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Should we Evangelize Protestants ?
The Catholic Thing ^ | August 9th, 2020 | Casey Chalk

Posted on 08/09/2020 7:46:24 AM PDT by MurphsLaw

We should stop trying to evangelize Protestants, some Catholics say. “Let’s get our own house clean first, before we invite our fellow Christians in,” someone commented on a recent article of mine that presented a Catholic rejoinder to a prominent Baptist theologian. Another reader argued that, rather than trying to persuade Protestants to become Catholic, we should “help each other spread God’s love in this world that seems to be falling to pieces before our eyes.” As a convert from Protestantism, actively engaged in ecumenical dialogue, I’ve heard this kind of thinking quite frequently. And it’s dead wrong.

One common argument in favor of scrapping Catholic evangelism towards Protestants is that the Catholic Church, mired in sex-abuse and corruption scandals, liturgical abuses, heretical movements, and uneven catechesis, is such a mess that it is not, at least for the moment, a place suitable for welcoming other Christians.

There are many problems with this. For starters, when has the Church not been plagued by internal crises? In the fourth century, a majority of bishops were deceived by the Arian heresy. The medieval Church suffered under the weight of simony and a lax priesthood, as well as the Avignon Papacy and the Western Schism, culminating in three men claiming, simultaneously, to be pope. The Counter-Reformation, for all its catechetical, missionary and aesthetic glories, was still marred by corruption and heresies (Jansenism). Catholicism has never been able to escape such trials. That didn’t stop St. Martin of Tours, St. Boniface, St. Francis de Sales, St. Ignatius Loyola, or St. Teresa of Calcutta from their missionary efforts.

The “Catholics clean house” argument also undermines our own theology. Is the Eucharist the “source and summit of the Christian life,” as Lumen Gentium preaches, or not? If it is, how could we in good conscience not direct other Christians to its salvific power? Jesus Himself declared: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.” (John 6:53) Was our Lord misrepresenting the Eucharist?

Or what of the fact that most Protestant churches allow contraception, a mortal sin? Or that Protestants have no recourse to the sacraments of penance or last rites? To claim Protestants aren’t in need of these essential parts of the Catholic faith is to implicitly suggest we don’t need them either.

* Moreover, in the generations since the Reformation, Rome has been able to win many Protestants back to the fold who have made incalculable contributions to the Church. St. John Henry Newman’s conversion ushered in a Catholic revival in England, and gave us a robust articulation of the concept of doctrinal development. The conversion of French Lutheran pastor Louis Bouyer influenced the teachings of Vatican II. Biblical scholar Scott Hahn’s conversion in the 1980s revitalized lay study of Holy Scripture.

Another popular argument in favor of limiting evangelization of Protestants involves the culture war. Catholics and theologically conservative Protestants, some claim, share significant common ground on various issues: abortion, homosexuality, transgenderism, euthanasia, religious freedom, etc. Secularism, the sexual revolution, and anti-religious progressives represent an existential threat to the survival of both Catholics and Protestants, and thus we must work together, not debate one another. “Let’s hold back any criticism of them,” a person commenting on my article wrote. “Believe me, in the times that we are in, we need to all hang together, or we will definitely hang separately on gallows outside our own churches.”

This line of thought certainly has rhetorical force: we don’t have the luxury of debating with Protestants when the progressivists are planning our imminent demise! Ecumenical debate is a distraction from self-preservation. One problem with this argument is that it reduces our Christian witness to a zero-sum game – we have to focus all our efforts on fighting secular progressivism, or we’ll fail. Yet the Church has many missions in the public square – that Catholics invest great energy in the pro-life movement doesn’t mean we shouldn’t also focus our efforts on other important matters: health-care, education, ensuring religious freedom, or fighting poverty and environmental degradation. All of these, in different ways, are a part of human flourishing. Even if we consider some questions more urgent than others, none of them should be ignored.

Besides, there is a vast difference between mere polemics and charitable, fruitful discussions aimed at resolving disagreements. The former can certainly cause bad blood. The latter, however, can actually foster unity and clarity regarding our purposes. Consider how much more fruitful our fight against the devastation of the sexual revolution would be if we persuaded Protestants that they need to reject things like contraception and the more permissive stance towards divorce that they have allowed to seep into their churches. Consider how non-Christians could learn from charitable ecumenical conversations that don’t devolve into name-calling and vilification.

