself. Most early Church Fathers were priests or bishops. Ecumenical councils like Nicea, Chalcedon, or Lyon made determinations on theology, morality, and the meaning of the Bible.
But beginning in the fourteenth century, scholars like Marsilius of Padua and William of Ockham began questioning the hierarchy’s hold on biblical interpretation. Instead, they proposed, the Bible should be under the authority of scholarly experts supported by secular political authorities. Though it would take several centuries for their ideas to proliferate, this thinking came to fruition in the Reformation and Enlightenment, and inspire trends in scriptural exegesis to this day.
This story is the focus of Scott Hahn’s and Benjamin Wiker’s book, The Decline and Fall of Sacred Scripture: How the Bible Became a Secular Book. Less than three-hundred pages, the book summarizes the central arguments of the authors’ 2012 Politicizing the Bible: The Roots of Historical Criticism and the Secularization of Scripture 1300-1700, which is more than twice the size. This is a welcome development; it makes their important contributions accessible to a larger audience.
While the story begins with Marsilius and Ockham and their Erastian belief in the supremacy of the state over the Church, the reader will encounter many familiar faces. John Wycliffe, esteemed by Protestants as the “Morning Star” of the Reformation, argued that “the pope ought, as he formerly was, to be subject to Caesar.” The monarch would then employ “doctors and worshipers of the divine law” to interpret the Bible. Martin Luther also called for the German princes to wrest ecclesial power away from corrupt bishops and the Roman pontiff, and grant him unequaled interpretive authority. Indeed, Luther asked the prince of Saxony to expel fellow reformer Andreas Bodenstein von Karlstadt because of the latter’s radical teachings. Around the same time, Machiavelli viewed the biblical text as material for furthering secular political ends.
All of these men influenced the court of English King Henry VIII, who recognized that the Reformation offered an opportunity to consolidate his political power. Thus, he pursued the Act of Supremacy in 1534 to grant him “supreme” headship over the Church of England, followed by the dissolution of monasteries, closure of shrines, and seizure of Church wealth. His King’s Book then declared that individuals must be subject to the “particular church” of the region in which they live, and obey the “Christian kings and princes” to whom they are subject.
Other Englishmen would further endorse this thinking. In Leviathan, Thomas Hobbes asserts that there is only “one chief Pastor” who is “according to the law of Nature. . .the civil sovereign.” Hobbes also rejected many of the supernatural elements of Scripture, as well as Heaven and Hell. John Locke, dismayed by the violence and distemper caused by the English Civil War, endorsed a state-controlled church whose most important feature would be “toleration,” since religious sentiments were private matters “of the mind.” For Locke, Jesus was ultimately a political messiah whose teachings focused on the perpetuation of a “civil morality.”
There are many other actors in this torrid tale – Baruch Spinoza, J. Richard Simon, John Toland – but enough is clear from the above to appreciate the consequences of these religio-political trends. Proto-Reformers called for dethroning the Catholic hierarchy’s supremacy over biblical interpretation. The Reformers, relying on princes and kings, put that wish into practice. And political philosophers and state-sanctioned scholars normalized it. Wherever the Catholic Church ceased to exert ecclesial authority, the state took up the reins.
There has always been this tension between Church and state. St. Ambrose excommunicated the emperor Theodosius because of his execution of 7,000 citizens of Thessalonica. Pope Gregory VII excommunicated the Holy Roman Emperor Henry IV because of a dispute over investiture. And Thomas Becket’s resistance to English King Henry II’s attempts to control the Church resulted in his murder at Canterbury Cathedral.
There is actually something healthy about this tension: when the state and the Church both operate strong spheres of power and influence, they serve as checks upon one another. Kings and governments cannot pursue any policy without risking moral condemnation from ecclesial leadership that will undermine their popular support. And Church corruption and nepotism can be used by secular authorities eager to usurp power.
Hahn’s and Wiker’s history tracks the growing imbalance in favor of the state, a disparity whose roots can be traced back to the late Medieval period. The ubiquitous promotion of Biblical interpretations that serve secular, liberal political agendas related to sex and race is only the latest manifestation of this centuries-old trend. To reverse it requires a return to a more ancient understanding that the Bible is, before all else, the book of the Church, rather than the state or its acolytes in the media or the academy. Catholics need to support and celebrate churchmen who appreciate and seek to realize that essential mission.
But when we are born again into the family of Almighty God, we are saved from the penalty for sin because of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. We can’t become UN-born again.
