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To: MHGinTN; Red6
1 Thess 4:13-17 or rather the whole 1 Thess 4
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep [k]in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive [l]and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a [m]shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive [n]and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
And very clearly in verse 7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto sanctification.

What does this actually teach?

St. Paul wrote to the Thessalnian Christians because they were worried about those who died before Christ's return. Many in the ancient world believed that a person simply ceased to exist upon death.

These was a rumor in Thessalonica at the time Paul wrote the letter that the dead Christians had lost out on any chance of a physical resurrection. St.Paul assures them that it was not so. In fact, "the dead in Christ will rise first" to meet Christ

Rapturists make the mistake of thinking "meet the Lord in the air" is about Christ not actually touching the earth.

The word St. Paul uses for meeting the Lord "in the air" is aer the Greek word for atmosphere

This SAME word is used in Ephesians 2:2

And you [a]were dead [b]in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the [c]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
yet no one would claim that, because of this word, Satan wouldn't influence people on the earth

A consistent rapturist reading of this wod here would mean that only airplane passengers are influenced by Satan's power

NO, when Christ returns to the earth's atmosphere, He has returned to earth

Rapturists trying to point to the "coming in the clouds" -- but this ignores the symbol of divinity in the clouds

The Bible uses three Greek words interchangeably

  1. parousia - coming
  2. epiphaneia appearing
  3. apokalupsis revelation

Rapturists think that there is a different usage for each, but that is false - parousia is not used just for some fake "rapture" and the others for the 2nd coming

Paul doesn't mention this 19th century rapture idea as occuring before the appearance of the antichrist and before the second coming is simple: it never entered into his mind that anyone would believe Christ would rapture His Church before the final Eschaton

In the apocalypse, that is referred to as the battle with Gog and Magog, Christians will participate in that confrontation because there will be no secret rapture before it. Our comfort rests in Him who will emerge from that confrontation as the Victor.

THAT is the reassurance Paul offers, not the promise of an escape from the great Tribulation.

803 posted on 06/15/2020 6:29:41 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
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To: Cronos
Read your DR Bible again; 7For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto sanctification. 8Therefore, he that despiseth these things, despiseth not man, but God, who also hath given his holy Spirit in us.

Paul is making it clear that God has not called us to continue in the flesh but to a process of sanctification whereby our behavior mechanism while on Earth is transformed by the renewing of the mind of the flesh. This PROCESS of sanctification can only happen where God's Spirit is directing the transformation. The born again are already Justified, now they are being transformed to illustrate to the rest of humanity that GOD will do what He Promises (Faithful is He that calleth you for He will also do it).

The underlined above IS the context you are leaving out! God IN US directing the transforming by renewing the mind of our fleshly soul.

814 posted on 06/15/2020 7:18:10 AM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: Cronos

Apparently, you do not know what is the FIRST HEAVEN, so you cannot differentiate first, second or third, The Throne Room of God. The atmosphere is the first heaven. Jesus comes to the first heaven to gather us UP unto Himself. We go up to meet Him. Seven years later, thereabouts, He returns, with us, to touch down on the planet.


815 posted on 06/15/2020 7:21:06 AM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: Cronos
When He comes to gather His Body of Believers and return to the Father's House, I assure you it will not be a secret. You will experience the effects of His raising all died believers from the dead and the transformation of all who are alive at that moment. Just do not take the mark which will be commanded to you thereafter, on earth, during the increasing wrath of God.

We are not appointed to wrath but to obtain/receive 'escape'. Read it in your DR, 1 Thess1:10:

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven (whom he raised up from the dead), Jesus, who hath delivered us from the wrath to come.

816 posted on 06/15/2020 7:27:32 AM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: Cronos

You are in error, as illustrated with 1Thess1:10 from your own DR Bible!


817 posted on 06/15/2020 7:28:37 AM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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