| This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies. |
|
Locked on 09/09/2020 1:17:58 AM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childishness, locked Posters, please review your posts to see what is not allowed in the Religion Forum. |
Posted on 08/09/2020 7:46:24 AM PDT by MurphsLaw
We should stop trying to evangelize Protestants, some Catholics say. “Let’s get our own house clean first, before we invite our fellow Christians in,” someone commented on a recent article of mine that presented a Catholic rejoinder to a prominent Baptist theologian. Another reader argued that, rather than trying to persuade Protestants to become Catholic, we should “help each other spread God’s love in this world that seems to be falling to pieces before our eyes.” As a convert from Protestantism, actively engaged in ecumenical dialogue, I’ve heard this kind of thinking quite frequently. And it’s dead wrong.
One common argument in favor of scrapping Catholic evangelism towards Protestants is that the Catholic Church, mired in sex-abuse and corruption scandals, liturgical abuses, heretical movements, and uneven catechesis, is such a mess that it is not, at least for the moment, a place suitable for welcoming other Christians.
There are many problems with this. For starters, when has the Church not been plagued by internal crises? In the fourth century, a majority of bishops were deceived by the Arian heresy. The medieval Church suffered under the weight of simony and a lax priesthood, as well as the Avignon Papacy and the Western Schism, culminating in three men claiming, simultaneously, to be pope. The Counter-Reformation, for all its catechetical, missionary and aesthetic glories, was still marred by corruption and heresies (Jansenism). Catholicism has never been able to escape such trials. That didn’t stop St. Martin of Tours, St. Boniface, St. Francis de Sales, St. Ignatius Loyola, or St. Teresa of Calcutta from their missionary efforts.
The “Catholics clean house” argument also undermines our own theology. Is the Eucharist the “source and summit of the Christian life,” as Lumen Gentium preaches, or not? If it is, how could we in good conscience not direct other Christians to its salvific power? Jesus Himself declared: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.” (John 6:53) Was our Lord misrepresenting the Eucharist?
Or what of the fact that most Protestant churches allow contraception, a mortal sin? Or that Protestants have no recourse to the sacraments of penance or last rites? To claim Protestants aren’t in need of these essential parts of the Catholic faith is to implicitly suggest we don’t need them either.
* Moreover, in the generations since the Reformation, Rome has been able to win many Protestants back to the fold who have made incalculable contributions to the Church. St. John Henry Newman’s conversion ushered in a Catholic revival in England, and gave us a robust articulation of the concept of doctrinal development. The conversion of French Lutheran pastor Louis Bouyer influenced the teachings of Vatican II. Biblical scholar Scott Hahn’s conversion in the 1980s revitalized lay study of Holy Scripture.
Another popular argument in favor of limiting evangelization of Protestants involves the culture war. Catholics and theologically conservative Protestants, some claim, share significant common ground on various issues: abortion, homosexuality, transgenderism, euthanasia, religious freedom, etc. Secularism, the sexual revolution, and anti-religious progressives represent an existential threat to the survival of both Catholics and Protestants, and thus we must work together, not debate one another. “Let’s hold back any criticism of them,” a person commenting on my article wrote. “Believe me, in the times that we are in, we need to all hang together, or we will definitely hang separately on gallows outside our own churches.”
This line of thought certainly has rhetorical force: we don’t have the luxury of debating with Protestants when the progressivists are planning our imminent demise! Ecumenical debate is a distraction from self-preservation. One problem with this argument is that it reduces our Christian witness to a zero-sum game – we have to focus all our efforts on fighting secular progressivism, or we’ll fail. Yet the Church has many missions in the public square – that Catholics invest great energy in the pro-life movement doesn’t mean we shouldn’t also focus our efforts on other important matters: health-care, education, ensuring religious freedom, or fighting poverty and environmental degradation. All of these, in different ways, are a part of human flourishing. Even if we consider some questions more urgent than others, none of them should be ignored.
Besides, there is a vast difference between mere polemics and charitable, fruitful discussions aimed at resolving disagreements. The former can certainly cause bad blood. The latter, however, can actually foster unity and clarity regarding our purposes. Consider how much more fruitful our fight against the devastation of the sexual revolution would be if we persuaded Protestants that they need to reject things like contraception and the more permissive stance towards divorce that they have allowed to seep into their churches. Consider how non-Christians could learn from charitable ecumenical conversations that don’t devolve into name-calling and vilification.
