The biggest threat to Christians is the teaching of a pre-tribulation rapture

Noq report ^ | 23 May 2019 | Jd Rucker

[Mom MD]

One problem. Revelation was written significantly after the fall of Jerusalem. Other than that you are right on.

[G Larry]

That IS the Second coming of Christ!

There is no Rapture.

[MHGinTN]

That little spew is a lie. Don’t repeat lies, they become your load of sin when you do.

[Cronos]

Enoch’s taking up to heaven dovetails into Scripture whereas a pre-Trib Rap is in contradiction to the overall picture of the last days painted by the New Testament.

The pre-Trib Rapture is not part of the Christian Faith. Despite its popularity among U.S. Christians, the belief has no basis in Scripture and directly contradicts two millennia of Christianity teaching stating how in the last days, the Church will share Christ’s Passion in an intense way, and then at His return, His Resurrection.

In 1 Thessalonians, Paul says nothing about the believers being raptured away so as to escape persecution Instead, those translated directly from earthly existence to glory are those who are “alive,” who are “left.”

Read within its historical context, Paul is probably likening the Lord’s return to that of a victorious general. As the conqueror returned to Rome, he would stop outside the city, and wait for his family to be brought to him. Once his entourage was fully assembled they would enter the city together, amidst fanfare and celebration.

In Matthew 24, who is taken? it is the unrighteous! “As [in] the days of Noah,…the flood came and swept them all away.”

in Jesus’ example it is the righteous who are “left behind.” Jesus gave a similar description earlier in Matthew:

[Cronos]

This idea that the Church will not suffer the great tribulation is completely unbiblical, and at odds with historic Christianity. Jesus, the Master, suffered. Eleven of the twelve Apostles died as martyrs; there have been martyrs throughout Jewish and Christian history. To believe in a rapture of the Church, so as to save it from suffering, flies in the face of this.

[Mom MD]

Believe what you want. Be careful about being authoritative on things open to interpretation.

[imardmd1]

there are 2 second comings of Christ.

Well, sort of. There is only OE Second Coming, but it is in two stages. His First Coming was uin two stages also, as was the giving of His Word. In the first stage of His First Coming, Jesus came as a Babe, God in the flesh, to his own, privately, about much of which we know little except the evidentiary signs that confirm ancient prophecy and of His conformance to the Mosaic/Daviduc Covenant under which He lived. Only Joseph and Mary were aware of His Deity.

In the second stage of His First Coming, John Baptist was appointed by God to announce Jesus' coming as Messiah, which was confirmed to him by the coming of the Holy Ghost and the Father's audible word, as he publicly baptized Jesus, and His public ministry of forgiveness of sins began.

In the same fashion, Jesus' Second Coming will be in two stages, the first being His appearance in the clouds FOR His Own, a private occurrence not immediately seen by the world of people generally. The saints then rising to meet Him will be all those souls regenerated in the Age of Grace, the end of which will be the cessation of the dwelling of the Holy Spirit within the believer, and is exactly why such reborn humans cannot go through the tribulation. It narks the moment when the Holy Spirit withdraws Himself, together within whom He dwells, from the world and into Heaven.

The second stage of His Second Coming WITH His Own, His Bride the Assembly of Spirit-born saints, during which "every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him" (Rev. 1:7). In that stage, he will begin by drawing the existing nations up for judging and disposal, faollowed by instituting His Kingdom of Righteousness and Peace across the entire globe, with the center of government being at Jerusalem, and its management under the descended David as His Viceroy.

Here is an heuristic graphical diagram illustrating the place of the Premillennial Rapture. You can follow this by reading more about it on this site:

[Cronos]

G Larry

There is NO RAPTURE!!

It contradicts the Second Coming of Christ.

Very well said

[Mom MD]

there is a difference between tribulation which is very real and suffered by christians everywhere and THE tribulation which is the pouring out of Gods Wrath. We are not appointed to wrath and will be saved from it. That is Biblical.

[Mom MD]

I hope some day to see the look of surprise on your face when you are raptured

[bethelgrad]

Would you happen to be a reader of Rethinking Hell?

[MHGinTN]

As usual, excellent point!

[Mom MD]

That is exactly what I was referring to you just say it better

[Cronos]

Mom MD there are 2 second comings of Christ.

Apologies Mom, but don't you see the error in that? There are 2 second places in a race?

Meaning there is a second and a third.

So essentially that statement says that there will be a second and a third coming of Christ

[MayflowerMadam]

“Threat” is a bit much. It’s a different take on a doctrine, but hardly a threat.

[Cronos]

the big signal that starts the seven-year clock: the signing of a peace treaty in the Middle East.

Let's see

Egypt - Israel: 1979 --> so 7 years later was 1986. hmmm... nothing

And that's moving goalposts - other pre-Tribs go with the founding of Israel (1948) and then try and stretch One generation as long as possible

[imardmd1]

Your two descriptions are just parts of the overall spectrum of individuals who say/believe they are Christians, but are not Spirit-born true regenerated pardoned (= “justified”) children of God, who cannot and will not ever “fall away.”

[nonsporting]

Rapture wasn’t INVENTED until 1830.

If you mean "pre-tribulation" rapture, then I'd basically agree -- still have to work out the ordering of events.

As for "rapture", this is a good bible word.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18)

"[we] shall be caught up" is English for ἁρπαγησόμεθα -- from [harpazo] seize, catch up, snatch away.

The Latin vulgate translates this as "rapiemur" from "rapio,-ere" -- to seize, snatch, tear away. "raptum" from which we get "rapture" is the perfect passive participle. "rapti" would refer to those raptured.

The question is not IF but WHEN. The Bible in Matthew 23, Mark 13, and Revelation 7,8 and Revelation 13,14 make a very strong case for a post-tribulation, pre-wrath rapture. The saints will have tribulation in this world.

John 16:33 King James Version (KJV) 33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

And some saints will know GREAT tribulation -- Matthew 24:21ff. But, before He pores out his wrath, He returns for His own:

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24:29-31)

See After the Tribulation.

These events are detailed and Bibically explained without the twisting of scripture which is most commonly done on this subject. Let's let the Bible speak simply and clearly on this subject. Revelation does just that: it reveals. (I do no agree with most IFB doctrines, but this video soundly lays out the doctrine.)

[MHGinTN]

You are under a false delusion. There are numerous WRITTEN texts which deal with the issue now reaching back to three hundred AD. Funny that a Roman Catholic cannot see the total fabrication religion of Catholicism yet professes to see the pre-trib and Rapture in general as made up. Odd that ... typical of satanic brilliance.

[ShackledNoMore]

Look to the Word my dear Sister in Christ:

Hebrews 11:31

By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.[d]

32 And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were put to death by stoning;[e] they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.

39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

These examples to us from the HOLY SPIRIT were given as great Men and Women of Faith..... they DIED....for Jesus.

Are we better than they?

John was the ‘greatest of men born of women’.....he DIED in a cold, damp, dark dungeon....his head cut off.

Are we better than John?

God put his OWN SON on the Cross......to DIE.....

Are we better than Christ?

ALL the disciples died for their faith.....

Are we better than they?

There will be tribulation....and we who are alive will go thru it....and many will die. I could begin to ‘teach’ the Great Tribulation to this blog...but many have simply hardened their heart to any ‘pain’....and scoffs at the FACT the precious in the sight of the Lord is the DEATH of his saints.

Best to you ....Always in His abundant love.