Posted on 07/13/2020 7:27:43 PM PDT by metmom
Again you mock and don’t believe the Words of Jesus and His Church.
Maybe one day you will understand and really believe God’s Truth and not sin against the 8th Commandment.
Your comment; “Peter is not the rock upon which the church is built.”
So you contradict God’s Truth? Begone Satan!
And look at the contrast between those "my/our way or the highway" folks and us here who preach Christ and Him crucified who don't even mention what church we attend seeing as it as immaterial to the truth of the gospel being made known. How many times have we been castigated because we refuse to give in to their demands that we MUST reveal our church affiliation? I had someone insist I tell her what "denominational" I was. I replied, non-denominational! Anger ensued. I think many just want to know so they can dig up any dirt they can in order to throw it in our faces and sidetrack the dialogue. I don't fall for it.
I'm more than happy to discuss any article of the Christian faith. Where I choose to fellowship with others in worship shouldn't matter because, as we have seen here so many times, church affiliation doesn't guarantee lock-step adherence to all the published dogmas and doctrines of that church. I'd much rather someone receive Christ as Savior than join "my" church. Joining a church is not the same thing. I trust God to lead them to a church fellowship where they can grow in their knowledge of the Lord and be edified and encouraged in their faith in Christ.
Um...no.
Staying right here
It doesn’t work that way!
Not to believers outside of your cult.
You see, cults ALWAYS have a similar pattern of excommunication...some call it that, some call it disfellowship. Same cult practice, different words. But since in not in the cult, you can’t Kik me out. I’m free in Christ and not prisoner to the cult. So...bad news for you...you have no power over me =o)
Go back to exorcism school at the cult.
Start with chapter one...
LATTER DAY PHARISEES
A self evaluation
BTW...shouldn’t you be out heaping burdens upon men’s backs?
Adding tasks and hardships upon them?
Don’t you have some whitewashed splecures to scour?
I find it interesting that the cult needs a protected safe space wherein they can be all puffed up without contrary views. But...BUT...they feel free to urinate all over a protestant thread. Oddly thin skinned and hypocritical dontchathink?
But, then again, Jesus did call the Pharisees hypocrites too.
Funny coincidence there eh?
Again...
Interesting...you failed to post Jesus’s next words to the fisherman...
[Peter] “...You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”
I know why you avoided this =o)
...you do too =o)
Deep inside there’s a problem with the cultish veneration of humans in the face of Jesus’s words above
And again I’ll post the blasphemous words of the pope...succession of Peter... for you, or anyone to defend. Just let me know. And to help you out, I’ll only post the blasphemous words going back six months, just to make it easier for y’all.
Lemme know =o)
And aren't YOU rejecting Jesus and His church when you refuse to acknowledge that non-Catholic Christians are part of Christ's church, His body??? Your claimed "infallible" teaching contradicts God's holy word.
Those who are “invincibly” ignorant concerning the truth of the above will not be culpable for this lack of knowledge before God. Those in the category of no knowledge of God have the real possibility of salvation even if they never come to an explicit knowledge of Christ and/or his Church.
If they "live according to the dictates of their own conscience" according to your catechism. So in other words, if they are good people they don't even have to believe in Jesus Christ - who declared that "no man cometh to the Father but by me". Explain how that doesn't contradict Scripture. Then Catholicism has the gall to claim they teach salvation by grace!
Those of us who have come out of the Roman religion - who were forced into it as babies by a false baptism - do KNOW what the Roman Catholic church claims for herself and we reject it because God has led us to the true knowledge of His grace. We rejoice in our salvation and live to please Him out of gratitude for His unspeakable gift of eternal life through faith alone in Christ alone and not in order to earn, deserve or merit it. You can go ahead and condemn me but I know Almighty God does not and that is what matters.
Elsie’s # 205 was sarcasm.
The common denominator in all of these debates is that we use Scripture to justify true salvation and grace and they use “canon” or ‘Catholic Tradition’ (man-made).
The Holy Spirit hit me right between the eyes with verse after verse. I could never deny it after that. I left the RCC without a whimper.
The cherry on top is that there really is no grace nor teaching of it in the RCC. It’s shame, constant shame. As if they thrive on the fear.
Same for me. It was when I was handed a Bible and asked to read John 10:27-30. I read:
That light switched on in my heart. Though no one told me to, I knew I didn't belong in the Roman Catholic religion I was raised in. There was no way I could turn my back on what God in His mercy showed me. And there was no way I could stay in a church that preached an accursed gospel.
The cherry on top is that there really is no grace nor teaching of it in the RCC. It’s shame, constant shame. As if they thrive on the fear.
