Posted on 05/08/2020 4:37:58 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. (Hebrews 11:4-6)
The famous “Faith Chapter” in the book of Hebrews, begins with two Saints, Abel and Enoch as examples of faith which we are to imitate. Faith is the point, for faith is the only way to please God.
I once asked the LORD, ‘Why Faith? Why is that what you require?” I believe I received several answers in the form of scripture and impressions, from the LORD. God requires faith, because we simply cannot save ourselves. Only God can save our souls, no one can redeem themselves, therefore Faith is required, because faith glorifies God and not man.
Another reason for the requirement of faith that came to me, is that our problems began when we quit believing in the goodness of God. Adam and Eve were willing to entertain a false and degraded notion of God, that He was holding something back that would be good for the first couple. The Serpent bore false witness about the LORD, and they believed it.
The way back? It has to be faith. We must repent and believe again in the goodness of God.
The “hall of faith” begins with Abel and Enoch. One Saint who was murdered for his faith, and for bearing witness to God in a hostile world. There would be literally millions upon millions who would follow in his footsteps, being willing to let go of their life rather than deny the truth of God.
The other Saint, Enoch, was a man who lived in a kind of “end times scenario” living in the time leading up to the flood. It was a day of Apostasy, but Enoch walked with God, until God took Him home. He didn’t die , He was raptured. God took him home, to be with himself.
Faith was required of each of them.
I believe that we also live in an end-time. I have no doubt that Jesus is coming, and in our lifetime. What makes us unique is the re-emergence of the nation of Israel, in 1948, in fulfillment of the prophecies about the last of the last days. All of the prophets pre-supposed that there would be a national Israel, and a Jewish occupied city of Jerusalem, as well as a controversy over Judea, (The West bank) which would engulf the whole world.
The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him. Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. (Zechariah 12:1-3)
Which brings us back to our two Saints at the beginning of Hebrews 11. One died, He was martyred for his witness to God. The other one did not die. He was Raptured. Both of these Saints lived by Faith and Pleased God.
I believe that this speaks to us in our generation.
No doubt. many of us will end up dying. Perhaps some of us will be given an opportunity to be martyred. We are Saints and love God, but all things being equal, unless the LORD returns, we will die, one way or another.
(Of course, Christians don’t really die, they “go to sleep”) but the real point is that Faith is the only way to please God.
But according to the scriptures, there is a unique end-times event, coming, as I hope I have pointed out in this series, called the Rapture, or “Our gathering together unto Him”, “the Episynagogue” and Jesus coming to “take us where (He)…is, unto himself”. The LORD is coming to snatch us off the earth with a swift and irresistable power”.
To participate in such an event is a rare honor among the countless Millions of Saints who believed in Jesus before us.
But whether we die, or are martyred, o whether we are raptured, the real point is that we must live our lives by Faith,which is the only way to please God.
This is why I do not enter into the countless discussions as to the timing of the Rapture. “Will The Rapture be pre- ,mid , or post Tribulation”?
Honesty, the only things I am sure about the Rapture at all are that it is:
* For God’s Saints only, and the prospect of it is a comfort.
* A Mystery revealed in the New Testament era.
* It occurs before the actual “Wrath ” of God.
* It involves the “dead in Christ” as well as “We who are alive, until the coming of the LORD”.
As far as I know, all else can only be speculation. God doesn’t want us to know the exact timing otherwise it would be clearer. I am glad there is a Rapture, and my prayer has always been that I be involved in it, while alive. But I cannot say with certainty what the timing of it is, so I don’t.
What counts is Faith in Jesus. Not dead works, but a living, vital, infectious faith. Let us have a faith which still moves us to confess and forsake our sins, to Love and seek God. To forgive and love our brothers, and a faith which moves us to share with others what God has shown to us. Is your faith alive? Do you have oil in your lamp? Are you current with God?
We Overcome the World by our faith. “This is the victory that overcometh the World…our faith”. We overcome the Spirit of antiChrist also, by our faith. So also we overcome the sins that so easily beset us, and the Coldness and soul deadening effect of this world, by our Faith.
Of course we want out of here, we can increasingly see that there is nothing in this World for we who believe, but rejection and opposition.I want Jesus to come, and Long for the Rapture. I am either going up in it, or I am gong to die, but one way or another we are leaving.
