Posted on 08/24/2020 2:53:18 AM PDT by Cronos
More than 20 ex-Muslim organisations from around the world have joined forces to mark today (August 22) as the first annual International Apostasy Day.
Persecution of apostates has a long history but it's a particular problem today in Muslim countries. Any Muslim who publicly renounces Islam, whether to join another faith or to abandon religion entirely, risks being accused of apostasy – which is widely regarded as a serious crime. A remark attributed to the Prophet Muhammad says “He who changes his religion should be killed”.
In some countries the death penalty for apostasy has been incorporated into law, either explicitly in the penal code or indirectly through the role granted to Islamic shariah in the legal system. Actual executions are rare, though, and several recent apostasy cases – in Kuwait, Yemen and Sudan – were resolved by allowing the accused person to flee the country. More commonly, apostates are imprisoned under vague laws against “defaming religion” or “insulting God”.
Tough action against apostates also appears to have widespread public support in Muslim countries. A poll conducted by the Pew Research Center in 2010 showed that 84% of Egyptian Muslims believe those who leave Islam should be punished by death.
Even so, the whole idea of legislating against religious “thought crime” is at odds with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which says everyone has “the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion”. It also appears to be at odds with a verse in the Qur'an (2:256) which says “There is no compulsion in religion”. Legitimising vigilantes
One effect of having such laws is that they provide a veneer of legitimacy for the activities of religious vigilantes – either by initiating court cases or violently taking matters into their own hands.
In 1992 Farag Fouda, an outspoken secularist who ruthlessly mocked many of Egypt’s leading Islamists, was shot dead by two members of the militant group, al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya.
Two years later, Naguib Mahfouz, the only Arab ever to win a Nobel prize for literature, was stabbed in the neck outside his home after being accused by militants of apostasy. Mahfouz, who was eighty-two at the time, survived the assassination attempt but with his right arm partly paralysed.
In 2016, Jordanian writer Nahed Hattar was shot dead as he arrived at a court in Amman to answer charges of “insulting religion” and inciting “sectarian strife and racism”. Hattar was a controversial figure – a leftist supporter of the Assad regime in Syria – who had been arrested for sharing a cartoon on Facebook. The cartoon poked fun at a prominent financier of the Islamic State (ISIS/Daesh) who had earlier been reported killed. It depicted him living a dissolute lifestyle in heaven and being disrespectful towards God.
In the ensuing fuss Hattar deleted the cartoon and apologised, saying his intention was to criticise ISIS and not to insult Islam. Despite calls on social media for him to be killed or lynched, the authorities failed to protect him. After the shooting on the courthouse steps it was Hattar’s family, rather than the police, who initially apprehended the killer, a 49-year-old imam, who was later executed for the murder.
Many of those accused of apostasy are not actually apostates: they haven't renounced Islam but have simply expressed a view that upset the vigilantes. In Egypt, for example, lawsuits have often been used – by Islamists in particular – to harass those they disagree with. Compulsory divorce
For Nasr Abu Zayd, a teacher of Arabic literature at Cairo University in Egypt, the trouble began in 1992 when he applied for a professorial post. The committee responsible for promotions considered three reports on his work – two of which were favourable. But the third report, prepared by the Islamist Dr Abdel-Sabour Shahin, questioned the orthodoxy of Abu Zayd’s religious beliefs, claiming that his research contained “clear affronts to the Islamic faith”, and the committee rejected his appointment by seven votes to six.
Not content with having deprived Abu Zayd of a promotion, Shahin then wrote a newspaper article accusing him of apostasy. This in turn prompted a group of Islamist lawyers to file a lawsuit seeking to divorce Abu Zayd from his wife, on the grounds that a Muslim woman cannot be married to an apostate. They eventually won their case and Abu Zayd fled the country along with his newly-divorced wife.
The Egyptian writer and feminist, Nawal el Saadawi, faced a similar situation in 2001 when Islamists sought to have her divorced after thirty-seven years of marriage, on the grounds that her views had placed her outside Islam. The case seems to have been prompted by an interview in which she said kissing the black stone of the Kaaba (which Muslims do on the pilgrimage to Mecca) is a “vestige of pagan practices”. Fortunately for Saadawi, the divorce claim was rejected. “Civil death”
In some countries defectors from Islam can be taken to the sharia courts (by relatives or others) and stripped of basic rights in the areas of marriage, inheritance and custody of children – a legal concept known as “civil death”.
In 2005, for example, Jordan's shariah appeals court declared a Muslim convert to Christianity to be a ward of the state, stripped him of his civil rights and annulled his marriage. The court ruled that he no longer had any inheritance rights and that he could not remarry his wife unless he returned to Islam.
Egypt, like Jordan, has no specific law forbidding apostasy but in another “civil death” case a 73-year-old Egyptian Muslim was awarded custody of his seven-year-old grandson because the boy’s parents changed their religion, converting to the Baha’i faith. The grandfather, Mohammad Abdul Fatah, said he had gone to court after seeking advice from Egypt’s Grand Mufti: “He advised me to consider my daughter dead, and to file a lawsuit to demand the guardianship of my grandchild.”