Finally, abandoning or minimizing the evangelizing of Protestants is to fail to recognize how their theological and philosophical premises have contributed to the very problems we now confront. As Brad Gregory’s book The Unintended Reformation demonstrates, the very nature of Protestantism has contributed to the individualism, secularism, and moral relativism of our age. A crucial component to our Catholic witness, then, is helping Protestants to recognize this, since even when they have the best intentions, their very paradigm undermines their contributions to collaborating with us in the culture war.

I for one am very grateful that Catholics – many of them former Protestants – persuaded me to see the problems inherent to Protestantism, and the indisputable truths of Catholicism. My salvation was at stake. I also found and married a devout Catholic woman, and am raising Catholic children. The Catholic tradition taught me how to pray, worship, and think in an entirely different way. It pains me to think what my life would be like if I hadn’t converted to Catholicism.

Why bother to evangelize devout Protestants? Because they are people like me.


TOPICS: Catholic
KEYWORDS: catholics; christianity; evangelicals
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To: metmom

The religion of catholiciism is a different religion and their Mary is a different being, drawn from the ancient pagan religion of Semiramism worship of ‘the goddess’..


841 posted on 08/21/2020 4:22:10 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: metmom

It is too bad that you rejected the true holy one catholic and apostolic Catholic Church as you seem very confused. You try to quote scripture but do not fully understand or purposely try to imply a false teaching.

Jesus said “ I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” (Matthew 16:19)

The keys are a symbol of the teaching authority given to Peter and his successors that includes interpreting the Bible.

Hopefully one day you may return to the Catholic faith and the Sacraments if you truly desire salvation. This is a time of Jesus Divine Mercy and may end soon. One needs to ask for His Mercy by repenting and confessing one sins.

If you are interested in Christ’s Divine Mercy, here is good web site:
https://www.thedivinemercy.org/divine-mercy-videos


842 posted on 08/21/2020 5:31:02 PM PDT by ADSUM
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To: ADSUM

“ Hopefully one day you may return to the Catholic faith and the Sacraments if you truly desire salvation.”

.....

NEITHER is necessary for salvation.

But then you have those things and you’ve said you have no assurance of salvation.

There ya go ADSUM.

Your move.


843 posted on 08/21/2020 5:35:42 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (I'd rather be anecdotally alive than scientifically dead... f)
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To: Mark17

The Blessed Mother is not a deity and Catholics do not worship her.

You should know that and stop making false statements that are sins (although from a previous post you seem to relish mortal sins). I believe that you may get an unpleasant surprise.

The Blessed Mother is the Mother of God, Jesus Christ and according to human tradition it is the mother of the King that is the Queen in a kingdom.

Accordingly, the Blessed Mother is the Queen of Heaven.


844 posted on 08/21/2020 5:37:20 PM PDT by ADSUM
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To: ADSUM

Do you just copy-paste your responses?

You should look into it; it might save you time.


845 posted on 08/21/2020 5:42:25 PM PDT by Luircin
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To: ADSUM
The Blessed Mother is not a deity and Catholics do not worship her.

Catholics idolize Mary and some worship her, believing she is more than human and only slightly below Christ.

846 posted on 08/21/2020 5:45:18 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (I'd rather be anecdotally alive than scientifically dead... f)
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To: ADSUM
The Blessed Mother is not a deity and Catholics do not worship her.

BTW, they worshipped Mother Earth in the vatican with the pope.

Guess the pantheon of demigods needs more.

847 posted on 08/21/2020 5:46:29 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (I'd rather be anecdotally alive than scientifically dead... f)
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To: Mark17
My memories of Confession as a Catholic kid consisted usually of trying to think of what sins I committed that I had to confess to the priest since Saturday Confession was a thing. I often wished if I died it would be AFTER Confession Saturday before one of my siblings messed me up again! I'm sure the priest got a chuckle out of my childish efforts. I hadn't really been taught much about what sin actually is but I knew I had to come up with anything that would pass and I was good to go on Sunday for Communion. I could say the "Forgive me Father for I have sinned..." part but I admit it took effort to verbalize the things I thought would qualify as "sins". No doubt they were all "venial" ones. My weekly confession usually included, "I got mad at my sister." or "I cursed at my mom under my breath when she made me mad.". I recall confessing numerous times the same sin I had done at age 6 (taking a quarter out of mom's purse and then being afraid to spend it so I told her I found it and she said I should take to my school's lost and found) and which I still felt guilt over. For some reason, I didn't feel forgiven even though I was sorry I did it and said all my penance prayers. That was one thing that I questioned a lot - how is saying certain rote prayers to Mary a proper punishment for doing wrong?