It's a false grace. It's the idea that God's grace empowers you to merit salvation by your works as if the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross as the propitiation for all our sins was of no effect. This sacrifice only "opened to door to heaven" but we must get there by what we do for God - in order to deserve His grace. They have no idea what the term even means. Grace is undeserved favor. It is unmerited mercy. We can do nothing to make ourselves righteous enough for heaven. It is through Christ and His righteousness imputed to us that we are declared justified before God's eyes. By His grace we are saved through faith and not our works LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST. It is only after we come to saving faith that we start to do the kinds of works that God has prepared for us to walk in them - not in order to be or stay saved but because we ARE saved. He is working within us. We are new creatures in Christ. We can KNOW we have eternal life. Nothing Catholicism offers could ever make me give that up.
IZZAT so?
Do you truly do not understand the Bible and the Catholic faith or are you trying to mock Jesus and His Catholic Church?
Problem is that we DO 'understand' the catholic faith and we DO mock the Catholic Church.
(Why do you need the 'and's?)
There you go again; trying to prove your point with Catholic teaching instead of what the bible has plainly stated?
Sorry; but he cannot.The bible has only recorded 2 things* that he said from 'scripture'.
That leaves a whole that we can quote without ever having to worry that Satan said it first.
1 And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness 2 for forty days, being tempted by the devil. And he ate nothing during those days. And when they were ended, he was hungry. 3 The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread.” 4 And Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone.’” 5 And the devil took him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, 6 and said to him, “To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will. 7 If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.” 8 And Jesus answered him, “It is written,
“‘You shall worship the Lord your God,
and him only shall you serve.’”
9 And he took him to Jerusalem and set him on the pinnacle of the temple and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down from here, 10 for it is written,
“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
to guard you,’
11 and
“‘On their hands they will bear you up,
lest you strike your foot against a stone.’”
12 And Jesus answered him, “It is said, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’” 13 And when the devil had ended every temptation, he departed from him until an opportune time.
--Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV (A.D. 1215)
"We are compelled in virtue of our faith to believe and maintain that there is only one holy Catholic Church, and that one is apostolic. This we firmly believe and profess without qualification. Outside this Church there is no salvation and no remission of sins, the Spouse in the Canticle proclaiming: 'One is my dove, my perfect one. One is she of her mother, the chosen of her that bore her' (Canticle of Canticles 6:8); which represents the one mystical body whose head is Christ, of Christ indeed, as God. And in this, 'one Lord, one faith, one baptism' (Ephesians 4:5). Certainly Noah had one ark at the time of the flood, prefiguring one Church which perfect to one cubit having one ruler and guide, namely Noah, outside of which we read all living things were destroyed… We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff."
--Pope Boniface VIII, Bull Unam sanctam (A.D. 1302)
--Pope Boniface VIII, Bull Unam sanctam (A.D. 1302)
Well; except for the one we got now...
Peter is not the rock upon which the church is built.
As regards the oft-quoted Mt. 16:18, note the following Early Church Fathers promise in the profession of faith of Vatican 1:
• Basil of Seleucia, Oratio 25:
'You are Christ, Son of the living God.'...Now Christ called this confession a rock, and he named the one who confessed it 'Peter,' perceiving the appellation which was suitable to the author of this confession. For this is the solemn rock of religion, this the basis of salvation, this the wall of faith and the foundation of truth: 'For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus.' To whom be glory and power forever. — Oratio XXV.4, M.P.G., Vol. 85, Col. 296-297.
• Bede, Matthaei Evangelium Expositio, 3:
You are Peter and on this rock from which you have taken your name, that is, on myself, I will build my Church, upon that perfection of faith which you confessed I will build my Church by whose society of confession should anyone deviate although in himself he seems to do great things he does not belong to the building of my Church...Metaphorically it is said to him on this rock, that is, the Saviour which you confessed, the Church is to be built, who granted participation to the faithful confessor of his name. — 80Homily 23, M.P.L., Vol. 94, Col. 260. Cited by Karlfried Froehlich, Formen, Footnote #204, p. 156 [unable to verify by me].
• Cassiodorus, Psalm 45.5:
'It will not be moved' is said about the Church to which alone that promise has been given: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I shall build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.' For the Church cannot be moved because it is known to have been founded on that most solid rock, namely, Christ the Lord. — Expositions in the Psalms, Volume 1; Volume 51, Psalm 45.5, p. 455
• Chrysostom (John) [who affirmed Peter was a rock, but here not the rock in Mt. 16:18]:
Therefore He added this, 'And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church; that is, on the faith of his confession. — Chrysostom, Homilies on the Gospel of Saint Matthew, Homily LIIl; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf110.iii.LII.html)
• Cyril of Alexandria:
When [Peter] wisely and blamelessly confessed his faith to Jesus saying, 'You are Christ, Son of the living God,' Jesus said to divine Peter: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church.' Now by the word 'rock', Jesus indicated, I think, the immoveable faith of the disciple.”. — Cyril Commentary on Isaiah 4.2.