But you can waste that precious gift from God by reverting back into the UN-born lifestyle that you were saved from in the first place. Paul and John make that CRYSTAL clear. That’s called NOT BEING FAITHFUL to the Bridegroom. Nothing that defiles will enter heaven. (crystal clear)
highly relevant — 1215 and 1500 were nearly 3 centuries apart.
It’s like you arguing about the Indian wars in context of the Gulf war.
Well; some things are alluded to here...
...and HERE...Revelation 20:11-12"Then I saw a great White Throne and him who was seated on it.Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED.Another book was opened WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE.The dead were judged according to their works as recorded in the books.
1 Corinthians 3:8-15 kjv8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
The dead were judged according to their works as recorded in the books.
None of that affects born againers...they get a free pass for unrepentant sin. NO PENALTY. Once saved, always saved. Can’t take it away from them. They can’t be UN-born. Their reward might mean that they get a few less jewels in their crown, BUT THEY ARE STILL GOING TO HEAVEN. Clear biblical teachings mean nothing (same for the pre tribulation rapture).
Irrelevant, for once again you avoid the fact that it is your assertion that is the point being refuted, that "the first protesters and reformatters were in the 1500s" when besides distinctive Catholic teachings not being manifest in the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed and (as even affirmed within Catholicism), the Old Testament as received by Protestants is the same as the ancient Palestinian canon, then as substatiated, there were schisms preceding the needed Reformation. EOs themselves assert such charges as,
Roman Catholicism, unable to show a continuity of faith and in order to justify new doctrine, erected in the last century, a theory of "doctrinal development....On this basis, theories such as the dogmas of "papal infallibility" and "the immaculate conception" of the Virgin Mary (about which we will say more) are justifiably presented to the Faithful as necessary to their salvation. - http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/reading/ortho_cath.html
The Orthodox Church opposes the Roman doctrines of universal papal jurisdiction, papal infallibility, purgatory, and the Immaculate Conception precisely because they are untraditional." - Orthodox apologist and author Clark Carlton: THE WAY: What Every Protestant Should Know About the Orthodox Church, 1997, p 135. And whose OT canon is slightly larger than that of Rome.
Thus the record of your false charges only grows.
Somehow the Truth that we have a spirit, a soul / behavior mechanism of mind will and emotion- and a physical body is unacceptable to fit the twisting of scripture which is required to support their cult. With the born from above the spirit CANNOT sin because God's Spirit is abiding therein. The soul on the other hand will continue to sin, for which God has made provision with our Great High Priest.
But it is a mystery to the cultist that Jesus paid the SPIRITUAL price for sin, not the soulish price for sin. That latter price we cannot escape in this life for sin has consequences. But HE is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanses us when our SOUL confesses our sin. It is as if the cultist have avoided Hebrews 10 like a cobra in the grass.
Because of course the One True Religion was bound to completely disappear within three hundred years and have to be restored scientifically hundreds of years later by theological archeologists and paleontologists.
At least the Landmark Baptists claim to go all the way back, as silly as that is.
When JESUS established His Church, He established a Spiritual entity originating with the Holy Spirit who abides in the psirit of every member of That Spiritual entity, not the orgs we focus upon today. That spiritual entity has remained and been growing for 2000 years, despite the blasphemies and heresies of men who create orgs claiming they represent the One True Church. Only the SPIRITUAL entity Jesus established is The One True Church, and it is not an org of any stripe.
Indeed, but we also know what "believe" means as regarding saving faith, which is that it effects characteristic obedience by the Spirit, and repentance after conviction of not doing so. As Luther and others themselves stated, faith is a living and an essential thing, which makes a new creature of man, changes his spirit... Faith cannot help doing good works constantly... if faith be true, it will break forth and bear fruit... where there is no faith there also can be no good works; and conversely, that there is no faith.. where there are no good works. Therefore faith and good works should be so closely joined together that the essence of the entire Christian life consists in both. if obedience and God's commandments do not dominate you, then the work is not right, but damnable, surely the devil's own doings, although it were even so great a work as to raise the dead... if you continue in pride and lewdness, in greed and anger, and yet talk much of faith, St. Paul will come and say, 1 Cor. 4:20, look here my dear Sir, "the kingdom of God is not in word but in power." It requires life and action, and is not brought about by mere talk. Works are necessary for salvation, but they do not cause salvation... faith casts itself on God, and breaks forth and becomes certain through its works... faith must be exercised, worked and polished; be purified by fire... it is impossible for him who believes in Christ, as a just Savior, not to love and to do good. If, however, he does not do good nor love, it is sure that faith is not present... where the works are absent, there is also no Christ... References and more by God's grace: http://peacebyjesus.net/Reformation_faith_works.html
Thus the actual debate with Catholics is that justification is by effectual faith being counted/imputed for righteousness, or on the basis of actually being made righteous, which leads to RC Purgatory in order to atone for venial sins that one did not sufficiently make expiation for on earth and actually become good enough to be with God. And such reactionary emphasis on merit such as by Trent', whereby the good works of the one justified merits the attainment of eternal life itself, being accounted to have, truly merited eternal life, coupled with man's natural tendency to see himself as meriting Heaven, or least not bad enough for Hell, results in most believing that they will end up in Heaven because they are pretty good, at least compared to their neighbors. To their eternal horror.
