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Catholicism made me Protestant
First Things ^ | 9/11/2019 | Onsi A. Kamel

Posted on 09/11/2019 10:52:15 AM PDT by Gamecock

Like all accounts of God’s faithfulness, mine begins with a genealogy. In the late seventeenth century, my mother’s Congregationalist ancestors journeyed to the New World to escape what they saw as England’s deadly compromise with Romanism. Centuries later, ­American Presbyterians converted my father’s great-­grandmother from Coptic ­Orthodoxy to ­Protestantism. Her son became a Presbyterian minister in the Evangelical Coptic Church. By the time my parents were ­living in ­twenty-first-century Illinois, their families’ historic Reformed commitments had been replaced by non-denominational, ­Baptistic ­evangelicalism.

This form of Christianity dominated my Midwestern hometown. My parents taught me to love God, revere the Scriptures, and seek truth through reason. In middle school, my father introduced me to theology, and as a present for my sixteenth birthday he arranged a meeting between me and a Catholic philosopher, Dr. B—. From high school into college, Dr. B— introduced me to Catholic thought and graciously helped me work through my doubts about Christianity. How could a just and loving God not reveal himself equally to everyone? What are we to make of the Bible’s creation stories and flood narrative? Did Calvinism make God the author of evil? My acquaintance with Dr. B— set my intellectual trajectory for several years.

The causes of any conversion (or near conversion) are many and confused. Should I foreground psychological and social factors or my theological reasoning? Certain elements of my attraction to Catholicism were adolescent, like a sixties radical’s attraction to Marx or a contemporary activist’s to intersectionality: I aimed to preserve the core beliefs of my upbringing while fleeing their bourgeois expressions. When I arrived at the University of Chicago, I knew just enough about Calvinism to hold it in ­contempt—which is to say, I knew very little. Reacting against the middle-aged leaders of the inaptly named “Young, Restless, and Reformed Movement,” I sought refuge in that other great ­Western ­theological tradition: ­Roman ­Catholicism.

During my first year of college, I became involved in campus Catholic life. Through the influence of the Catholic student group and the Lumen Christi Institute, which hosts lectures by Catholic intellectuals, my theologically inclined college friends began converting to Catholicism, one after another. These friends were devout, intelligent, and schooled in Christian history. I met faithful and holy Catholic priests—one of whom has valiantly defended the faith for years, drawing punitive opposition from his own religious superiors, as well as the ire of Chicago’s archbishop. This priest was and is to me the very model of a holy, righteous, and courageous man.

I loved Catholicism because Catholics taught me to love the Church. At Lumen Christi events, I heard about saints and mystics, stylites and monastics, desert fathers and late-antique theologians. I was captivated by the holy martyrs, relics, Mary, and the Mass. I found in the Church a spiritual mother and the mother of all the faithful. Through Catholicism, I came into an inheritance: a past of saints and redeemed sinners from all corners of the earth, theologians who illuminated the deep things of God, music and art that summon men to worship God “in the beauty of holiness,” and a tradition to ground me in a world of flux.

Catholicism, which I took to be the Christianity of history, was a world waiting to be discovered. I set about exploring, and I tried to bring others along. I debated tradition with my mother, sola Scriptura with my then fiancée (now wife), and the meaning of the Eucharist with my father. On one occasion, a Reformed professor dispensed with my arguments for transubstantiation in a matter of minutes.

Not long after this, I began to notice discrepancies between Catholic apologists’ map of the tradition and the terrain I encountered in the tradition itself. St. Ambrose’s doctrine of justification sounded a great deal more like Luther’s sola fide than like Trent. St. John Chrysostom’s teaching on repentance and absolution—“Mourn and you annul the sin”—would have been more at home in Geneva than Paris. St. Thomas’s doctrine of predestination, much to my horror, was nearly identical to the Synod of Dordt’s. The Anglican divine Richard Hooker quoted Irenaeus, ­Chrysostom, ­Augustine, and Pope Leo I as he rejected doctrines and practices because they were not grounded in Scripture. He cited Pope Gregory the Great on the “­ungodly” title of universal bishop. The Council of ­Nicaea assumed that Alexandria was on a par with Rome, and Chalcedon declared that the Roman patriarchate was privileged only “because [Rome] was the royal city.” In short, I began to wonder whether the Reformers had a legitimate claim to the Fathers. The Church of Rome could not be straightforwardly identified as catholic.