Either way, the point is Faith. So I will leave the timing of the Rapture to God, and just strive to be counted worthy to attain it, whether ded or alive.
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. (Luke 21:35)
Being delivered from sin's power over the flesh is a sanctification process, with ALL credit going to the One abiding in the born again spirit, as you yield to His directing. Ultimate delivery from sin is the moment HE transforms the individual in body and behavior mechanism as He gathers the Body of Christ to Himself for the trip to The Father's House where He has been preparing a place for each.
I will continue reading your posts and expect I will find you working to obtain as a theme. Catholicism is a works based belief system, whereby a process of working is how to obtain Justification, when the Word of God tells us it is an instantaneous event, to be followed by a process whereby the power of sin is broken, day by day, showing it is God Who is due the glory, not your working. Glorification is coming, sooner than you would like to admit, as the moment in the twinkling of an eye ALL dead believers are given a new body and behavior mechanism and we who are alive are also transformed and drawn to Him in the clouds for a trip to The Father's House, rescuing all of the Body of Christ from the wrath to come.
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep [k]in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive [l]and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a [m]shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive [n]and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.And very clearly in verse 7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto sanctification.
What does this actually teach?
St. Paul wrote to the Thessalnian Christians because they were worried about those who died before Christ's return. Many in the ancient world believed that a person simply ceased to exist upon death.
These was a rumor in Thessalonica at the time Paul wrote the letter that the dead Christians had lost out on any chance of a physical resurrection. St.Paul assures them that it was not so. In fact, "the dead in Christ will rise first" to meet Christ
Rapturists make the mistake of thinking "meet the Lord in the air" is about Christ not actually touching the earth.
The word St. Paul uses for meeting the Lord "in the air" is aer the Greek word for atmosphere
This SAME word is used in Ephesians 2:2
And you [a]were dead [b]in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the [c]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.yet no one would claim that, because of this word, Satan wouldn't influence people on the earth
A consistent rapturist reading of this wod here would mean that only airplane passengers are influenced by Satan's power
NO, when Christ returns to the earth's atmosphere, He has returned to earth
Rapturists trying to point to the "coming in the clouds" -- but this ignores the symbol of divinity in the clouds
The Bible uses three Greek words interchangeably
Rapturists think that there is a different usage for each, but that is false - parousia is not used just for some fake "rapture" and the others for the 2nd coming
Paul doesn't mention this 19th century rapture idea as occuring before the appearance of the antichrist and before the second coming is simple: it never entered into his mind that anyone would believe Christ would rapture His Church before the final Eschaton
In the apocalypse, that is referred to as the battle with Gog and Magog, Christians will participate in that confrontation because there will be no secret rapture before it. Our comfort rests in Him who will emerge from that confrontation as the Victor.
THAT is the reassurance Paul offers, not the promise of an escape from the great Tribulation.
BOTH passages speak of the second advent as unmistakably obvious. There is nothing secret about lightning, cries of command, angel calls or trumpets
Not understanding what happens the MOMENT we believe God's Promise of Whom He sent for our Salvation, you mistakenly espouse a need for 'soul cleansing', in a mythical purgatory. The soul as part of the flesh (body and behavior mechanism) is not redeemed, it is discarded the moment He gathers US unto Himself for the trip to the Father's House.
Jesus did not go to that cross to save your sin-laden behavior mechanism. His focus was upon what died in Eden when our father Adam sinned. The animating spirit in the spirit of Adam left, leaving a dead spirit behind, in a still active soul (behavior mechanism). Jesus died so that we may have life more abundant ... making our spirit alive with His Righteousness IMPUTED to us by our belief in Whom God sent for our Salvation. The Word of God tells you that it is God Who is in you both to will and do of His good pleasure. God's Word tells you that GOD's seed abides in you if you are born again, born again by trusting in Whom God sent for your borning again.
A Christian grows in grace and knowledge, not by you working but by you yielding to the leadership of HIS PRESENCE in the alive spirit.