That alone makes Islam a cult.
They forgot the US..would be interesting
I recall a Muslim who converted to Christianity, and posted a poem on line sympathetic of Jews who endured the Holocaust. Two Muslims caught up to him, beat him and carved a large Star of David on his back. This occurred in Mineapolis, I think. I friended him on facebook, back in the days that I still looked in on facebook occasionally.
WOW..in the US
“He who changes his religion should be killed”
That alone makes Islam a cult.
A cult the same way the Mafia is a cult.
There’s the possibility that it’s all taqiyya.
Remember that the saracens are encouraged to lie to the infidel to achieve their goals.
Some of the actions described remind me of our cancel culture Leftists.
“As the bishop of Rome and pastor of the Catholic Church, I would like to invoke mercy and forgiveness for the non-evangelical behavior of Catholics toward Christians of other churches,” he said. “At the same time, I invite all Catholic brothers and sisters to forgive if today, or in the past, they have suffered offense by other Christians.”
“Non-evangelical behavior” is an interesting euphemism for the massive violence unleashed in the wake of the Reformation. Modern scholars estimate 50 million died in the religious violence that followed in persecutions, counter-persecutions and religious wars.
The islamic ‘cult’ isn’t the first religion to go cult ..
“He who changes his religion should be killed”
That alone makes Islam a cult.
So your "bible" doesn't have an "old testament" in it???
Islam started where it is.
Christ told Pilate that because His kingdom was not of this world explained why His followers were not out fighting to free Him.
Mohammad and company started killing, raping, slaving, pillaging and looting pretty much the moment that they had enough military power to do so ... which kinda tells you where this Allah’s kingdom is by comparison.
So if going cult is a benchmark then it should probably include how long it took as part of that metric.
That’s more a Shia against Sunni think, not a Muslim against non-Muslim think.
In this case, it is clear that many, many Muslims are leaving Islam
14 killed in CA. 3,000 in NYC. United 93 and the Pentagon.
And that gay bar in Florida.
The bible has metrics too.
The bible also predicted that there was going to be about 2,000 cubits between Israel and the ark before crossing over into the promised land.
Interesting that same number,about 2,000, is used in numbering the unclean swine that were demon possessed.
Moses and Aaron’s rods becoming serpents wasn’t just an event.
It was prophecy.
Nadab and Abihu dying wasn’t just an event. It was prophecy.
Er and Onan dying wasn’t just an event. It was prophecy.
Satan entering Judas (12th apostle in the ‘church’ and the one holding the money bag) wasn’t just an event. It was prophecy.
Satan controls all religion. All cults.
And the bible predicted it.
Even the birth of Judah’s sons to Tamar speaks to darkness in the ‘Kingdom’.
The world, especially religion, is full of Satan’s influence.
Demon possessed swine= unclean doctrines and teachings.
About 2,000.
That doesn’t just describe Islam.
That’s an indictment on the whole world, even and maybe especially, Judeo Christianity. Since the church is the representation of the Kingdom of heaven on Earth. A renewed garden.
But even Genesis tells us there were two trees in the garden and a serpent. Wonder where the church sees itself in that story.
Does it see itself as the tree of life or the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?
The church most certainly represents in its history good and evil, and well Adam and Eve eating that poison fruit is not a life sentence, but a death sentence.
Again, the bible predicted about 2,000 years of demon possessed swine.
The bible also predicted a 40 year period where Israel was to wander in the wilderness.
Multiply 40 by 50, number affiliated with Pentecost and the birth of the church, and one gets 2,000.
Two leavened (leaven represents false teachings) loaves is part of the offering at that Feast.
The metrics say
Nobody is good. No. Not one.
Islam doesnt have the Son,so they are Antichrist by scripture.
What’s Judeo Christianity’s excuse for the last about 2,000 years?
Also Antichrist?
Maybe His Kingdom is still truly not of this world.
And the fighting down here has been to see which side of Satan’s divided kingdom rules.
Since the first Protestant reformers called the Papacy and Pope ‘Antichrist’, it appears Antichrist is winning.
But because that ‘Antichrist’ is ‘Christian’ their doctrines appear not be completely demonic.
Satan isn’t going to deceive the whole world with ‘Islam’.
But Satan calling today Moon Day isn’t Islamic.
It’s ‘Judeo Christian’.
So that isn’t deceit. That’s just what today is according to ‘Antichrist’.
Not Antichrist Islam, but Antichrist Christianity.
The bible metrics point to Satan getting legal right on the Earth and in the ‘garden’ and religion.
How he can possibly fulfill prophecy and ‘deceive the world can be speculated within religion.
But for some,Satan does it today.
And not exclusive to Satans work in Islam.