What bothers me now as a Christian is I wasn't taught the seriousness of sin - other than a "mortal" one could send me to hell and that scared me. One of Martin Luther's main objections to Indulgences was:

    Then in addition, the very profusion of indulgences astonishingly fills up the measure of servile righteousness. Through these nothing is accomplished except that the people learn to fear and flee and dread the penalty of sins, but not the sins themselves. Therefore, the results of indulgences are too little seen but we do see a great sense of self-security and licentious sinning; so much so that, if it were not for the fear of the punishment of sins, nobody would want these indulgences, even if they were free; whereas the people ought rather to be exhorted to love the punishment and embrace the cross. Would that I were a liar when I say that indulgences are rightly so called, for to indulge means to permit, and indulgence is equivalent to impunity, permission to sin, and license to nullify the cross of Christ. Or, if indulgences are to be permitted, they should be given only to those who are weak in faith, that those who seek to attain gentleness and lowliness through suffering, as the Lord here says, may not be offended. For, not through indulgences, but through gentleness and lowliness, so says he, is rest for your souls found. But gentleness is present only in punishment and suffering, from which these indulgences absolve us. They teach us to dread the cross and suffering and the result is that we never become gentle and lowly, and that means that we never receive indulgence nor come to Christ. Oh, the dangers of our time! Oh, you snoring priests! Oh, darkness deeper than Egyptian! How secure we are in the midst of the worst of all our evils! (LW 51:31-33).

As an adult and informed Christian today I look back on times in my life and regret deeply the sins I committed because I realize they are sins against God - not Mom, not my sisters/brothers. God's grace has taught me that living in holiness is an inheritance of God's elect. It is God always at work within me to conform me to Christ's own image and His sanctification process that opens my eyes to the true price sin effects in my fellowship and walk with my God and Savior. It gave me a whole new understanding about sin and my motivation to avoid them - not to keep me saved but because I AM saved and belong to God. I can see why Luther objected to Indulgences and he was right.

848 posted on 08/21/2020 5:48:18 PM PDT by boatbums (Come unto me all you who are burdened and heavy laden - for my yoke is easy and my burden is light.)
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To: ADSUM; Mark17
Accordingly, the Blessed Mother is the Queen of Heaven.

Nice blasphemy adsum!

Paging Mark17 for more info on the pagan queen of heaven.

849 posted on 08/21/2020 5:48:40 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (I'd rather be anecdotally alive than scientifically dead... f)
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To: ADSUM; MHGinTN; aMorePerfectUnion; metmom; boatbums
The Blessed Mother is not a deity and Catholics do not worship her.

I disagree bro. I worshipped Mary, when I was a catholic. I don’t now, of course, since I am an ex catholic. And, I might add, according to Merriam-Webster, you DO worship Mary. You can deny it till you are blue in the face. I am not buying, what you are selling.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/worship

When I was a catholic, I loved committing mortal sins, even though I could never get a priest to tell me, what was a mortal sin and what was a venial sin. Most Catholics that I knew in my catholic high school, enjoyed sinning. Most were worse sinners than me, and I was a grotesque sinner. Now that I left the Catholic Church, I don’t like to sin. I hate it. Sometimes I still sin, but nothing like when I was a catholic.
I hope you come out of the false religion and learn the truth. 🤣🙃🤑🤪 before 🔥

850 posted on 08/21/2020 5:58:59 PM PDT by Mark17 (USAF Retired. Father of a US Air Force commissioned officer, and trained Air Force combat pilot.)
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To: ADSUM

Refresh my memory about why it’s so important to pour all these titles on Mary, and why simply worshipping Christ isn’t enough.