• Origen, Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII):
“For a rock is every disciple of Christ of whom those drank who drank of the spiritual rock which followed them, 1 Corinthians 10:4 and upon every such rock is built every word of the church, and the polity in accordance with it; for in each of the perfect, who have the combination of words and deeds and thoughts which fill up the blessedness, is the church built by God.'
“For all bear the surname ‘rock’ who are the imitators of Christ, that is, of the spiritual rock which followed those who are being saved, that they may drink from it the spiritual draught. But these bear the surname of rock just as Christ does. But also as members of Christ deriving their surname from Him they are called Christians, and from the rock, Peters.” — Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII), sect. 10,11 ( http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/101612.htm)
• Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II):
Thus our one immovable foundation, our one blissful rock of faith, is the confession from Peter's mouth, Thou art the Son of the living God. On it we can base an answer to every objection with which perverted ingenuity or embittered treachery may assail the truth."-- (Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II), para 23; Philip Schaff, editor, The Nicene & Post Nicene Fathers Series 2, Vol 9.
Again; ROME continues to DISOBEY the very clear words of JESUS:
Call no man father.
Poor, ol' ADSUM.
Continually being schooled by the Early Church Fathers...
• Augustine, sermon:
"Christ, you see, built his Church not on a man but on Peter's confession. What is Peter's confession? 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' There's the rock for you, there's the foundation, there's where the Church has been built, which the gates of the underworld cannot conquer. — John Rotelle, O.S.A., Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine , © 1993 New City Press, Sermons, Vol III/6, Sermon 229P.1, p. 327
Augustine, sermon:
Upon this rock, said the Lord, I will build my Church. Upon this confession, upon this that you said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,' I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer her (Mt. 16:18). — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 236A.3, p. 48.
• Augustine, sermon:
For petra (rock) is not derived from Peter, but Peter from petra; just as Christ is not called so from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. For on this very account the Lord said, 'On this rock will I build my Church,' because Peter had said, 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.' On this rock, therefore, He said, which thou hast confessed, I will build my Church. For the Rock (Petra) was Christ; and on this foundation was Peter himself built. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Christ Jesus. The Church, therefore, which is founded in Christ received from Him the keys of the kingdom of heaven in the person of Peter, that is to say, the power of binding and loosing sins. For what the Church is essentially in Christ, such representatively is Peter in the rock (petra); and in this representation Christ is to be understood as the Rock, Peter as the Church. — Augustine Tractate CXXIV; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: First Series, Volume VII Tractate CXXIV (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf107.iii.cxxv.html)
• Augustine, sermon:
And Peter, one speaking for the rest of them, one for all, said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God (Mt 16:15-16)...And I tell you: you are Peter; because I am the rock, you are Rocky, Peter-I mean, rock doesn't come from Rocky, but Rocky from rock, just as Christ doesn't come from Christian, but Christian from Christ; and upon this rock I will build my Church (Mt 16:17-18); not upon Peter, or Rocky, which is what you are, but upon the rock which you have confessed. I will build my Church though; I will build you, because in this answer of yours you represent the Church. — John Rotelle, O.S.A. Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1993), Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 270.2, p. 289
• Augustine, sermon:
Peter had already said to him, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' He had already heard, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not conquer her' (Mt 16:16-18)...Christ himself was the rock, while Peter, Rocky, was only named from the rock. That's why the rock rose again, to make Peter solid and strong; because Peter would have perished, if the rock hadn't lived. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 244.1, p. 95
• Augustine, sermon:
...because on this rock, he said, I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not overcome it (Mt. 16:18). Now the rock was Christ (1 Cor. 10:4). Was it Paul that was crucified for you? Hold on to these texts, love these texts, repeat them in a fraternal and peaceful manner. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1995), Sermons, Volume III/10, Sermon 358.5, p. 193
• Augustine, Psalm LXI:
Let us call to mind the Gospel: 'Upon this Rock I will build My Church.' Therefore She crieth from the ends of the earth, whom He hath willed to build upon a Rock. But in order that the Church might be builded upon the Rock, who was made the Rock? Hear Paul saying: 'But the Rock was Christ.' On Him therefore builded we have been. — Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1956), Volume VIII, Saint Augustin, Exposition on the Book of Psalms, Psalm LXI.3, p. 249. (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf108.ii.LXI.html)
• Augustine, in “Retractions,”
In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: 'On him as on a rock the Church was built.'...But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: 'Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,' that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,' and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received 'the keys of the kingdom of heaven.' For, 'Thou art Peter' and not 'Thou art the rock' was said to him. But 'the rock was Christ,' in confessing whom, as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter. But let the reader decide which of these two opinions is the more probable. — The Fathers of the Church (Washington D.C., Catholic University, 1968), Saint Augustine, The Retractations Chapter 20.1:.
Nope; merely show evidence of ROME's changeable 'truth'.
And straight from the horses mouth; too!
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