John Henry Newman became my crucial interlocutor: More than in Ratzinger, Wojtyła, or Congar, in Newman I found a kindred spirit. Here was a man obsessed with the same questions that ate at me, questions of tradition and authority. With Newman, I agonized over conversion. I devoured his Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine and his Apologia pro Vita Sua. Two of his ideas were pivotal for me: his theory of doctrinal development and his articulation of the problem of private judgment. On these two ideas hung all the claims of Rome.

In retrospect, I see that Newman’s need to construct a theory of doctrinal development tells against Rome’s claims of continuity with the ancient Church. And at the time, though I wished to accept Newman’s proposal that “the early condition, and the evidence, of each doctrine . . . ought consistently to be interpreted by means of that development which was ultimately attained,” I could not. One could only justify such assumptions if one were already committed to Roman Catholic doctrine and Rome’s meaningful continuity with what came before. Without either of these commitments, I simply could not find a plausible reason to speak of “development” rather than “disjuncture,” especially because what came before so often contradicted what followed.

The issue of ecclesiastical authority was trickier for me. I recognized the absurdity of a twenty-year-old presuming to adjudicate claims about the Scriptures and two thousand years of history. Newman’s arguments against private judgment therefore had a prima facie plausibility for me. In his Apologia, Newman argues that man’s rebellion against God introduced an “anarchical condition of things,” leading human thought toward “suicidal excesses.” Hence, the fittingness of a divinely established living voice infallibly proclaiming supernatural truths. In his discourse on “Faith and Private Judgment,” Newman castigates Protestants for refusing to “surrender” reason in matters religious. The implication is that reason is unreliable in matters of revelation. Faith is assent to the incontestable, self-evident truth of God’s revelation, and reasoning becomes an excuse to refuse to bend the knee.

The more I internalized ­Newman’s claims about private judgment, however, the more I descended into skepticism. I could not reliably interpret the Scriptures, history, or God’s Word preached and given in the sacraments. But if I could not do these things, if my reason was unfit in matters religious, how was I to assess Newman’s arguments for Roman Catholicism? Newman himself had once recognized this dilemma, writing in a pre-conversion letter, “We have too great a horror of the principle of private judgment to trust it in so immense a matter as that of changing from one communion to another.” Did he expect me to forfeit the faculty by which I adjudicate truth claims, because that faculty is fallible? My ­conversion would have to be rooted in my private ­judgment—but, because of Rome’s claim of infallibility, conversion would forbid me from exercising that faculty ever again on doctrinal questions.

Finally, the infighting among traditionalist, conservative, and liberal Catholics made plain that Catholics did not gain by their magisterium a clear, living voice of divine authority. They received from the past a set of magisterial documents that had to be weighed and interpreted, often over against living prelates. The ­magisterium of prior ages only multiplied the texts one had to interpret for oneself, for living bishops, it turns out, are as bad at reading as the rest of us.

But I did not remain a Protestant merely because I could not become a Catholic. While I was discovering that Roman Catholicism could not be straightforwardly identified with the catholicism of the first six centuries (nor, in certain respects, with that of the seventh century through the twelfth), and as I was wrestling with Newman, I finally began reading the Reformers. What I found shocked me. Catholicism had, by this time, reoriented my theological concerns around the concerns of the Church catholic. My assumptions, and the issues that animated me, were those of the Church of history. My evangelical upbringing had led me to believe that Protestantism entailed the rejection of these concerns. But this notion exploded upon contact with the Protestantism of history.

