Posted on 01/31/2021 2:46:43 PM PST by Jan_Sobieski
Ephraim wrote that
That doesn't sound at ALL like your 19th century rapture fantasy
When the Roman Empire begins to be consumed by the sword, the coming of the Evil One is at hand. It is necessary that the world come to an end at the completion of the Roman Empire.
In those days two brothers will come to the Roman Empire who will rule with one mind; but because one will surpass the other, there will be a schism between them. And so the Adversary will be loosed and will stir up hatred between the Persian and Roman empires. In those days many will rise up against Rome; the Jewish people will be her adversaries
Ditto for Cyprian
And as to Tertullian have you even read that????
Tertullian wrote that The Goths wil lconquer Rome and redeem the Christians; but then Nero will come back from teh dead, appear as the heathen AntiChrist, reconquer Rome and rage agianst the Christians 3.5 years. he will then be conquered in turn by the Jewish REAL anti-Christ from the East who will return to Judea, perform false miracles and be worshiped by the Jews. At last Christ appears with the lost Twelve tribes as him army, which had lived beyond Persia in happy simplicity and virtue. he will conquer the Jewish antichrist and his host, convert all nations and take possession of the holy city of Jerusalem
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Just saying that Ephraim or Tertullian wrote about something when those writings have absolutely NOTHING in common with your 19th century rapture is nonsensical
Jesus did not teach the rapture in any way
Luke 21 is talking about the 2nd coming, not a 2 stage second coming.
1 Thess 4:16 — “with a shout” and “a trumpet” — that’s not a silent rapture. in fact 1 Thess disproves your pre-trib rapture
As to the ludicrous idea of "meeting believers in the air"
Rapturists make the mistake of thinking "meet the Lord in the air" is about Christ not actually touching the earth.
The word St. Paul uses for meeting the Lord "in the air" is aer the Greek word for atmosphere
This SAME word is used in Ephesians 2:2
And you [a]were dead [b]in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the [c]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.yet no one would claim that, because of this word, Satan wouldn't influence people on the earth
A consistent rapturist reading of this wod here would mean that only airplane passengers are influenced by Satan's power
NO, when Christ returns to the earth's atmosphere, He has returned to earth
Rapturists trying to point to the "coming in the clouds" -- but this ignores the symbol of divinity in the clouds
The Bible uses three Greek words interchangeably
Rapturists think that there is a different usage for each, but that is false - parousia is not used just for some fake "rapture" and the others for the 2nd coming
Paul doesn't mention this 19th century rapture idea as occuring before the appearance of the antichrist and before the second coming is simple: it never entered into his mind that anyone would believe Christ would rapture His Church before the final Eschaton
In the apocalypse, that is referred to as the battle with Gog and Magog, Christians will participate in that confrontation because there will be no secret rapture before it. Our comfort rests in Him who will emerge from that confrontation as the Victor.
THAT is the reassurance Paul offers, not the promise of an escape from the great Tribulation.
Matthew 24, straight from Jesus:
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved....
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be....
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory....
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
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As in the days of Noah. Who was “taken” during the time of Noah. Who will be “taken” when Christ returns?
Also note the chronology of the tribulation vs. the prophecy of those “taken”.
It would help you, perhaps, to look up the Pseudo-Ephraim, written as a sermon between 400 and 600 which addresses the Pre-Tribulation Rapture of The Body of Christ. Perhaps that FACT would stop this obsession you have over Darby. Perhaps ... but not likely since yours is an obsession sourced in a demonic agenda.
The Parable was given to the Jewish disciples regarding their question over Israel not The Body of Christ made up of Jews and Gentiles no longer under the law because their spirits have been Born Again through the blood of The Christ.
Sorry Cronos, but I won’t be accepting any opinions from the unsaved about God’s Word.
“ But a natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
I do wish you salvation before it’s too late.
Repent, believe, be baptised, eat of My body and endure to the end
Since you don't do that, you haven't accepted His freely given salvation.