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised [r]imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this [s]perishable must put on [t]the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.BUT you excerpt instead of looking at the whole chapter, let's look at 15:20-26
The Order of Resurrection 20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in [h]Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, 24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death.The order is clear
First, Christ was raised bodily from the dead. This event stands as a prophecy concerning our own personal future. Christ was the first fruit of those who have salled asleep
Second, Christians will be raised from the dead.
Third the end comes
THAT is the order. This is NOT the Rapturist timeline
Paul lays out a timeline that excludes the possibility of any pre-Trib secret rapture -- there is NO mention of a two-stage coming split into a secret rapture and a later public second eventthere is not even a hint of a secret rapture
There is one resurrection mentioned (not two as per the rapturists) and only one coming event -- immediately after this coming, not seven or 1000 or 1007 years later, the end arrives at which Christ delivered the Kingdom to God
Now we go onwards to 1 Corinthians 51-54
Rapturists like you say this is about a secret rap-game. But why? there is certainly nothing in this text that cannot be understood perfectly well as happening at the traditional second coming. In fact that is a better was to understand the text. Paul tells us that not all Christians will die, but that "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye... we shall all be changed"
We read that this will occur "at the last trumpet" -- the image of trumpets like in Zeph 1:14-16, Zech 9:14, Amos 3:6 etc. is LOUD and no secret rapture
Furthermore, this si not just any trumpet - this is the "last" trumpet The dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed at the end of time
But this last trumpet will not occur 7 or 1007 years before the end. The LAST trumpet sounds LAST
"When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: 'Death is swallowed up in victory'" At the time of this trumpet, death will be destroyed -- YET Paul has ALREADY mentioned that "the last enemy to be destroyed is death" (1 Cor. 15:26)
The secret rapture does not fit this passage. When death is destroyed and we are all raised, all tombs will be forever empty
Jesus referred to being born from the water world of the womb, then reinforced the statement by saying what is born of flesh is flesh. The spirit is not the flesh, so Jesus tells Nic what is born of the spirit is spirit, contrasting that to what is born of the flesh.
In that same scene, Jesus goes on to give Nicodemus a fact that is not explained anywhere in the Old Testament regarding the snake on the pole. Jesus points to the activatingpower of belief, not works, belief. Those who just looked upon the brass snake on the pole believing God's Promise regarding snake bite were delivered from the sanke poison.
Sin is poison. Believing God's Promise delivers one from the poison, thus believing GOD is the means by which Life comes to the spirit. Not by works of righteousness but by His Spirit ... that Spirit abides in the spirit of the born again. (1 John 3:9)
In 2 Thessalonians, Paul is writing shortly before the Jewish-Roman War begins in 67 AD
[1] And we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our gathering together unto him: [2] That you be not easily moved from your sense, nor be terrified, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by epistle, as sent from us, as if the day of the Lord were at hand. [3] Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, [4] Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God. [5] Remember you not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things?The REVOLT - the Jewish revolt in 67 AD. The Man of Sin - Nero. And then Nero's statue in the temple.
[6] And now you know what withholdeth, that he may be revealed in his time. [7] For the mystery of iniquity already worketh; only that he who now holdeth, do hold, until he be taken out of the way. [8] And then that wicked one shall be revealed whom the Lord Jesus shall kill with the spirit of his mouth; and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming, him, [9] Whose coming is according to the working of Satan, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders, [10] And in all seduction of iniquity to them that perish; because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying:
Rapturists make the false claim that Christians had been secretly raptured 3.5 years before the Temple worship was corrupted
But this is deceptive and FALSE. Paul wrote Thessalonians to encourage a group of Christians who were afraid they had been "left behind" yet he explicitly does NOT speak of the "blessed hope of the rapture" to comfort the worried Thessalonians. NOWHERE in this passage is there even a message of the rapture. In this passage the rapture is missing in action.
The reason Paul does not mention the rapture as occuring before the appearance of the antichrist and before the second coming is simple: it never entered into his mind that anyone would believe Christ would rapture His Church before the final eschaton
And finally 1 John 3:9 “Committeth not sin”: That is, as long as he keepeth in himself this seed of grace, and this divine generation, by which he is born of God. But then he may fall from this happy state, by the abuse of his free will, as appears from Rom. 11. 20-22; Cor. 9. 27; and 10. 12; Phil. 2. 12; Apoc. 3. 11.