Martin Luther, John Calvin, Richard Hooker, Herman Bavinck, Karl Barth—they wrestled with the concerns of the Church catholic and provided answers to the questions Catholicism had taught me to pose. Richard Hooker interpreted the Church’s traditions; Calvin followed Luther’s Augustinianism, proclaimed the visible Church the mother of the faithful, and claimed for the Reformation the Church’s exegetical tradition; Barth convinced me that God’s Word could speak, certainly and surely, from beyond all created realities, to me.

Catholicism had taught me to think like a Protestant, because, as it turned out, the Reformers had thought like catholics. Like their pope-aligned opponents, they had asked questions about justification, the authority of tradition, the mode of Christ’s self-gift in the Eucharist, the nature of apostolic succession, and the Church’s wielding of the keys. Like their opponents, Protestants had appealed to Scripture and tradition. In time, I came to find their answers not only plausible, but more faithful to Scripture than the Catholic answers, and at least as well-represented in the traditions of the Church.

The Protestants did more than out-catholic the Catholics. They also spoke to the deepest needs of sinful souls. I will never forget the moment when, like Luther five hundred years earlier, I discovered justification by faith alone through union with Christ. I was sitting in my dorm room by myself. I had been assigned Luther’s Explanations of the Ninety-Five ­Theses, and I expected to find it facile. A year or two prior, I had decided that Trent was right about justification: It was entirely a gift of grace consisting of the gradual perfecting of the soul by faith and works—God instigating and me cooperating. For years, I had attempted to live out this model of justification. I had gone to Mass regularly, prayed the rosary with friends, fasted frequently, read the Scriptures daily, prayed earnestly, and sought advice from spiritual directors. I had begun this arduous cooperation with God’s grace full of hope; by the time I sat in that dorm room alone, I was distraught and demoralized. I had learned just how wretched a sinner I was: No good work was unsullied by pride, no repentance unaccompanied by expectations of future sin, no love free from selfishness.

In this state, I picked up my copy of that arch-heretic Luther and read his explanation of Thesis 37: “Any true Christian, whether living or dead, participates in all the blessings of Christ and the church; and this is granted him by God, even without indulgence letters.” With these words, Luther transformed my understanding of justification: Every Christian possesses Christ, and to possess Christ is to possess all of Christ’s righteousness, life, and merits. Christ had joined me to himself.

I had “put on Christ” in baptism and, by faith through the work of the Spirit, all things were mine, and I was Christ’s, and Christ was God’s (Gal. 3:27; 1 Cor. 3:21–23). His was not an uncertain mercy; his was not a grace of parts, which one hoped would become a whole; his was not a salvation to be attained, as though it were not already also a present possession. At that moment, the joy of my salvation poured into my soul. I wept and showed forth God’s praise. I had finally discovered the true ground and power of Protestantism: “My beloved is mine, and I am his” (Song 2:16).

Rome had brought me to ­Reformation.


TOPICS: Catholic; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: catholic; charismatic; conversion; evangelical; kamel; onsiakamel; protestantism; romancatholic; romancatholicism; tiber
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To: Luircin
"Ye see then how that by works a man is * justified, and not** by faith only." - James 2:24 (KJV)

Don't get me wrong, I can easily see how you can neatly interpret this in a quite opposite sense.

All you have to do is move the word "not" from position (*) to position (**)

Please don't slam me for this one, I got it from a Lutheran friend who used to have a blog, since discontinued, called "RSV: Reversed Standard Version."

181 posted on 09/12/2019 12:08:13 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." - James 2:24 (KJV))
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To: metmom
//Additionally, as with Romans and Galatians, the works to which Paul is referring in Ephesians are the works of the Mosaic Law, not the avoidance of sin.//

And the difference.......

