Posted on 07/23/2019 5:26:09 AM PDT by Cronos
I grew up in church culture. Most of what I recall from those early childhood and teenage years bring memories of good things. People genuinely taught me that loving Jesus matters more than anything else in the world. The world, after all, is corrupt and the place we truly long for is far, far away – heaven. So we are to love Jesus and hate the world.
Now, this is not hatred toward the people on earth. I did not grow up in a church culture that taught that we ought to tell outsiders how much they suck, but that this “world is not my home, I’m just a passin’ through.”
World and physicality = bad.
Jesus and spiritual bliss in a distant heaven = goal of the game.
This distinction came with a subset of beliefs about the destiny of God’s world. Eventually this planet would be destroyed and we Christians would “fly away” to heaven at the rapture of the church. Certain Christians understood the timing of the rapture as it corresponds to the book of Revelation differently than others, but no one ever denied the imminent return of Jesus to evacuate the church out of earth.
What I’ve come to realize is that the church of my youth probably had the rapture all wrong. You see, the Bible flows from Creation (Gen 1-2) to Renewed Creation (Rev 21-22). This is the narrative of Scripture. Nothing in the text (if read in its proper context) alludes to the actual complete destruction of the planet. This world’s worth to the Creator runs deep and because of this, the world as a whole ought to be intrinsically valuable to us.
Physical/earthly realities such as social injustice, violence, hunger, preventable sickness, and the destruction of nature are invitations to the church of Jesus to get our hands dirty and proclaim that this world matters (even in its broken state)! Christ will complete creation upon his return, uniting heaven and earth for the life of the age to come!
The famous “rapture” passage is found in 1 Thessalonians 4.15-17 and reads:
According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
This passage, when placed in the larger context of the chapter, is answering questions that Christians in Thessalonica had concerning death. What has happened to our loved ones who have died before the return of Christ to earth? What is theirs and our ultimate destiny? Paul’s answer: bodily resurrection at the return of Christ to earth! Not an escape into the sky [see appendix below!].
In this passage, Paul borrows two specific images from the Old Testament that would have been familiar to Jewish converts and Gentiles who were familiarizing themselves with the Hebrew tradition. The first of these that Paul employs in the text has to do with Moses who comes down from Mount Sinai with the Law with the great blast of the trumpet.
The second image is taken from Daniel chapter 7 where the “one like the son of man” (or “human being” or “The Human One”) and the community he represents is vindicated over the enemies of the people of God. Clouds here symbolize the power and authoritative judgement of God about the rescue of his people. This idea now seems to be applied to Christians who are facing various forms of persecution.
Finally, there is a third image in the text that comes from outside of the canonical context. This is the image of an emperor who visits a city. The people of that region would have gone out to meet him to usher him into their home in a royal procession out in the open air. This, Paul seems to apply to the church who will usher in their King into the new creation.***
Rapture, as it is popularly understood, is nowhere to be found in this “rapture” passage. Christ will return to resurrect, to purge, to heal, and to establish the eternal kingdom of God on this earth. Heaven and earth will unite like a bride and husband – for all eternity. That’s it.
The Bible teaches that when Christ comes back, it will be Good News! “‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away’” (Revelation 21.4). Surely we cannot erase judgment from the picture, but the hope is that those in Christ will be raised to eternal life and everything that is wrong with this world will be made right.
This world renewed is going to be our home for eternity, and we have the opportunity to reflect that future in our present. Rapture invites us to escape this world: the last thing that Jesus would have ever taught! “On earth as in heaven” is what he said, not “in heaven away from the earth!” Our world’s future is hopeful. Let’s tell that story and not the escapist narratives that many of us grew up with.
[Kurt Note: This article is an adaptation from various pieces that are part of my “rapture” category.]
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Below is a Word Study that I did based on 1 Thessalonians 4.17. What is interesting to me is how it reinforced my belief that the “rapture” as it is popularly understood (Jesus secretly returns to extract believers from earth to heaven for eternity) is completely unwarranted. If you choose to follow the logic below, you will know why 🙂
The word underlying “air” in 1 Thessalonians 4.17 is the Greek word “ἀήρ” (Strong’s: #109).
The usage of ἀήρ in the New Testament by verse:
Acts 22:23
…εἰς τὸν ἀέρ
…dust into the air,
1Co 9:26
…ὡς οὐκ ἀέρα δέρων·
…one that beateth the air:
1Co 14:9
…γὰρ εἰς ἀέρα λαλοῦντες.
…shall speak into the air.