If people want Islam destroyed, destroy their false goddess Frigg day.
But Antichrist Islam didn’t create that day.
Another Antichrist did.
I’m not going to discuss some of your ideas on prophesy but I will demonstrate how your response is a straw man for not actually being a response to what I’d written.
I wrote, quoting:
Islam started where it is.
Christ told Pilate that because His kingdom was not of this world explained why His followers were not out fighting to free Him.
Mohammad and company started killing, raping, slaving, pillaging and looting pretty much the moment that they had enough military power to do so ... which kinda tells you where this Allah’s kingdom is by comparison.
So if going cult is a benchmark then it should probably include how long it took as part of that metric.
(end quote)
And the “metric” I was pointing out related exactly to while men were best being disciples of their respective masters.
That would mean I was inherently pointing to a time before Christians had gained ANY notoriety for being what we might call “bad disciples” who did not emulate Christ.
This is the BIG reason why your post really wasn’t a good response to mine because I was implicitly referring to the fact that there WAS such a time as when many Christians were good disciples, such that even pagan observers noted that they had a profound love for each other among other such things.
Meanwhile with Islam, with Mohammad among them leading them and they emulating him as good disciples of his example (and Muslims are commended, or even commanded, to follow Mohammad’s example) they went straight way out to wars of unprovoked aggressions.
Everything you posted could be lumped under the heading of what happens when “Christians” do not emulate Christ.
We would agree that not emulating Christ is a bad thing, and bad things happen when Christians are not disciples of Christ. I could, for example, point to the fact that we seem to see Romans 1:18-32 going on in far too much of our society as a specific example to show certain “Christians” are not disciples of Christ at all.
Yet on the other hand Islam, which was expressly born from the spirit of antichrist, presents us with the opposite truth ... that very bad things happen when Muslims emulate Mohammad, inescapably so.
There isn’t a real comparison between these two. The Gospel is and remains proverbial fine china of the highest quality and value even if some people have used it as their chamber pot whereas Islam is a proverbial chamber pot no matter if some “Muslims”, who are not disciples of Mohammad and who do not emulate him, have cleaned it up and are using it as if it were fine china.
To be blunt the fact that human beings are bad disciples in general is both why you could make your points about “Christianity” and why so-called “moderate” Muslims who just want to have ordinary lives not filled with violence, that they might have careers and friends/neighbors and civil societies are around to confuse people into believing that there is a “religion of peace” to be found in Islam.
My metric was that the bible details Satan was a part of the church from the start...and has had the legal right to it.
And Satan’s work is not just overtly evil but also counterfeit righteousness.
That isn’t a comment on individuals but on powers and principalities, even religion. Maybe a more spiritual discussion as opposed to a natural/physical raping,pillaging,killing discussion.
I don’t have any problem calling Islam Antichrist.
The bible confirms it.
I also don’t have any problem calling Judaism Antichrist.
The bible confirms it.
Antichrist doesn’t just means ‘against’.
Scholars have detailed ‘anti’ also could mean ‘instead of’, in place of, substitute for.
I am glad you mentioned the gospel and spirit of Antichrist, though.
If the scriptures could prove Satan has created his own 1st importance of the gospel, and his own Jesus, would people trapped in religion see it?
Paul warns about it.
Again, Satan isn’t just in charge of overtly evil religion, but also in charge of counterfeit righteousness.
Muslims,Jews, Christians, secular humanists, athiests, all have Satan deceiving them.
What the world needs is Truth to set them free.
Satan’s divided Kingdom does fall.
Emulating Christ wasn’t my issue.
Creating a False Christ was..
That’s what Satan has done
Islam today is certainly more dangerous physically.
Which is more dangerous spiritually?
The against Christ?
Or the Substitute/in place of Christ?
Overtly evil is easy to spot.
Counterfeit righteousness is not.
My metric is more spiritual than the one you used.
And that may be why we would appear to type past each other.
Ex Muslims is a good thing.
Their next faith step can be to become a believer in the Son.
And if they are truly blessed, they can see how Satan has deceived Judaism and Christianity in that journey, and be led to come out of Babylon completely.
Here we are treading into waters where I just don’t know enough about you, or you about me for that matter, to be totally clear where we are respectfully coming from. This is just a common problem with an on line forum.
It might be useful if you flatly clarified what you would consider to be the false Christ and the false gospel in play in this instance. For you appear to be wanting a much larger discussion than I initially offered.
I will go first with some easy to reach fruit: like Islam a false gospel may teach that the faith was lost or corrupted, requiring a new prophet to give a new message, one which not incidentally will teach entirely new things about salvation, about creation, or any number of things important enough to drag those who give heed off of the reservation, so to speak.
I do not know if this is what you might be referring to, and it does not really seem to line up with either extreme option that might be tied into your earlier comment about Protestants calling the RCC a thing of the Antichrist because simply I don’t know that either Protestants or the RCC were talking about the other as if the other were claiming to be new prophets.
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