Finally, abandoning or minimizing the evangelizing of Protestants is to fail to recognize how their theological and philosophical premises have contributed to the very problems we now confront. As Brad Gregory’s book The Unintended Reformation demonstrates, the very nature of Protestantism has contributed to the individualism, secularism, and moral relativism of our age. A crucial component to our Catholic witness, then, is helping Protestants to recognize this, since even when they have the best intentions, their very paradigm undermines their contributions to collaborating with us in the culture war.
I for one am very grateful that Catholics – many of them former Protestants – persuaded me to see the problems inherent to Protestantism, and the indisputable truths of Catholicism. My salvation was at stake. I also found and married a devout Catholic woman, and am raising Catholic children. The Catholic tradition taught me how to pray, worship, and think in an entirely different way. It pains me to think what my life would be like if I hadn’t converted to Catholicism.
Why bother to evangelize devout Protestants? Because they are people like me.
‘For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.’
So glad someone posted a part of the first importance of the gospel.
Best to get right back to basics...
Christ died for our sins,in accordance with the scriptures...
So, when did Christ die for our sins?
On Passover, as the Passover Lamb, in accordance with the scriptures..
Or on False goddess good Friday, in accordance with Rome and her harlot daughters?
Paul taught the Passover Lamb, Unleavened Bread and First Fruits- in accordance with the scriptures. Those are references to 3 actual days on the Father’s calendar.
That isn’t what Christianity teaches today.
That isn’t what Christianity follows today. And one can see that isn’t what Antichrist Judaism or Antichrist Islam follows today either.
They all seem fixed on another first/chief importance of the gospel.
That may or may not be prophetic, depending on how one reads the scriptures. And even Paul’s warnings.
WOW, lookit all the nose-in-the-air FRomans on this thread.
You’d almost think their church doesn’t defend and enable kiddy-diddlers and is on the way to declaring sodomy a sacrament.
Her specific mission was to make a muslim a better muslim; a sikh a better sikh?
I doubt it.
So what was your score?
7
I didn’t take the quiz/count
I do know the score of religion today.
It’s Babylon.
And it has another Jesus and another gospel that Paul didn’t teach.
I would estimate that if you stood outside most evangelical protestant churches today and asked those coming out, “Why should God allow you to go to heaven?” most of the answers would be something like this - “Well, I have done more good stuff than bad stuff. I think I am basically a good person.”
The gospel is not being taught in most churches.
For those chancing upon this post. Here is the gospel and here is how the above question should be answered:
“I trust in the righteousness of Jesus Christ, not my own. I know I am a sinner, but I live a repentant life believing in the mercy of my savior who died for me taking my punishment upon himself.”
How about you humor me and give me a ballpark?
7
I would note that Protestants don’t do great in this type of polling, and there are entire mainline denominations that are dead. Even so-called evangelicals come up with scary results in opinion polling. (Barna group does a lot of it.)
There are plenty of tares among the wheat.
Well, I celebrate the communion everyday. I receive with gladness the blessing of His body broken for mine in the form of broken bread. I ask for all He has and receive, He loved me enough to have his body broken for mine, so I am not hesitant to need Him. I drink from the Cup representing His shed Blood as a perfect man in remembrance of His punishment by by GOD ALMIGHTY, His death for my rescue.
That is what is meant by “In Christ Alone”.
All the RCC extra Biblical doctrine of transubstantiation etc. stem from pagan roots of Isis/Osiris Baal and Dagon and and and... Satan prepped the battle field with counterfeits long before the Christ arrived, ever since the proclamation by God to Eve that her Seed would defeat him, just as he is prepping the battlefield of toady and tomorrow for the person of the Antichrist.
As to Peter and the keys, well, careful reading may reveal that Christ referred to what Peter had just told Him in response to Jesus question posed to His disciples “ who do you say I am?” To which Peter responded “the Christ, the Son of the Living God”. Christ then tells Peter that God gave that revelation to him. The stated that “your Peter ( a piece of rock) and on this Rock ( a living solid bedrock) I will build my church etc.
Also, some commentators refer to the answer Peter gave- as the Rock the basis the complete power given to Jesus as the Christ.
Certainly we have the keys of forgiveness and peace and brotherhood- if we release and forgive, then it is forgiven if we retain then the offense etc is retained.
Jesus holds the keys to death and hell as clearly stated in Revelation. We hold the keys to the kingdom on earth- our witness and example either turn people away or towards the Truth and either death/permanent separation from God or to life and salvation.
