Posted on 11/20/2020 6:19:59 AM PST by Teleios Research
Be convinced with these 4 biblical truths: 1. Each of us has sinned; 2. God is just, requiring a punishment for sin; 3. But out of love God sent His Son, Jesus Christ who by dying on the cross, provided forgiveness of sins in taking man’s deserved punishment; 4. Therefore, by faith alone in Christ’s sacrifice for our sins and belief in His resurrection, man can gain eternal life. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 10:9-10, Romans 3:21-26) Read more at https://teleiosresearch.com/salvation-explanation/.
You didn’t answer the question? So you reject that God gave us free will to accept or reject God?
The Catholic church does not reject that we have free will.
Grace preserves an inner relation to a supernatural activity, because it does not impart to the soul the act but rather the disposition to perform supernatural and meritorious acts; therefore grace is remotely and immediately a disposition to act.
Everything that we have has been given to us by God. We can accept God’s graces or we can reject them.
My belief is that too many reject God and His Truth by following man’s truth. Our pride in what we want to believe overrides what Jesus taught us. We can always repent and accept God’s Truth before we die. Jesus has Great Mercy if we are heartily sorry for offending Him.
I don’t see how the Canons of the Council of Orange support your assertions.
Then, you should read the Council of Trent.
Canon 4.
If anyone says that man’s free will moved and aroused by God, by assenting to God’s call and action, in no way cooperates toward disposing and preparing itself to obtain the grace of justification, that it cannot refuse its assent if it wishes, but that, as something inanimate, it does nothing whatever and is merely passive, let him be anathema.
Canon 5.
If anyone says that after the sin of Adam man’s free will was lost and destroyed, or that it is a thing only in name, indeed a name without a reality, a fiction introduced into the Church by Satan, let him be anathema.
Canon 6.
If anyone says that it is not in man’s power to make his ways evil, but that the works that are evil as well as those that are good God produces, not permissively only but also propria et per se, so that the treason of Judas is no less His own proper work than the vocation of St. Paul, let him be anathema.
Canon 9.
If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone,[114] meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema.
Canon 18.
If anyone says that the commandments of God are, even for one that is justified and constituted in grace,[121] impossible to observe, let him be anathema.
Canon 19.
If anyone says that nothing besides faith is commanded in the Gospel, that other things are indifferent, neither commanded nor forbidden, but free; or that the ten commandments in no way pertain to Christians, let him be anathema.
Canon 27.
If anyone says that there is no mortal sin except that of unbelief,[129] or that grace once received is not lost through any other sin however grievous and enormous except by that of unbelief, let him be anathema.
From Dei Verbum
6. Through divine revelation, God chose to show forth and communicate Himself and the eternal decisions of His will regarding the salvation of men. That is to say, He chose to share with them those divine treasures which totally transcend the understanding of the human mind.
It is. Habitually.
Yes, soul can choose to sin, (Gn. 4:7) and do, but no one can come to God unless drawn by Him, (Jn. 6:44) and granted repentance unto life (Acts 11:18) by Him who convicts of sin, (Jn. 16:8) and opens hearts, and gives heart-purifying regenerating faith. (Eph. 2:8,9; Acts 10:43; 15:7-9) And who works to chasten wayward believers unto repentance so they will not be condemned with the world, (1 Co. 11:32) and warns the same against departing from the faith. (Heb. 3:12; 10:25-39; Gal. 5:1-4)
Which effectual faith is imputed for righteousness, (Rm. 4:5) and is set in contrast to any system of justification on the basis of meriting salvation and or actually becoming good enough to be with God. (Galatians 3:21; Titus 3:5) Which is what your Roman false gospel effectively teaches.
As Jesus told us in John 6:53 “unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;” (Eucharist -eternal life).
Thus the question must be asked again and which RCs like yourself refuse to answer, which is if taking part in the Lord's supper is essential to obtain spiritual life, just as other "verily, verily" statements such as Jn. 3:3 are, then how can faithful Prots who reject Catholic transubstantiation be part of the body of Christ?
But contrary to the Catholic contrivance of the Lord's supper (see link), nowhere in the only wholly inspired-of-God and substantive record of what the NT church believed, which is Acts thru Revelation (which best shows how they understood the OT and the gospels) is the Lord's supper described as spiritual food, and the means of obtaining spiritual life in oneself. Instead, and consistent with the metaphorical use of eating and drinking, the word of God is what is called spiritual "milk," (1Co. 3:22; 1Pt. 1:22) and "meat," (Heb. 5:12-14) what is said to "nourish" the souls of believers, and believing it is how the lost obtain life in themselves. (1 Timothy 4:6; Acts 15:7-9; cf. Psalms 19:7) Thus the primary active function of pastors is preaching, (1 Timothy 4:2) by which they “feed the flock” (Acts 20:28; 1Pt. 5:2)
Let me add some additional comments.
I believe that Jesus is very concerned and upset at the level of sin in the world through private revelations. Jesus has indicated that He would provide an “enlightenment” that we may see our souls. and if people do not repent their sinful ways, then a chastisement.
I see great sinfulness by Catholics and that many Cardinals, Bishops and priests are leading some Catholics to their perdition. Some issues: abortion, adultery, same sex, pride, God’s commandments and not following His teachings.
I see many false teachers that make false promises and erroneous teachings that Christ did not make, yet many do not enter the narrow gate and the way hard. Matthew 7:13-14 “Those that find it are few.”
As the Blessed Mother of God requested, I pray daily for the conversion of sinners.