It is true that being saved by by grace, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5) does not mean man is passively regenerated as if this happens in his sleep, nor by inert faith, yet neither it is due to any merit of response. But that instead in conversion and in life God both motivates and enables man to do what he otherwise could not and would not do, and justifies the same by effectual faith.
For in Scripture we see that the lost damned+destitute sinner (1. Romans 3:10 )is drawn to God, (2. Jn. 6:44) whose heart the Lord opens, (3. Acts 16:14) and is granted repentant faith unto life. (4. Acts 11:18) With this regenerating heart-purifying God-given gift of faith (5,6,7,8. Acts 10:43; Ephesians 2:5; Acts 15:7-9) making him a new creation, (9. 2 Corinthians 5:17) and being imputed for righteousness, (10. Romans 4:4-5) and "accepted in the Beloved" on His account, and positionally seated with Him in Heaven, (11. Ephesians 1:6. 2:6) having immediate access into the holy of holies in Heaven by the sinless shed blood of Christ, (12. Hebrews 10:19) and to whom those of living effectual faith ill directly go to be forever with at death or at His returned, whatever comes first. (13. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 cf. Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8
And in which believers the Holy Spirit dwells, striving against the flesh (14. Galatians 5:17; James 4:5) and motivating the redeemed both to will and to do the will of God. (15. Philippians 2:13) And yet which "obedience of faith" testifies and justifies one as being of justifying faith, (16,17. Hebrews 6:9.10; 1 Thessalonians 1:3-4) and which faith God rewards, (18. Hebrews 10:35) even though since all good if a gift of God (19. Hebrews 10:35) the only thing man can take credit for - and must - is that of resisting God. (20. Nehemiah 9:33)
And since man is justified by living, effectual faith which Abraham had, (21. Hebrews 11:17) and which effects characteristic obedience (1 Jn. 5:13) by the Spirit (22. Romans 8:14) - and which includes repentance when convicted by conscience of not doing so (23. 2 Corinthians 7:10-11; 1 John 1:8-9) - versus a faith that is alone, as meaning being of no positive effect in heart and life, (24. James 2:17ff) and that which is contrary to it - and which includes believing a false gospel, such as that one is actually saved by obedience, by merit, versus the faith that is behind this effect - then the Spirit many time warns believers, as believers, against developing an "evil heart of unbelief in departing from living God," from the faith they once held, falling from grace, making Christ of no effect, to no profit, drawing back to perdition," yielding to pressure to deny the faith after conversion so that Paul's labor would be in vain, (25. Gal. 5:1-5; Heb. 3:12014; 10:25-31, 38-39; 1 Thessalonians 3:5) Which is corespondent to the "great transgression" with its presumption which David warned of, (26. Psalms 19:13) wickedly departing from God, (27. 2 Samuel 22:22) which he did not finally do, being the sin unto death. (1 John 5:16-17)
1. As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (Romans 3:10)
2. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:44)
3. And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. (Acts 16:14)
4. When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. (Acts 11:18)
5. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins....Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? (Acts 10:43,47)
6. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) (Ephesians 2:5)
7. And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. (Acts 15:7-9)
8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)
9. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2 Corinthians 5:17)Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
10. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Romans 4:4-5)
11. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. (Ephesians 1:6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: (Ephesians 2:6)
12. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, (Hebrews 10:19)
13. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:17; cf. Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8)
14. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. (Galatians 5:17) Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? (James 4:5)
15. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. (Philippians 2:13)
But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. (Hebrews 6:9-10)
17. Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father; Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. (1 Thessalonians 1:3-4)
18. Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. (Hebrews 10:35)
19. For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it? (1 Corinthians 4:7)
20. Howbeit thou art just in all that is brought upon us; for thou hast done right, but we have done wickedly: (Nehemiah 9:33)
21. By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, (Hebrews 11:17)
22. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. (Romans 8:14)
23. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter. (2 Corinthians 7:10-11) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:8-9)
24.>Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. (James 2:17)
25. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. (Galatians 5:2-5)
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; (Hebrews 3:12-14)
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Hebrews 10:25-31) Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. (Hebrews 10:38-39)
For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain. (1 Thessalonians 3:5)
26. Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression. (Psalms 19:13)
27. For I have kept the ways of the Lord, and have not wickedly departed from my God. (2 Samuel 22:22)
28. If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. (1 John 5:16-17)
However, as shown in past contention here, obedience by the Spirit is "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord," (Jeremiah 31:32; cf. Hebrews 8:9) but under the New, in which the literal observance of typological laws are abrogated, but not the intent of such: "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:3-4)
The issue is how your beliefs line up with the the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed.