Eph 2:2
…ἐξουσίας τοῦ ἀέρος τοῦ πνεύματος…
…power of the air, the spirit that…
1Th 4:17
…κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα καὶ οὕτως…
…the Lord in the air: and so shall…
Rev 9:2
…καὶ ὁ ἀὴρ ἐκ τοῦ…
…sun and the air were darkened by…
Rev 16:17
…ἐπὶ τὸν ἀέρα καὶ ἐξῆλθεν…
…vial into the air; and there came…
1) the air, particularly the lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air 2)the atmospheric region[1]
After surveying the above seven occurrences, it is clear that the definition is simply the area of unseen space in our atmosphere. Below, the meaning in its various usages are explained:
ἀήρ (aēr, 109), ἀέρος, ὁ, (ἄημι, ἄω, [cf. ἄνεμος, init.]), the air (particularly the lower and denser, as distinguished from the higher and rarer ὁ αἰθήρ, cf. Hom. Il. 14, 288), the atmospheric region: Acts xxii. 23; 1 Th. iv. 17; Rev. ix. 2, xvi. 17; ὁ ἄρχων τῆς ἐξουσίας τοῦ ἀέρος in Eph. ii. 2 signifies “the ruler of the powers (spirits, see ἐξουσία 4 c. ββ.) in the air”, i. e. the devil, the prince of the demons that according to Jewish opinion fill the realm of air (cf. Mey. ad loc.; [B. D. Am. ed. s. v. Air; Stuart in Bib. Sacr. for 1843, p. 139 sq.]). Sometimes indeed, ἀήρ denotes a hazy, obscure atmosphere (Hom. Il. 17, 644; 3, 381; 5, 356, etc.; Polyb. 18, 3, 7), but is nowhere quite equiv. to σκότος,— the sense which many injudiciously assign it in Eph. 1. c. ἀέρα δέρειν (cf. verberat ictibus auras, Verg. Aen. 5, 377, of pugilists who miss their aim) i. e. to contend in vain, 1 Co. ix. 26; εἰς ἀέρα λαλεῖν (verba ventis profundere, Lucr. 4, 929 (932)) “to speak into the air” i. e. without effect, used of those who speak what is not understood by the hearers, 1 Co. xiv. 9.*[2]
Although ἀήρ is not a word that is frequent in the New Testament, it is interesting to note that there is only one other word that is translated into English as “air.” The Greek οὐρανός has a different meaning when used as “air” than ἀήρ. Rather than referring to the “lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air,” it means:
1. the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it
- a. the universe, the world
- b. the aerial heavens or sky, the region where the clouds and the tempests gather, and where thunder and lightning are produced
- c. the sidereal or starry heavens
2. the region above the sidereal heavens, the seat of order of things eternal and consummately perfect where God dwells and other heavenly beings[3]
It seems that the difference between these two words will prove to be significant. The word in the 1 Thessalonians text indicates the “air” of the “lower” region as opposed to the “heavens” as οὐρανός can also be translated (heavens – 24x, heavenly – 1, heaven – 218). In other words, Paul had an option to use either of the words to talk about the “air” but he chose to use the word that refers mostly to the lower atmospheric region.
In the context of 1 Thessalonians 4.17, Paul is answering questions regarding the blessed Christian hope. What happens to Christ-followers who die before the return of the Messiah? Are they gone forever? And what about those of us who are waiting for this day? What are we to look forward to? In answer to these kinds of questions Paul describes the coming of Jesus as a moment of resurrection. Because Jesus died and rose again, his followers will someday be like him. They will have bodies that are restored to the image of Christ who is the image of God.
Paul in this passage uses mixed metaphors to communicating the reality of the final resurrection. He employs imagery from the Old Testament as well as from Roman royalty. Christ will appear in such a way that it will be like Moses when he descended down from the Mountain of Sinai. He will come with the “clouds” meaning that he will come with the power / authority of heaven like the “son of Man” in Daniel 7. When this happens all followers of Jesus will be gathered around their King and will usher him into the new heavens and new earth.
Unfortunately, the present passage of Scripture has been interpreted in several different ways; mostly indicating that the return of Christ will be a rapturous moment when God will snatch believers away from this evil world to meet him in the “air” (up in heaven) for eternity. There are several problems with this approach (too numerous to look at for this word study). The current word study exposes one of the fallacies in this interpretive scheme.