851 posted on 08/21/2020 6:06:06 PM PDT by Luircin
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To: Luircin

Oops! IF he responds it will be most interesting to see what satan had fed him to post.


852 posted on 08/21/2020 6:10:56 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: Mark17
I've often wondered who actually takes sin more serious, Catholics and others who depend on their works for their salvation, or saved believers, who understand Christ's FINISHED WORK for us, plus NOTHING, for our salvation. I've come to the conclusion that those who think they can eat a wafer, drink some wine, do some penance or say the daily rosary are the ones who take REDEMPTION and Justification so casually. Commit a sin? Pray a rosary. Commit a bad sin? Eat, drink, do some penance, crawl on your knees until they bleed. DO something. That's what is going to justify you. You did something. Did this?✔ Do that.✔ aahhhh, NOW I'm forgiven. As opposed to standing speechless before God. KNOWING what you deserve. But also KNOWING what Christ did for you. And your spirit bears witness with His. It wasn't ignored. It was PAID FOR. It's ALREADY been paid for.
853 posted on 08/21/2020 6:16:44 PM PDT by smvoice (I WILL NOT WEAR THE RIBBON.)
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To: ADSUM; Luircin
My understanding is that non Catholics have limited means of receiving forgiveness of their sins and their assumption that Christ’s death on the cross forgave all future sins is not Biblical and may lead to their loss of salvation.

Too bad your "understanding" isn't based upon God's eternal word. Do you not have the following verses in your Bible?

    For Christ did not enter a man-made copy of the true sanctuary, but He entered heaven itself, now to appear on our behalf in the presence of God. Nor did He enter heaven to offer Himself again and again, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise, Christ would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But now He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Just as man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment, so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him. (Hebrews 9:24-28)

    Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (Hebrews 10:8-14)

854 posted on 08/21/2020 6:20:31 PM PDT by boatbums (Come unto me all you who are burdened and heavy laden - for my yoke is easy and my burden is light.)
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To: MurphsLaw

It’s such an absurd thing for Catholics to believe that Protestants aren’t saved.

I had a Catholic friend who firmly believed that every Protestant was doomed to go to Hell, and I’ve Protestant friends who believe that all Catholics are going to Hell...that it’s an evil cult.

As for me, I think there will be both Catholics and Protestants to be found in both places after the Judgement.


855 posted on 08/21/2020 6:22:13 PM PDT by Sir_Ed
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To: Sir_Ed

I rarely weigh in on the religion threads but need to say that I totally agree with you.


856 posted on 08/21/2020 6:23:46 PM PDT by Chickensoup (Voter ID for 2020!! Leftists totalitarian fascists appear to be planning to eradicate conservatives)
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To: Sir_Ed

As I have posted before:

Being C and $3 will get you a cup of coffee

Being P and $3 will get you a cup of coffee and a glass of water.


857 posted on 08/21/2020 6:26:23 PM PDT by PeterPrinciple (Thinking Caps are no longer being issued but there must be a warehouse full of them somewhere.)
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To: Sir_Ed

I’ve met Catholics who believe the Gospel of Christ and many Protestants who think their works earn them salvation.

The problem arises with the teachings thereof, because they are irreconcilable.


858 posted on 08/21/2020 6:38:30 PM PDT by Luircin
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To: ADSUM; metmom
Jesus, the Son of God, was sent by the Father to restore the harmony between himself and humanity that had been disrupted by sin. He came to teach and show us love. We are here to know God, accept his Truth and love Him and our neighbor. You should try to use reason and logic and not contradict God’s Truth with your personal opinion. Since you don’t want to understand the Catholic faith, perhaps you should look up answers to your questions or comments before you make further false statements about the Catholic faith.

