Replies

- for the truth to get through your Catholic wall?

Is this the same wall kind of wall that show you countless citations from earlist Church fathers and their writings for Infant Baptism- and its methods that have been used by the Church since the BEGINNING - and you still deny them?
Is this the kind of wall you speak of?

I don't ignore you John 6 verses- they do not prove or validate Faith ALONE… and that was your task - and that's what I have asked from you and you tap dance around and not provided me the clarity of a here-here…

You want John 6 really? John in particular...oooh could be some hard sayinsg... but if that's the "hill" you want to be saved on - lets havaluke.

By your isolating scripture verse logic then- I can have EVERlasting life BY EATING….. I don't have to “believe” anything…

+++ 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever.

53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, UNLESS you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

+++ So am I saved by Eucharist ALONE Then? That is ALL is commanded by the Lord…or then do you wonder… Do you have NOT Life in you then if you disbelieve this? as Jesus says. Or do we dismiss the Lord's command here? Or are you suggesting that Christ is contradicting himself here? Or does he mean we have to ‘believe” AND eat his flesh- for everlasting Life? Perhaps… but there is no Sola in that.

Do you know how many ways the Bible says we are saved??? No time for that now… but Faith ALONE does not fit – unless you wish to be accused with denying “the actual words from Jesus saying believe and be saved - for the truth to get through your ~~Catholic~~ DIY religion wall?

I would like your take there for sue… but onto wordsmithing.. and “believe” or “believing” – and just what that means to us… Steve Ray calls “believe” a “pregnant” word. It has many meanings and contexts – especially in scripture. Not enough time to go into that but I came across a verse that has some value for both of us.

+++If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; 38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”

Is belief in Christ Works sufficient? Now in another verse Belief is usually mis-translated and should be considered- John 3:36

36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever adisobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure God's wrath.

We can clearly see JOHN has some idea that obedience is a component of “believe”… Belief therefore- clearly- can not be a singular ideal of intellectual acceptance…it must be more…again the pregnant word thing…

Besides … the Bible CLEARLY states “believe” is not a full measure of Faith.. and is clearly insuff. icient as we see it can be demons that “believe” in Christ…..

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! EVEN the demons believe that—and shudder. 20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]?

Even the demon Christ cleansed of the man believed who Christ was – “And suddenly they cried out, saying, “What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”

Clearly we agree, demons will not be saved...
I'm out of time… there's much more… let me know your thoughts on this….

Faith alone in Christ alone saves as in being Justified by the Only One Who can do it. And Jesus told you believe in Him is the ONLY way to receive eternal life. Jesus even analogized it with the snake in the desert, so it would be so simple even a catholic should be able to see it.

There are two more azpects to salvation that are not Justification. The second phase of Salvation by His abiding Spirit is called sanctification. This Saving from the power of sin in your life. It is not justification because ONLY GOD can jsutify and He has chosen to do that entirely based upon believing in Whom He sent for Justifying a sinner.

The reason sanctification is not justification is a concept a works based religion like Catholicism cannot comprehend: by Justifying me because of faith alone in Christ alone assigns ALL the glory to The Lord Jesus and none to you. Since you are not Christ, your salvation from the power of sin is a process GOD expects you to be intimately involved with, because His abiding presence in your separated from your soul SPIRIT must learn to exhibit the character of God's family. There is no thing you can do or fail to do in the sanctification process which will chnge the status GOD by His Grace gave you -membership in His family via The belief in Christ alone for saving you from the penalty of sin which draped your spirit BEFORE GOD justified you in the way that brings glory ONLY to Christ.

There is a third salvation coming which will remove me from the 4D realm where the man of sin is going to reign for seven years. I am a member of the Family of God with His Hooly Spirit abiding in my born again spirit, so He is going to remove me from this realm before the beginning of the reign of the man of sin. This is salvation from the presence of the man of sin. God will do this by in the twinkling of an eye transforming me into a being like Jesus is now, because as John wrote in 1 John 3:2 I will be able to see Him as He is because in that moment I will be like Him, in a glorified body.

So let's review: Only God can justify me before His Righteous eyes, and God has chosen to do this in such a way that ONLY Jesus is glorified in my being justified. A second phase of my salvation is what is known as the sanctification phase, where God expects me to leran how to live inthe character of His family members. A third phase of my salvation is when He transforms me int he twinkling of an eye, to be in a glorified, higher dimensional coordiante system where Jesus is now and return tot he Father's House with Jesus (John 14).

I know it is shocking for you, but there is ONLY one function which activates God Justifying you as if you have never sinned, BELIEF, Faithe, trust in Christ alone by faith alone. After that moment of justification, God expects me to accept the guidance of His abiding presence and get saved from the power of sin that directed my livng before He birthed me from above.

Try it ... you'll like! Justified = saved from the penalty of sin; sanctification = saved from the power of sin ; glorified = saved from the presence of the man of sin in this 4D realm.

One last clue: when God justifies you, He will separate your sou and s[irit so that as He abides in your born again spirit His Spirit is not in contact with sin, sin which is sourced int he soul you inherited from Adam.(Heb 4:12 & Rev 1:16)

---but Faith ALONE does not fit –

Sigh...

Too bad that JESUS did not indicate this...

John 6:28-40
²⁸Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
²⁹Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
³⁰So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? ³¹Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’^[c]”
³²Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. ³³For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
³⁴“Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
³⁵Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. ³⁶But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe . ³⁷All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. ³⁸For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. ³⁹And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. ⁴⁰For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believe in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”