Had the Apostle wanted to communicate that Christ coming downward to take us upward was the goal of the 2nd coming, he could have chosen to use a word like οὐρανός. This word, which is interpreted as “air” on some occasions (as indicated above), would have given the impression that going to meet Christ in the “air” was a upward heavenly route. However, what this word study has discovered is that the word Paul chose to use was one that indicates the lower part of the atmosphere. Paul had a grammatical choice to make, and clearly he did not want to misguide his first century audience by making them think that being “with the Lord forever” actually meant going to heaven, away from the creation project. So, in order to keep his metaphorical devices in place without giving the wrong impression, he chose to use ἀήρ to indicate that he was not talking about escaping this world; but rather being part of its redemptive process. If the alternative word had been selected, Paul would have given us the opportunity to affirm cosmological dualism.
There is no dispute of how ἀήρ is to be translated from Greek into English among the translations. In every version that was checked (ESV, KJV, NIV, and TNIV) this word is translated as “air.”
After consulting the “Easton Bible Dictionary” we find that this word study’s findings about the meaning of the word ἀήρ is consistent and verified. It states: “The atmosphere, as opposed to the higher regions of the sky (1Th_4:17; Rev_9:2; Rev_16:17).”[4] This is also confirmed by the UBS Greek Dictionary: “air; ethereal region above the earth, space.”[5]
***N. T. Wright, “Farewell to Rapture,” Biblical Review (August 2001). http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_BR_Farewell_Rapture.htm (accessed October, 2009).
[1]http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=109&version=nas
[2] http://www.greekbiblestudy.org/gnt/greekWordStudy.do?id=100095&greek=false
[3] http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=3772&version=nas
[4] See: Easton Bible Dictionary. Available Online at: http://refbible.com/a/air.htm
[5] The Greek New Testament With Greek-English Dictionary by B. Aland (Editor), K. Aland (Editor), J. Karavidopoulos (Editor), B. M. Metzger (Editor), C. M. Martini (Editor)
In Matt. 24, He predicts the destruction of the second temple, true, but then, "the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
Yeshua's first appearance ushered in the age of the "gentiles" - this age, before the "Millennial Reign", before the entire world will be ruled from Jerusalem, as foretold in Daniel chp. 2:
44“In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.
Reading your posts, I conclude we both share similar ideas that much has already been fulfilled. I completely agree nothing prevents the second coming to happen any day/night now.
Something you're not taking into consideration is that the destruction of second temple Israel may actually be a shadow of the end of the gentiles/church period, much like the Exodus was a shadow of the Crucifixion. I have no doubt that we've not yet reached the terminus of this age, but are very close.
End time events, transfiguration/rapture/whatever, are mysteries for a reason. They are complex, multilayered, in play, and no one can assume they know for certain how it all plays out. Anyone who makes such claims doesn't know how much they don't know. Interesting discussion nevertheless, as long as we keep the above in mind. ;)
and the Latin Translator from the Greek used rapiemur which means the same as the greek harpazo, or to be lifted away or carried.
That is why the Protestants have used the term “The Rapture” despite the choice or preference perhaps in the 1500’s and 1600’s not to use the term in the English Translations.
Never the less it is called the holy Roman empire, it was not me that named
it.
Cronos as I have said before I agree with you on the rapture and I will give
you the benefit of doubt on the destruction of Jerusalem being the great tribulation
but after that, well I have ask you at least twice if you thought revelation
had been fullfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem, you will not answer which
Leads me to believe that you know it is so full of holes that it is like an irrigation
system.
If any one reads scripture they can plainly see that revelation covers at least two
thousand years.
It is common for people to put a bunch of scripture together to try to make it fit
what they believe but like an old preacher told me one time ( I don’t give a dam what
the scriptures say just as long as I do my best to understand what they do say).
Have you read about the four beasts in Daniel 7 it is exactly the same ones John talks
about except Daniel leaves out Egypt and assyria. because they had already passed.
John’s seven kings were not the seven kings of Rome it was the seven world empires
which Isreal had been enslaved to, that is what Daniel is referring to and so was John.
Here is proof that revelation covers two thousand years or more.
1 Cor 15:20
But now Christ has risen and become the first fruits of them that slept, past tense,
want proof?
Hosea6;2
After two days he will
revive us and on the third day he will raise us up and we will
live in his sight.
Rev14:
These were redeemed from among men being the first fruits of God and until the lamb.
Rev 20:4
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurection on such the second death
has no power but they shall be priest of God and Christ and shall reign with him a thousand
years.
20:5
but the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished, this is us.
The thousand years had to be before and or during the holy Roman empire even though the
empire itself belonged to Satan there were 14400 of God’s people in it during the thousand years and they were
alive.
You can not ignore two thousand years of history.