Don’t forget that in the next breath Peter was chastised by Jesus when he told Jesus that He should not go to Jerusalem to be killed. “Get thee behind me, Satan ( accuser)! is pretty tough criticism for the “pope”. Of course, Peter grew in faith and composure as demonstrated in the Book of the Act of the Holy Spirit ( Apostles), with hiccups.
I never said I reject any of the Holy Scriptures, in fact I embrace it all (but not the apocryphal books that Hebrews never accepted as God-breathed but solely historical). And, as I study and learn from both Holy Spirit and fellow man, I see just how much it cost for Jesus to save me, let alone the whole world. He is my Lord. I am but a beneficiary, yet pulled into sonship and adopted by God Almighty.
Praise Jesus All You Saints!
Just like the democrats taking the moral high ground.
So we should be lectured about the Truth by those who replace it with their own fables labeled “sacred tradition” and those who demand Catholics disobey a clear, concise command of Jesus like not using the title “Father” for religious leaders?
When they start living what is written in the Bible they claim to have given us, then they might have some credibility.
Until then, I don’t see why anyone would need to bother listening to them.
Communion was meant to be a ceremony of remembrance, not a participation in a perpetually ongoing sacrifice where Jesus is forever dying but never dead and raised again.
Wait, are you critical of my practice of breaking bread and drinking from the cup rendering His body broken for mine and His blood shed for my redemption?
Isn’t mass celebrated every day, if you are a Catholic that should quite you, if you are a Protestant, what could be more valuable than remembering your Savior’s gift daily?
Where is it written to do as you say? It is clearly written in the Gospels for me to do this every time I break bread and drink from the cup.
It is not a ritual as Catholics perform, it is a quiet time to begin my day fully aware of my condition and act like it. An adopted son of the Most High God.
That’s what’s in my wallet- a red signed in blood and certified by His suffering.
Metmom, if you were agreeing, my apology.
Perhaps I read wrongly.
Rendering= remembering.
Red=deed
Silly auto spell....
Your comment: “All the RCC extra Biblical doctrine of transubstantiation etc. stem from pagan roots of Isis/Osiris Baal and Dagon and and and... “
You are clueless, the Sacrament of the Eucharist was given to us by Jesus Christ at the Last Supper. It was passed down to Catholics through Sacred Tradition before Scriptures were written and continues as the summit and source of our Christian life.
Perhaps since you reject the words of the Eucharist that we need to eat and drink Christ’s Body and Blood for our salvation, then you might want to examine the scientific evidence that is available:
The consecrated host has been examined by independent scientists and determined that the consecrated host is living stressed heart muscle tissue,myocardial left ventricle, arteries, veins, branch vagus nerve, fresh and living Blood type AB, universal receiver, no Y chromosome, white blood cells (that normally die after death).
Do a google search and you might find evidence of God’s Truth that unbelievers reject. Jesus is alone in the sanctuary, go visit a Catholic Church and keep Him company.
Npoe, I accept the scriptures in their entirety. And adhere to the Truth, He is Way to Life with the Father.
Why don’t you post a link. I’ll read it and get back to you.
Maybe if ‘Mary’ would actually SHOW herself to us Prots; instead of always you Catholics; it would actually count for something.
I see...
(Given to St. Dominic and Blessed Alan de la Roche)
| 1 | Whoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall receive powerful graces. |
| 2. | I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary. |
| 3. | The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies |
| 4. | It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of people from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means. |
| 5. | The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish. |
| 6. | Whoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying Himself to the consideration of its Sacred Mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise Him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just, he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of eternal life. |
| 7. | Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church. |
| 8. | Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plentitude of His graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the merits of the Saints in Paradise. |
| 9. | I shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary. |
| 10. | The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven. |
| 11. | You shall obtain all you ask of me by the recitation of the Rosary. |
| 12. | All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities. |
| 13. | I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire celestial court during their life and at the hour of death |
| 14. | All who recite the Rosary are my children, and brothers and sisters of my only Son, Jesus Christ. |
| 15. | Devotion of my Rosary is a great sign of predestination. |
"The Most Holy Virgin in these last times in which we live has given a new efficacy to the recitation of the Rosary to such an extent that there is no problem,
no matter how difficult it is, wheter temporal or above all spiritual, in the personal life of each one of us, of our families...that cannot be solved by the Rosary.
There is no problem, I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary."
Sister Lucia dos Santos
If Peter was the first pope and Christ created the Catholic church; how do we explain the problems of those seven catholic churches mentioned in Revelation?
Doctrine from Jesus or not?
Augustine (De bono viduitatis)
What’s this “we” sh!t, Kemosabe?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.