The failure, or refusal, to recognize the difference between the eternal law of God and the Mosaic Law is at the heart of the Protestants' misunderstanding of Paul. Circumcision and the Mosaic Law were provisional and limited to the Jewish nation. Non-Jews committed no sin for not following them, nor did the Jews before the establishment of the covenants with Abraham and Moses. With the establishment of the New Covenant in Jesus Christ, no one sins for not keeping the Mosaic Law.

The moral law of God found in the Ten Commandments, however, is eternal and universal. Although their final form is found in the commandments given to Moses, they predate that event. Idolotry, murder, theft, adultery, etc. were already sins before Moses received the two tablets. They are also binding on both Jew and non-Jew alike. Did not Cain sin when he killed his brother even though Moses had not yet received the Ten Commandments? Of course. Thus, even when with the establishment of the New Covenant in Jesus Christ, the eternal moral law of God summarized in the Ten Commandments remains. We can see this in the response of our Lord to the rich young man:

Now someone approached him and said, “Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?” He answered him, “Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” He asked him, “Which ones?” And Jesus replied, “ ‘You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; honor your father and your mother’; and ‘you shall love your neighbor as yourself.’” (Matthew 19:16-19)
Notice that the commandments that one must keep to enter into life are those of the Ten Commandments, not circumcision or those of the Mosaic Law.
182 posted on 09/12/2019 12:08:27 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Since you are so fond of this misinterpretation of James, what are the works YOU deem sufficient to add to the Righteousness of Christ on your behalf? The works James refers to are the evidence of God in one, showing the justification of God’s choice to seal the human spirit with the Righteousness of Christ. The justification is not gaining salvation/birth from above it is showing it HAS HAPPENED.


183 posted on 09/12/2019 12:11:01 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: fidelis
"I will never forget the moment when, like Luther five hundred years earlier, I discovered justification by faith alone through union with Christ." Someone help me out here and provide me with where in the Bible this is taught. Not looking for an argument or deflection, just a Bible verse. Thanks.

Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Romans 4:4-5)

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Romans 10:9-13)

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. (Acts 10:43-44)

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. (Acts 15:7-9)

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (Titus 3:5)

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:11)

There you have it. forgiveness, regeneration, justification obtains by faith, and not as result of the merit of works. But which does not mean that salvific faith is one that is inert, and is unrelated to obedience, but that it is expressive, effectual faith which effects obedience that is counted for righteousness, making the believer "accepted in the Beloved" (Eph. 1:6) on His account.

184 posted on 09/12/2019 12:11:21 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: MHGinTN

I didn’t interpret OR misinterpret James. I just quoted him.


185 posted on 09/12/2019 12:12:53 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." - James 2:24 (KJV))
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To: Petrosius

And YOU cannot keep all ten commandments. So God imputes the Righteousness of Christ to the soul/spirit of those who are born again as believers incorporated into the Body of Christ.


186 posted on 09/12/2019 12:13:46 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

“So it seems the commandments still retain a tad bit of relevance, somehow, despite our advanced theology.”

Context isn’t salvation.


187 posted on 09/12/2019 12:14:27 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: metmom
Salvation is not earned by works and it's not kept by works.

It's given and that's that, sin notwithstanding.

So you are actually rejecting Scripture and saying that Paul was wrong, for in Galatians he lists sins that will keep us from inheriting the Kingdom of God.

188 posted on 09/12/2019 12:15:27 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

“Notice that the commandments that one must keep to enter into life are those of the Ten Commandments, not circumcision or those of the Mosaic Law.

...

Notice He came as Messiah and said this to a Jew.


189 posted on 09/12/2019 12:16:39 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: daniel1212
But which does not mean that salvific faith is one that is inert, and is unrelated to obedience, but that it is expressive, effectual faith which effects obedience that is counted for righteousness, making the believer "accepted in the Beloved" (Eph. 1:6) on His account.

Truem good, and beautiful.

190 posted on 09/12/2019 12:16:56 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." - James 2:24 (KJV))
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To: metmom

Did you notice in your posting from Galatians where Paul states: “This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward [after Abraham]”? Paul makes it clear here that he is talking about the Mosaic Law, not the eternal moral law of God. Both here and in Romans Paul is refuting the Judaizers who insist that believers must still be circumcised and follow the Mosaic Law, and that is all that he is saying.