You are assigning human attributes to God. God is not "concerned" or "upset". Things are happening just as He so willed it to be. He doesn't get concerned about anything nor does He get upset. He might in His holiness regret the course that events must take to accomplish His will. But He is willing for it to take this course even to the death of His Son so that some whom He has foreknown and predestined obtain eternal life and to join Him.
We pray for the conversion of sinners just as Noah preached to a world where he knew only eight would be saved. We don't know if God's mercy will extend to others or if He will come back tomorrow. We don't do so because the "Blessed Mother" requested, but because God tells us to. It is good for us to have the same compassion for others as God has for us and prayer is a way to help us develop compassion.
1 Samuel 12:23 Furthermore, as for me, far be it from me that I would sin against the Lord by ceasing to pray for you; but I will instruct you in the good and right way.
Except for Mary, by Catholic teaching.
However, to address your question, we cannot have free will for several reasons. For one thing, we are not totally free agents in the same way God is. We are constrained by our circumstances and time and space.
Another is that we have a sin nature that has a really annoying propensity to sin, to the point that Paul tells us that we are slaves to sin.
Romans 6:12-20 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.
I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
John 8:34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin.
Galatians 4:8-9 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?
1 Timothy 2:24-26 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.
Another is that man cannot come to God without the leading and drawing of the Holy Spirit.
John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
If a person truly had *free will* then he would not need the Holy Spirit to draw him to Jesus.
Men have a will, for sure, but it is NOT free.
A gift is, by its very nature, something that you are given that you did not have to earn or pay for.
The minute money or work is involved it ceases to be a gift.
So, the Council of Trent nullifies the Council of Orange? Interesting.
Now why would they go and do that?
I don't understand the relevance to my question of gift vs free gift grammatically; it's redundant to say free gift since the word gift inherently means it's free - here's a gift, no charge?
Righteousness is a gift because we are made righteous in Christ apart from circumcision and observance of the Torah. Forgiveness is an essential part of justification.
“So it will be at the close of the age.The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous.” Matthew 13:49
Through graces given freely by God one can accept God or reject God.
.
Christ’s death and resurrection merited justification for all. We accept and receive justification through Baptism and becoming friends of God. We can lose that friendship through mortal sin and regain the friendship through the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Confession).
Your question: “Thus the question must be asked again and which RCs like yourself refuse to answer, which is if taking part in the Lord’s supper is essential to obtain spiritual life, just as other “verily, verily” statements such as Jn. 3:3 are, then how can faithful Prots who reject Catholic transubstantiation be part of the body of Christ?”
I question if there are faithful protestants (you are entitled to believe what you want) as I believe that protestants are not following Christ’s teachings but the opinions of man. The words of Jesus is clearly stated in John 6 and the readings about the Last Supper. Jesus shared the Eucharist at Emmaus (Luke 24:30).
I do believe in the great Mercy of Jesus. It s Christ that will pass judgement when we die. I am also concerned that many Catholics (including some in leadership) are not following Christ’s teachings. We should not leave Christ’s Church because of sinners. As Jesus told us “For I came not to call the righteous, but the sinners.” Matthew 9:13I believe that Christ will be a just judge.
Jesus gave us the Sacraments of Baptism, Eucharist and Confession through His Catholic Church as necessary for our salvation.
The Catholic Church teaches:
Christ asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism and affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church. Mark 16:15 and John 3:5 Matthew 12:30 and 18:17
“Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it” (CCC here quotes The Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, “Lumen Gentium,” 14, from the documents of Vatican II).
Ignatius of Antioch
“I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ . . . and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible” (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).
Irenaeus
“If the Lord were from other than the Father, how could he rightly take bread, which is of the same creation as our own, and confess it to be his body and affirm that the mixture in the cup is his blood?” (Against Heresies 4:33–32 [A.D. 189]).
https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-real-presence
Priests act especially in the person of Christ as ministers of holy things, particularly in the Sacrifice of the Mass, the sacrifice of Christ who gave himself for the sanctification of men. Vatican II
The Blessed Mother of God has asked us to pray the Rosary for the conversion of sinners.
It did not nullify the Council of Orange, just clarified.
So do you believe in free will?
I think that by saying free gift, Paul is emphasizing it.
Some languages do that sort of thing.
You’re preaching a works based salvation when you have to do something to both earn the gift and keep it.
You require the work of baptism, religious ritual, to *accept* it, and must do works to keep it.
2 Timothy 1:6 mentions gift, not free gif: “Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you ....”
Your posting: “John 8:34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin.”
It is a free will choice to remain in sin and reject God.
Jesus furthers states: “because my word finds no place in you.”
Your comment: “Men have a will, for sure, but it is NOT free.”
Even if you are a slave to sin, a slave can reject sin. One needs to seek God’s truth and not man’s truth.
John 8:32 state “and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.’ So the acceptance of Jesus liberates us from the slavery of sin, ignorance and deception CCC2466
Which man cannot do without God.
Hence, man is NOT free.
If he were free, he could do it without God's help.
Your comment: “You require the work of baptism, religious ritual, to *accept* it, and must do works to keep it.”
Accepting God’s gift as he told us is not earning it. Your false comments show everyone that God’s truth is not with you.
That is what Christ told us. You can either accept or reject God.
Jesus is both divine and human. God is love and wants us with our free will to love Him. Jesus suffering on the cross were certainly human attributes.
God wants all to join Him in Heaven. God is concerned and disappointed when many reject His love. I would listen to the Blessed Mother of God. She may have good advice and her prayers are beneficial.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.