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Posted on 08/09/2020 7:46:24 AM PDT by MurphsLaw
We should stop trying to evangelize Protestants, some Catholics say. Lets get our own house clean first, before we invite our fellow Christians in, someone commented on a recent article of mine that presented a Catholic rejoinder to a prominent Baptist theologian. Another reader argued that, rather than trying to persuade Protestants to become Catholic, we should help each other spread Gods love in this world that seems to be falling to pieces before our eyes. As a convert from Protestantism, actively engaged in ecumenical dialogue, Ive heard this kind of thinking quite frequently. And its dead wrong.
One common argument in favor of scrapping Catholic evangelism towards Protestants is that the Catholic Church, mired in sex-abuse and corruption scandals, liturgical abuses, heretical movements, and uneven catechesis, is such a mess that it is not, at least for the moment, a place suitable for welcoming other Christians.
There are many problems with this. For starters, when has the Church not been plagued by internal crises? In the fourth century, a majority of bishops were deceived by the Arian heresy. The medieval Church suffered under the weight of simony and a lax priesthood, as well as the Avignon Papacy and the Western Schism, culminating in three men claiming, simultaneously, to be pope. The Counter-Reformation, for all its catechetical, missionary and aesthetic glories, was still marred by corruption and heresies (Jansenism). Catholicism has never been able to escape such trials. That didnt stop St. Martin of Tours, St. Boniface, St. Francis de Sales, St. Ignatius Loyola, or St. Teresa of Calcutta from their missionary efforts.
The Catholics clean house argument also undermines our own theology. Is the Eucharist the source and summit of the Christian life, as Lumen Gentium preaches, or not? If it is, how could we in good conscience not direct other Christians to its salvific power? Jesus Himself declared: Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. (John 6:53) Was our Lord misrepresenting the Eucharist?
Or what of the fact that most Protestant churches allow contraception, a mortal sin? Or that Protestants have no recourse to the sacraments of penance or last rites? To claim Protestants arent in need of these essential parts of the Catholic faith is to implicitly suggest we dont need them either.
* Moreover, in the generations since the Reformation, Rome has been able to win many Protestants back to the fold who have made incalculable contributions to the Church. St. John Henry Newmans conversion ushered in a Catholic revival in England, and gave us a robust articulation of the concept of doctrinal development. The conversion of French Lutheran pastor Louis Bouyer influenced the teachings of Vatican II. Biblical scholar Scott Hahns conversion in the 1980s revitalized lay study of Holy Scripture.
Another popular argument in favor of limiting evangelization of Protestants involves the culture war. Catholics and theologically conservative Protestants, some claim, share significant common ground on various issues: abortion, homosexuality, transgenderism, euthanasia, religious freedom, etc. Secularism, the sexual revolution, and anti-religious progressives represent an existential threat to the survival of both Catholics and Protestants, and thus we must work together, not debate one another. Lets hold back any criticism of them, a person commenting on my article wrote. Believe me, in the times that we are in, we need to all hang together, or we will definitely hang separately on gallows outside our own churches.
This line of thought certainly has rhetorical force: we dont have the luxury of debating with Protestants when the progressivists are planning our imminent demise! Ecumenical debate is a distraction from self-preservation. One problem with this argument is that it reduces our Christian witness to a zero-sum game we have to focus all our efforts on fighting secular progressivism, or well fail. Yet the Church has many missions in the public square that Catholics invest great energy in the pro-life movement doesnt mean we shouldnt also focus our efforts on other important matters: health-care, education, ensuring religious freedom, or fighting poverty and environmental degradation. All of these, in different ways, are a part of human flourishing. Even if we consider some questions more urgent than others, none of them should be ignored.
Besides, there is a vast difference between mere polemics and charitable, fruitful discussions aimed at resolving disagreements. The former can certainly cause bad blood. The latter, however, can actually foster unity and clarity regarding our purposes. Consider how much more fruitful our fight against the devastation of the sexual revolution would be if we persuaded Protestants that they need to reject things like contraception and the more permissive stance towards divorce that they have allowed to seep into their churches. Consider how non-Christians could learn from charitable ecumenical conversations that dont devolve into name-calling and vilification.
Finally, abandoning or minimizing the evangelizing of Protestants is to fail to recognize how their theological and philosophical premises have contributed to the very problems we now confront. As Brad Gregorys book The Unintended Reformation demonstrates, the very nature of Protestantism has contributed to the individualism, secularism, and moral relativism of our age. A crucial component to our Catholic witness, then, is helping Protestants to recognize this, since even when they have the best intentions, their very paradigm undermines their contributions to collaborating with us in the culture war.