191 posted on 09/12/2019 12:21:57 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: fidelis
Jesus and Paul did indeed warn time and again the impossibility of being saved under the Jewish law. But since almost no Christian today believes that one could, that is not what is in dispute today. What is in dispute is whether our conduct (either bad or good) has any impact on our salvation. And, as you must know, both Jesus and St. Paul were very clear that it did.

Aside from rewards given under grace, the impact upon salvation that works resulting from faith led by the Spirit (cf. Rm. 8:14) have is the same that credentials have when you need to verify who and what you are. Meaning that an inert faith which does not effect the "obedience of faith" is dead, as Reformers taught*.

Which is contrary to the description of sola fide that Catholics are often fed (which is suspect you are a victim of) and some seem to cherish, even though it is evangelicals who attest to the most effectual faith.

Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn’t stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an unbeliever...Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire! [http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/luther-faith.txt]

This is what I have often said, if faith be true, it will break forth and bear fruit. If the tree is green and good, it will not cease to blossom forth in leaves and fruit. It does this by nature. I need not first command it and say: Look here, tree, bear apples. For if the tree is there and is good, the fruit will follow unbidden. If faith is present works must follow.” [Sermons of Martin Luther 2.2:340-341]

“We must therefore most certainly maintain that where there is no faith there also can be no good works; and conversely, that there is no faith where there are no good works. Therefore faith and good works should be so closely joined together that the essence of the entire Christian life consists in both.” [Martin Luther, as cited by Paul Althaus, The Theology of Martin Luther [Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1963], 246, footnote 99]

if you continue in pride and lewdness, in greed and anger, and yet talk much of faith, St. Paul will come and say, 1 Cor. 4:20, look here my dear Sir, "the kingdom of God is not in word but in power." It requires life and action, and is not brought about by mere talk.” [Sermons of Martin Luther 2.2:341-342]

“This is why St. Luke and St. James have so much to say about works, so that one says: Yes, I will now believe, and then he goes and fabricates for himself a fictitious delusion, which hovers only on the lips as the foam on the water. No, no; faith is a living and an essential thing, which makes a new creature of man, changes his spirit and wholly and completely converts him. It goes to the foundation and there accomplishes a renewal of the entire man; so, if I have previously seen a sinner, I now see in his changed conduct, manner and life, that he believes. So high and great a thing is faith.”[Sermons of Martin Luther 2.2:341]

“For it is impossible for him who believes in Christ, as a just Savior, not to love and to do good. If, however, he does not do good nor love, it is sure that faith is not present. [Sermons of Martin Luther 1:40]

if obedience and God’s commandments do not dominate you, then the work is not right, but damnable, surely the devil’s own doings, although it were even so great a work as to raise the dead...And St. Peter says, Ye are to be as faithful, good shepherds or administrators of the manifold grace of God; so that each one may serve the other, and be helpful to him by means of what he has received, 1 Peter 4:10. See, here Peter says the grace and gifts of God are not one but manifold, and each is to tend to his own, develop the same and through them be of service to others.” [Sermons of Martin Luther 1:244]

In addition, upon hearing that he was being charged with rejection of the Old Testament moral law, Luther responded,

And truly, I wonder exceedingly, how it came to be imputed to me, that I should reject the Law or ten Commandments, there being extant so many of my own expositions (and those of several sorts) upon the Commandments, which also are daily expounded, and used in our Churches, to say nothing of the Confession and Apology, and other books of ours. Martin Luther, ["A Treatise against Antinomians, written in an Epistolary way", http://www.truecovenanter.com/truelutheran/luther_against_the_antinomians.html]

More http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Reformation_faith_works.html