Looks like it is you who is making false statements about the Catholic faith as well as contradicting God's Truth, His Word and your OWN Catechism! Do you just ignore:

    600 To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of "predestination", he includes in it each person's free response to his grace: "In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place."395 For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.396 "He died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures"

    601 The Scriptures had foretold this divine plan of salvation through the putting to death of "the righteous one, my Servant" as a mystery of universal redemption, that is, as the ransom that would free men from the slavery of sin.397 Citing a confession of faith that he himself had "received", St. Paul professes that "Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures."398 In particular Jesus' redemptive death fulfils Isaiah's prophecy of the suffering Servant.399 Indeed Jesus himself explained the meaning of his life and death in the light of God's suffering Servant.400 After his Resurrection he gave this interpretation of the Scriptures to the disciples at Emmaus, and then to the apostles.401

    "For our sake God made him to be sin"

    602 Consequently, St. Peter can formulate the apostolic faith in the divine plan of salvation in this way: "You were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your fathers... with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. He was destined before the foundation of the world but was made manifest at the end of the times for your sake."402 Man's sins, following on original sin, are punishable by death.403 By sending his own Son in the form of a slave, in the form of a fallen humanity, on account of sin, God "made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."404

    603 Jesus did not experience reprobation as if he himself had sinned.405 But in the redeeming love that always united him to the Father, he assumed us in the state of our waywardness of sin, to the point that he could say in our name from the cross: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"406 Having thus established him in solidarity with us sinners, God "did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all", so that we might be "reconciled to God by the death of his Son".407

    God takes the initiative of universal redeeming love

    604 By giving up his own Son for our sins, God manifests that his plan for us is one of benevolent love, prior to any merit on our part: "In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins."408 God "shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us."409

    605 At the end of the parable of the lost sheep Jesus recalled that God's love excludes no one: "So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish."410 He affirms that he came "to give his life as a ransom for many"; this last term is not restrictive, but contrasts the whole of humanity with the unique person of the redeemer who hands himself over to save us.411 The Church, following the apostles, teaches that Christ died for all men without exception: "There is not, never has been, and never will be a single human being for whom Christ did not suffer."412

    III. CHRIST OFFERED HIMSELF TO HIS FATHER FOR OUR SINS

    Christ's whole life is an offering to the Father

    606 The Son of God, who came down "from heaven, not to do (his) own will, but the will of him who sent (him)",413 said on coming into the world, "Lo, I have come to do your will, O God." "and by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."414 From the first moment of his Incarnation the Son embraces the Father's plan of divine salvation in his redemptive mission: "My food is to do the will of him who sent me, and to accomplish his work."415 The sacrifice of Jesus "for the sins of the whole world"416 expresses his loving communion with the Father. "The Father loves me, because I lay down my life", said the Lord, "(for) I do as the Father has commanded me, so that the world may know that I love the Father."417

    607 The desire to embrace his Father's plan of redeeming love inspired Jesus' whole life,418 for his redemptive passion was the very reason for his Incarnation. and so he asked, "and what shall I say? 'Father, save me from this hour'? No, for this purpose I have come to this hour."419 and again, "Shall I not drink the cup which the Father has given me?"420 From the cross, just before "It is finished", he said, "I thirst."421

    "The Lamb who takes away the sin of the world"

    608 After agreeing to baptize him along with the sinners, John the Baptist looked at Jesus and pointed him out as the "Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world".422 By doing so, he reveals that Jesus is at the same time the suffering Servant who silently allows himself to be led to the slaughter and who bears the sin of the multitudes, and also the Paschal Lamb, the symbol of Israel's redemption at the first Passover.423 Christ's whole life expresses his mission: "to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."424

    Jesus freely embraced the Father's redeeming love

    609 By embracing in his human heart the Father's love for men, Jesus "loved them to the end", for "greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."425 In suffering and death his humanity became the free and perfect instrument of his divine love which desires the salvation of men.426 Indeed, out of love for his Father and for men, whom the Father wants to save, Jesus freely accepted his Passion and death: "No one takes [my life] from me, but I lay it down of my own accord."427 Hence the sovereign freedom of God's Son as he went out to his death.428 Catechism of the Catholic Church

Strange that a non-Catholic Christian has to remind you of this!

859 posted on 08/21/2020 6:43:05 PM PDT by boatbums (Come unto me all you who are burdened and heavy laden - for my yoke is easy and my burden is light.)
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To: Elsie
Uh; it appears you tried to slip something UNBIBLICAL into what you referenced.

That's one of the numerous errors of the Catholic Douay/Rheims Bible. They use the words "do penance" when Scripture says "repent".

860 posted on 08/21/2020 6:47:16 PM PDT by boatbums (Come unto me all you who are burdened and heavy laden - for my yoke is easy and my burden is light.)
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