John 3:2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. English Standard Version
The theme is being BORN AGAIN, so Jesus takes Nicodemus from his earthly perspective (born of the flesh, born from the water world) and directs his perspective to the spirit. Again, the theme is being born again, the reference to born from the water as being born of flesh, then being born again, born in the spirit. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; that which is born (again) of the spirit is spirit. Baptism does not save. It is a work and Salvation is not obtained by your works.
As conclusively proven above - the very concept of the rapture is not in the Bible. The rapture concept - a secret taking away is contrary to the Pauline passages you refer to MHG
your passages show excerpts and then the conclusions in your post are against what Jesus taught
Has the wackadoodlisms of non-christianity twisted your mind to ignore the context?
Jesus clarified His words for you and you ignore it so you can cling to a false notion
The only biblical use of the term “born again” occurs in John 3:3-5—although, as we shall see, similar and related expressions such as “new birth” and “regeneration” occur elsewhere in Scripture (Titus 3:5; 1 Pet 1:3, 23). In John 3:3, Jesus tells Nicodemus, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” The Greek expression translated “born again” (gennathei anothen) also means “born from above.” Jesus, it seems, makes a play on words with Nicodemus, contrasting earthly life, or what theologians would later dub natural life (”what is born of flesh”), with the new life of heaven, or what they would later call supernatural life (”what is born of Spirit”).
Nicodemus’ reply: “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” (John 3:4). Does he simply mistake Jesus to be speaking literally or is Nicodemus himself answering figuratively, meaning, “How can an old man learn new ways as if he were a child again?” We cannot say for sure, but in any case Jesus answers, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, `You must be born again.”’ (John 3:5-7).
Here Jesus equates “born again” or “born from above” with “born of water and the Spirit.”
Clearly, the context implies that born of “water and the Spirit” refers to baptism.
1 John 3:9 [9] "Committeth not sin": That is, as long as he keepeth in himself this seed of grace, and this divine generation, by which he is born of God. But then he may fall from this happy state, by the abuse of his free will, as appears from Rom. 11. 20-22; Cor. 9. 27; and 10. 12; Phil. 2. 12; Apoc. 3. 11.
Why do you persist in closing your ears and mind to Jesus' teachings?
Paul is making it clear that God has not called us to continue in the flesh but to a process of sanctification whereby our behavior mechanism while on Earth is transformed by the renewing of the mind of the flesh. This PROCESS of sanctification can only happen where God's Spirit is directing the transformation. The born again are already Justified, now they are being transformed to illustrate to the rest of humanity that GOD will do what He Promises (Faithful is He that calleth you for He will also do it).
The underlined above IS the context you are leaving out! God IN US directing the transforming by renewing the mind of our fleshly soul.
Apparently, you do not know what is the FIRST HEAVEN, so you cannot differentiate first, second or third, The Throne Room of God. The atmosphere is the first heaven. Jesus comes to the first heaven to gather us UP unto Himself. We go up to meet Him. Seven years later, thereabouts, He returns, with us, to touch down on the planet.
We are not appointed to wrath but to obtain/receive 'escape'. Read it in your DR, 1 Thess1:10:
10 And to wait for his Son from heaven (whom he raised up from the dead), Jesus, who hath delivered us from the wrath to come.
You are in error, as illustrated with 1Thess1:10 from your own DR Bible!
It does not fit in your catholiciism drenched mind of your soul.
Read the earlier translation and see that those translators (including Iraenaus) referred to departure, not departure from faith but a physical departure, as in a ship disappearing over the horizon.
Catholiciism has fashioned a religion 'like' Christianity but not Christianity. Jesus coming to the first Heaven is not the sme as coming to the Earth. The first heaven extends out into the entire solar system. The first heaven is not clean, presently. Consider all the filth being projected into the air via energy wabes. THAT filth will be cleansed BEFORE Christ descends into the first Heaven.
The trumpet referred to could be the same way the tribes were set in motion amrching across the wilderness. A final trumpet was sounded which set the people in motion from their encampment. But of course as a Catholic mind, you would not even consider such because it immediately ends the false premise you hold so dear.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.