I for one am very grateful that Catholics many of them former Protestants persuaded me to see the problems inherent to Protestantism, and the indisputable truths of Catholicism. My salvation was at stake. I also found and married a devout Catholic woman, and am raising Catholic children. The Catholic tradition taught me how to pray, worship, and think in an entirely different way. It pains me to think what my life would be like if I hadnt converted to Catholicism.
Why bother to evangelize devout Protestants? Because they are people like me.
The religion of catholiciism is a different religion and their Mary is a different being, drawn from the ancient pagan religion of Semiramism worship of ‘the goddess’..
It is too bad that you rejected the true holy one catholic and apostolic Catholic Church as you seem very confused. You try to quote scripture but do not fully understand or purposely try to imply a false teaching.
Jesus said “ I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” (Matthew 16:19)
The keys are a symbol of the teaching authority given to Peter and his successors that includes interpreting the Bible.
Hopefully one day you may return to the Catholic faith and the Sacraments if you truly desire salvation. This is a time of Jesus Divine Mercy and may end soon. One needs to ask for His Mercy by repenting and confessing one sins.
If you are interested in Christ’s Divine Mercy, here is good web site:
https://www.thedivinemercy.org/divine-mercy-videos
Hopefully one day you may return to the Catholic faith and the Sacraments if you truly desire salvation.
.....
NEITHER is necessary for salvation.
But then you have those things and youve said you have no assurance of salvation.
There ya go ADSUM.
Your move.
The Blessed Mother is not a deity and Catholics do not worship her.
You should know that and stop making false statements that are sins (although from a previous post you seem to relish mortal sins). I believe that you may get an unpleasant surprise.
The Blessed Mother is the Mother of God, Jesus Christ and according to human tradition it is the mother of the King that is the Queen in a kingdom.
Accordingly, the Blessed Mother is the Queen of Heaven.
Do you just copy-paste your responses?
You should look into it; it might save you time.
Catholics idolize Mary and some worship her, believing she is more than human and only slightly below Christ.
BTW, they worshipped Mother Earth in the vatican with the pope.
Guess the pantheon of demigods needs more.
What bothers me now as a Christian is I wasn't taught the seriousness of sin - other than a "mortal" one could send me to hell and that scared me. One of Martin Luther's main objections to Indulgences was:
As an adult and informed Christian today I look back on times in my life and regret deeply the sins I committed because I realize they are sins against God - not Mom, not my sisters/brothers. God's grace has taught me that living in holiness is an inheritance of God's elect. It is God always at work within me to conform me to Christ's own image and His sanctification process that opens my eyes to the true price sin effects in my fellowship and walk with my God and Savior. It gave me a whole new understanding about sin and my motivation to avoid them - not to keep me saved but because I AM saved and belong to God. I can see why Luther objected to Indulgences and he was right.
Nice blasphemy adsum!
Paging Mark17 for more info on the pagan queen of heaven.
I disagree bro. I worshipped Mary, when I was a catholic. I dont now, of course, since I am an ex catholic. And, I might add, according to Merriam-Webster, you DO worship Mary. You can deny it till you are blue in the face. I am not buying, what you are selling.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/worship
When I was a catholic, I loved committing mortal sins, even though I could never get a priest to tell me, what was a mortal sin and what was a venial sin. Most Catholics that I knew in my catholic high school, enjoyed sinning. Most were worse sinners than me, and I was a grotesque sinner. Now that I left the Catholic Church, I dont like to sin. I hate it. Sometimes I still sin, but nothing like when I was a catholic.
I hope you come out of the false religion and learn the truth. 🤣🙃🤑🤪 before 🔥
Refresh my memory about why it’s so important to pour all these titles on Mary, and why simply worshipping Christ isn’t enough.
Oops! IF he responds it will be most interesting to see what satan had fed him to post.
Too bad your "understanding" isn't based upon God's eternal word. Do you not have the following verses in your Bible?
Its such an absurd thing for Catholics to believe that Protestants arent saved.
I had a Catholic friend who firmly believed that every Protestant was doomed to go to Hell, and Ive Protestant friends who believe that all Catholics are going to Hell...that its an evil cult.
As for me, I think there will be both Catholics and Protestants to be found in both places after the Judgement.
I rarely weigh in on the religion threads but need to say that I totally agree with you.