Furthermore, you compound it by denying Jesus' very words that the temple would be destroyed in the lifetime of the generation listening to Him.
Why do you keep denying Christ?
you remain the sensual man thinking only of earthly things -- 1 corinthians talks about you as the sensual man
Now we have received not the spirit of this world, but the Spirit that is of God; that we may know the things that are given us from God. [13] Which things also we speak, not in the learned words of human wisdom; but in the doctrine of the Spirit, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. [14] But the sensual man perceiveth not these things that are of the Spirit of God; for it is foolishness to him, and he cannot understand, because it is spiritually examined. [15] But the spiritual man judgeth all things; and he himself is judged of no man.I do wish you stop denying Christ
you do know "pseudo" means not genuine, spurious or a scam?
That's a good definition of the 19th century pre-triublation rapture philosophy - a demonic spurious scam
here;s what it says
So this is what you rapturists believe?
MHGinTn's rapture belief as encapsulated in pseudo-Ephraim - When the Roman Empire begins to be consumed by the sword, the coming of the Evil One is at hand. It is necessary that the world come to an end at the completion of the Roman Empire.
In those days two brothers will come to the Roman Empire who will rule with one mind; but because one will surpass the other, there will be a schism between them. And so the Adversary will be loosed and will stir up hatred between the Persian and Roman empires. In those days many will rise up against Rome; the Jewish people will be her adversaries
Youy are trying to lie your way out of reading FACTS. In that epoch many writers would use the name of a famous (locally famous at least) writer when delivering a message. The Pseudo-Ephrain is a genuine 4 to 600 document that refutes your spurios spittle.
Like all of satan’s liars, you left out the portion which addresses the pre-trib departure ... and the document ioriginated between 400 and 600 AD.
Acts 1:9-13 describe exactly how Yeshua will return; were they lying? Did they fail to mention some secret return?
This Rapture wasn't even mentioned anywhere in religious writings until the early 1800's - no church father wrote anything about it, if they did it would have been heralded down through the centuries.
Exactly. All the verses describing or used to prove this Rapture come after those talking about the 2nd Coming. I attended a four hour lecture on this Rapture thing and part of it was that no church father/leader down through the centuries mentioned anything about a so-called Rapture. The whole idea didn’t show up or claimed until the early 1800’s.
When the Roman Empire begins to be consumed by the sword, the coming of the Evil One is at hand. It is necessary that the world come to an end at the completion of the Roman Empire.you said you believe this in pseudo -ephraim as your rapture, right?
In those days two brothers will come to the Roman Empire who will rule with one mind; but because one will surpass the other, there will be a schism between them. And so the Adversary will be loosed and will stir up hatred between the Persian and Roman empires. In those days many will rise up against Rome; the Jewish people will be her adversaries
No Church father, nothing until the 1800s when Darby decided to scare people into joining his rapture cult. What better way to scare them?
I don’t have the materials handy write now but it all started with a vision of a fifteen yo Scottish girl who had a dream/vision and wrote it down; this was around 1790’s or so. Her name was Margret MacDonald, She wrote this down and years later John Darby saw it. It’s a bit involved but he somehow came in contact with Ellen G White the founder of the Seventh Day Adventists (lots of stuff happened there) from Darby came Scofield who advanced the theory and came out with his reference bible also known as the Rapture Bible. Read:http://openingtheseals.com/appendix/margaret-macdonald-the-origin-of-the-rapture/
The Conclusion from the Thomas Ice paperThe quote from the Ephraim sermon is included in the paper:
Regardless of what else the writer of this sermon believed, he did believe that all believers would be removed before the tribulation–a pretrib rapture view. Thus, we have seen that those who have said that there was no one before 1830 who taught the pre-trib rapture position will have to revise their statements by well over 1,000 years. This statement does not prove the pre-trib position, only the Bible can do that, but it should change many people's historical views on the matter.
Bovine scatology
Please note #78. Stop helping satan’s worker try to confuse the people.
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