--Catholic_Wannabe_Dude(Oh heavenly apparition - when wilts thou yet again appear?)
(Given to St. Dominic and Blessed Alan de la Roche)
| 1 | Whoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall receive powerful graces. |
| 2. | I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary. |
| 3. | The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies |
| 4. | It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of people from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means. |
| 5. | The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish. |
| 6. | Whoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying Himself to the consideration of its Sacred Mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise Him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just, he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of eternal life. |
| 7. | Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church. |
| 8. | Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plentitude of His graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the merits of the Saints in Paradise. |
| 9. | I shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary. |
| 10. | The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven. |
| 11. | You shall obtain all you ask of me by the recitation of the Rosary. |
| 12. | All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities. |
| 13. | I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire celestial court during their life and at the hour of death |
| 14. | All who recite the Rosary are my children, and brothers and sisters of my only Son, Jesus Christ. |
| 15. | Devotion of my Rosary is a great sign of predestination. |
"The Most Holy Virgin in these last times in which we live has given a new efficacy to the recitation of the Rosary to such an extent that there is no problem,
no matter how difficult it is, wheter temporal or above all spiritual, in the personal life of each one of us, of our families...that cannot be solved by the Rosary.
There is no problem, I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary."
Sister Lucia dos Santos
Romanish 8:3-4 Bwahahahaha, nailed it!
Excellent, MHG. To me it seems as if the grief brought on by sinning of a saved person is not understood by some claiming the new birth. I’ve never known a Christian who did NOT understand the anxiety, depression, tears, regret, etc., that come upon a Christian who sins. I have no explanation for their experiencing nothing when they sin.
Excellent, MHG. To me it seems as if the grief brought on by sinning of a saved person is not understood by some claiming the new birth. I’ve never known a Christian who did NOT understand the anxiety, depression, tears, regret, etc., that come upon a Christian who sins. I have no explanation for their experiencing nothing when they sin.
And as you well know, that, as well as even one prayer to anyone else in Heaven by believers is utterly absent in Scripture despite over 200 prayers recorded by the Holy Spirit. But Catholics do have this support: "We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her." (Jeremiah 44:25)
Indeed! I get the impression that they don't have very much confidence in the Holy Spirit who works within the child of God to bring them to repentance, sorrow for their sins, the impetus to live holy lives pleasing to God, acceptance of the chastening of the Father and maturing their faith so that in all they do they do to the glory of God who saves us by His grace and NOT because of what we do for Him.
Do you think maybe they are afraid their sinful nature will exert control and they distrust themselves to fully accept what GRACE really means? They probably have never experienced the TRUE working of the Holy Spirit in their life else they would understand with their heart, and be converted, and He should heal them.
Agreed! But for some reason the few here who strive against the truth of the gospel - which is salvation by grace through faith and not by works whether to gain eternal life or keep it - allow their carnal human pride to creep in try to turn the gift of God into something that must be deserved or merited. That’s an error that ALL religions have in common. It’s thinking that God’s gift can be bought.
‘It’ is a satanic strategy ... ONLY Jesus is due the glory for our being born from above in unmerited favor from God. When folks allow the lie of ‘earning the right to eternal life’ to enter their calculus it detracts from the glory due ONLY to Jesus our Lord and Savior. If you get the chance ot talk it out with ‘them’ they know they cannot save themselves, but making the step further that ONLY Jesus is due the glory for our ETERNAL salvation is a step too far. Perhaps because of deeply seated human pride. I just don’t know yet.
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