As I have posted before:
Being C and $3 will get you a cup of coffee
Being P and $3 will get you a cup of coffee and a glass of water.
I’ve met Catholics who believe the Gospel of Christ and many Protestants who think their works earn them salvation.
The problem arises with the teachings thereof, because they are irreconcilable.
Looks like it is you who is making false statements about the Catholic faith as well as contradicting God's Truth, His Word and your OWN Catechism! Do you just ignore:
601 The Scriptures had foretold this divine plan of salvation through the putting to death of "the righteous one, my Servant" as a mystery of universal redemption, that is, as the ransom that would free men from the slavery of sin.397 Citing a confession of faith that he himself had "received", St. Paul professes that "Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures."398 In particular Jesus' redemptive death fulfils Isaiah's prophecy of the suffering Servant.399 Indeed Jesus himself explained the meaning of his life and death in the light of God's suffering Servant.400 After his Resurrection he gave this interpretation of the Scriptures to the disciples at Emmaus, and then to the apostles.401
"For our sake God made him to be sin"
602 Consequently, St. Peter can formulate the apostolic faith in the divine plan of salvation in this way: "You were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your fathers... with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. He was destined before the foundation of the world but was made manifest at the end of the times for your sake."402 Man's sins, following on original sin, are punishable by death.403 By sending his own Son in the form of a slave, in the form of a fallen humanity, on account of sin, God "made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."404
603 Jesus did not experience reprobation as if he himself had sinned.405 But in the redeeming love that always united him to the Father, he assumed us in the state of our waywardness of sin, to the point that he could say in our name from the cross: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"406 Having thus established him in solidarity with us sinners, God "did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all", so that we might be "reconciled to God by the death of his Son".407
God takes the initiative of universal redeeming love
604 By giving up his own Son for our sins, God manifests that his plan for us is one of benevolent love, prior to any merit on our part: "In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins."408 God "shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us."409
605 At the end of the parable of the lost sheep Jesus recalled that God's love excludes no one: "So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish."410 He affirms that he came "to give his life as a ransom for many"; this last term is not restrictive, but contrasts the whole of humanity with the unique person of the redeemer who hands himself over to save us.411 The Church, following the apostles, teaches that Christ died for all men without exception: "There is not, never has been, and never will be a single human being for whom Christ did not suffer."412
III. CHRIST OFFERED HIMSELF TO HIS FATHER FOR OUR SINS
Christ's whole life is an offering to the Father
606 The Son of God, who came down "from heaven, not to do (his) own will, but the will of him who sent (him)",413 said on coming into the world, "Lo, I have come to do your will, O God." "and by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."414 From the first moment of his Incarnation the Son embraces the Father's plan of divine salvation in his redemptive mission: "My food is to do the will of him who sent me, and to accomplish his work."415 The sacrifice of Jesus "for the sins of the whole world"416 expresses his loving communion with the Father. "The Father loves me, because I lay down my life", said the Lord, "(for) I do as the Father has commanded me, so that the world may know that I love the Father."417
607 The desire to embrace his Father's plan of redeeming love inspired Jesus' whole life,418 for his redemptive passion was the very reason for his Incarnation. and so he asked, "and what shall I say? 'Father, save me from this hour'? No, for this purpose I have come to this hour."419 and again, "Shall I not drink the cup which the Father has given me?"420 From the cross, just before "It is finished", he said, "I thirst."421
"The Lamb who takes away the sin of the world"
608 After agreeing to baptize him along with the sinners, John the Baptist looked at Jesus and pointed him out as the "Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world".422 By doing so, he reveals that Jesus is at the same time the suffering Servant who silently allows himself to be led to the slaughter and who bears the sin of the multitudes, and also the Paschal Lamb, the symbol of Israel's redemption at the first Passover.423 Christ's whole life expresses his mission: "to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."424
Jesus freely embraced the Father's redeeming love
609 By embracing in his human heart the Father's love for men, Jesus "loved them to the end", for "greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."425 In suffering and death his humanity became the free and perfect instrument of his divine love which desires the salvation of men.426 Indeed, out of love for his Father and for men, whom the Father wants to save, Jesus freely accepted his Passion and death: "No one takes [my life] from me, but I lay it down of my own accord."427 Hence the sovereign freedom of God's Son as he went out to his death.428 Catechism of the Catholic Church
Strange that a non-Catholic Christian has to remind you of this!
That's one of the numerous errors of the Catholic Douay/Rheims Bible. They use the words "do penance" when Scripture says "repent".
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