And rather than the easy believism of that Catholicism mostly examples (with a church about about half full of liberal members) yet associates with sola fide, but which too many in evangelicalism in the prophesied latter-day falling away hold to, of mere assent of faith in a promise of Christ abstract from who and what the Lord Jesus is, in Puritan Protestantism there was often a tendency to make the way to the cross too narrow, perhaps in reaction against the Antinomian controversy, as described in an account (http://www.the-highway.com/Early_American_Bauckham.html) of Puritans during the early American period:

“They had, like most preachers of the Gospel, a certain difficulty in determining what we might call the ‘conversion level’, the level of difficulty above which the preacher may be said to be erecting barriers to the Gospel and below which he may be said to be encouraging men to enter too easily into a mere delusion of salvation. Contemporary critics, however, agree that the New England pastors set the level high. Nathaniel Ward, who was step-son to Richard Rogers and a distinguished Puritan preacher himself, is recorded as responding to Thomas Hooker’s sermons on preparation for receiving Christ in conversion with, ‘Mr. Hooker, you make as good Christians before men are in Christ as ever they are after’, and wishing, ‘Would I were but as good a Christian now as you make men while they are preparing for Christ.’”

192 posted on 09/12/2019 12:22:10 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: Elsie

HMMMmmm... indeed! Hebrews clearly shows that faith does not act alone, but is accompanied by works.


193 posted on 09/12/2019 12:24:54 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius
Therefore the false idea of "faith alone" is disproven by Scripture.

Rather, as shown in posts of mine above, it is the false conception of sola fide that is disproven by Scripture. Meanwhile it is easy believism that so many Ted Kennedy RCS example, faith in Rome to get them to glory as long as they died as one of hers, and which Rome manifestly considers them to be in life and in death.

In contrast, listen to this powerful sermon, "Soldiers " by God's grace.

194 posted on 09/12/2019 12:28:10 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: Elsie
//The good works required are keeping one self from sin,//

HMMMmmm…

Just HOW does this work?

By the grace of God.

195 posted on 09/12/2019 12:29:21 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Mrs. Don-o

More deeply you tried to exploit his words to support your works based religion.


196 posted on 09/12/2019 12:35:34 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: Petrosius
If we have lost our salvation through serious sin, ask Jesus to graciously forgive our sins through his ministers to whom he gave the power to forgive sins

Scripture does warn believers about departing from the living God in unbelief, drawing back into perdition, making Christ of no effect, to no profit, falling from grace, (Heb. 3:12; 10:38,39; Gal. 5:1-4)

However, while confession of faults to believers is exhorted, and which would include presbyters, these are not Catholic priests, and nowhere is confession of sins to them commanded or exampled, nor in particular to presbyters, though they are to be the primary supplicants for prayer. Nor is the power of binding and loosing only ascribed to the clergy, or shown to be that of regularly hearing confession. https://peacebyjesuscom.blogspot.com/2018/11/confession-of-sins-to-catholic-priests.html

197 posted on 09/12/2019 12:35:47 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Again I ask you, what are the works YOU deem sufficient to add to the Righteousness of Christ?


198 posted on 09/12/2019 12:36:37 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: Petrosius

One more time: How many of your sins were in the future at the Cross of Christ? How many of your sins were in the future that would take God by surprise when you first acknowledge Jesus is The Christ, your redeemer? When Jesus said it is finished, who are you to play the accuser and point to sin which you believe He did not remite? Whose righteousness is upon your spirit right now? If it is not ONLY the Righteousness of Christ then you are a lost sinner in need of a redeemer.


199 posted on 09/12/2019 12:41:15 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: Albion Wilde
One cannot purify oneself to such a degree that one becomes sinless and therefore deserving of Salvation.

Who said that one becomes ever deserves Salvation? It is a pure gift from God. Even after sin, Salvation can be had merely by repenting and asking for it, but one does need to repent. So I will ask again: can someone remain in serious sin and still be saved by faith alone? Paul says no, what say you?

200 posted on 09/12/2019 12:45:19 PM PDT by Petrosius
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