There is one over-arching principle: “Scripture interprets itself.” Scripture itself is our best theology professor in helping us understand and apply Scripture.....the issues generally are how they are ‘applied’ not interpreted.
You appear to have much to learn yet about Israel and the Temple.
The Temple will never be rebuilt - it has been replaced by the eternal sacrifice of Jesus (Hebrews). A new Temple from Heaven takes it’s place (Revelation).
“’and the Latin Translator from the Greek used rapiemur which means the same as the greek harpazo, or to be lifted away or carried.”
Right. The Greek “harpazo” and Latin “rapiemur” have the same meaning. “apocalypse” is something else entirely.
We don’t have a verb in English that by itself can convey “we shall be carried away” so dispensational protestants apparently began borrowing “rapture” from the Latin term.
Latin and Greek are both inflected languages with verb endings that contain a good deal of information; “first person plural future passive indicative” in this instance.
Well this must not be literal then either:
Rev_12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.Well it certainly doesn't...
Nor this:
Rev_11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Or this:
Rev_11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Or this:
Rev_14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
And this???
Mat_12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
And then this???
2Pe_3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
And that one you for sure reject as being literal also...But I like that one...It is a key to a lot of Old Testament prophecy...
How long ago was it that Adam and Eve were created??? According to the bible it was approximately 6000 years ago...That was 6 days according to God's translation...Six days (six thousand years) God worked on the Creation and the 7th day (one thousand years) he rested...For six thousand years God worked on his people the Jews and during the seven thousandth year, God will rest...He will be reunited with his chosen people as their Messiah reigning from his throne in Jerusalem...
Psa_90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
Hos 5:15 I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early. (Jesus' Ressurrection).
Hos 6:1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
Hos 6:2 After two days (two thousand years) will he revive us: in the third day (one thousand years of His millennial reign) he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years for a long time,
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand yearsfor a long time.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished for a long time. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years for a long time.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are (a long time is) expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
2Pe_3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day (a period of time) is with the Lord as a thousand years (a long time) , and a thousand years (long time) as one day (a period of time). I think I'll let the bible interpret itself...
Okay...
That is true but if people would take it as it is instead of trying to make it fit their belief we would all look at it much the same way.
250 Posts!
Wow.
I’ll get Back to
Read them,
Soon.
Unfortunately we do have far too many religeous people stating what the scriptures say who are not Christ’s... therefore without the Holy Spirit it’s just a human opinion.
Personally I know the difference between studying the scripture as a Christian and that not. The first thing I noted after salvation was how clear the scriptures were to understand.....it was and remains exciting when you know the Holy Spirit is revealing God’s Word. Therefore you don’t have to try and make anything “fit” as you say.
As it’s written....” Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.’..2 Timothy 2:15
Yep, that is what it says, God says I will put my laws in their hearts,
we may have to go to the scripture to understand them but if they are not
there to begin with it is no use.
Ezekiel 36:26
And I will give you ‘a new heart’, and ‘a new spirit’ I will put within you. And I will ‘remove the heart of stone’ from your flesh and give you ‘a heart of flesh’.
We are either In Christ or not.
We are either in Christ or not.
_______________________________
Jesus said to his father l have kept all those you have given me
except Judas.
Once saved always saved, not sure, some things I know that I do not
completely understand, other things I believe I understand but so does
every one else who may understand it different.
In other words I realize I can be wrong.
It’s written, (with certainty) , that we can ‘Know’ we have Eternal life. The Lord wants us to be assured we do indeed have Eternal life....I don’t think it’s a matter of understanding but believing what ‘He has said’... And that faith to believe “cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God”...
“These things have I written ‘unto you that believe’ on the name of the Son of God; that ye may ‘KNOW’ that ye have eternal life’...1 John 5
As for Judas.....we see that Satan entered Judas in Luke 22:3 After that point (in John 17), Jesus calls Judas the “son of destruction”. .....Judas made a conscious effort/choice to betray Jesus when he went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus ..he consented to being paid and watched for opportunity to betray Jesus.
That you may know that you have eternal life.
__________________________________
I go along with that but I also know that telling
some one else that may be taken for pride, also Jesus
said in Mathew in24:13 those who endure to the end
will be saved.
Luke 18; 9_14 the publican just asks for God’s mercery
But the pharicee knew he was saved, we see how that went.
Mathew 23 12, God resists the proud but gives Grace to
the humble.
So the publican was saved but I doubt that he was sure of it.
Me, too - I’m just glad that this is not a salvational issue - one of us would be in trouble.
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