Why the Rapture isn’t Biblical… And Why it Matters

Patheos ^ | June 4, 2014 | Kurt Williams

[Cronos]

I grew up in church culture. Most of what I recall from those early childhood and teenage years bring memories of good things. People genuinely taught me that loving Jesus matters more than anything else in the world. The world, after all, is corrupt and the place we truly long for is far, far away – heaven. So we are to love Jesus and hate the world.

Now, this is not hatred toward the people on earth. I did not grow up in a church culture that taught that we ought to tell outsiders how much they suck, but that this “world is not my home, I’m just a passin’ through.”

World and physicality = bad.
Jesus and spiritual bliss in a distant heaven = goal of the game.

This distinction came with a subset of beliefs about the destiny of God’s world. Eventually this planet would be destroyed and we Christians would “fly away” to heaven at the rapture of the church. Certain Christians understood the timing of the rapture as it corresponds to the book of Revelation differently than others, but no one ever denied the imminent return of Jesus to evacuate the church out of earth.

What I’ve come to realize is that the church of my youth probably had the rapture all wrong. You see, the Bible flows from Creation (Gen 1-2) to Renewed Creation (Rev 21-22). This is the narrative of Scripture. Nothing in the text (if read in its proper context) alludes to the actual complete destruction of the planet. This world’s worth to the Creator runs deep and because of this, the world as a whole ought to be intrinsically valuable to us.

Physical/earthly realities such as social injustice, violence, hunger, preventable sickness, and the destruction of nature are invitations to the church of Jesus to get our hands dirty and proclaim that this world matters (even in its broken state)! Christ will complete creation upon his return, uniting heaven and earth for the life of the age to come!

The famous “rapture” passage is found in 1 Thessalonians 4.15-17 and reads:

According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

This passage, when placed in the larger context of the chapter, is answering questions that Christians in Thessalonica had concerning death. What has happened to our loved ones who have died before the return of Christ to earth? What is theirs and our ultimate destiny? Paul’s answer: bodily resurrection at the return of Christ to earth! Not an escape into the sky [see appendix below!].

In this passage, Paul borrows two specific images from the Old Testament that would have been familiar to Jewish converts and Gentiles who were familiarizing themselves with the Hebrew tradition. The first of these that Paul employs in the text has to do with Moses who comes down from Mount Sinai with the Law with the great blast of the trumpet.

The second image is taken from Daniel chapter 7 where the “one like the son of man” (or “human being” or “The Human One”) and the community he represents is vindicated over the enemies of the people of God. Clouds here symbolize the power and authoritative judgement of God about the rescue of his people. This idea now seems to be applied to Christians who are facing various forms of persecution.

Finally, there is a third image in the text that comes from outside of the canonical context. This is the image of an emperor who visits a city. The people of that region would have gone out to meet him to usher him into their home in a royal procession out in the open air. This, Paul seems to apply to the church who will usher in their King into the new creation.***

Rapture, as it is popularly understood, is nowhere to be found in this “rapture” passage. Christ will return to resurrect, to purge, to heal, and to establish the eternal kingdom of God on this earth. Heaven and earth will unite like a bride and husband – for all eternity. That’s it.

The Bible teaches that when Christ comes back, it will be Good News! “‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away’” (Revelation 21.4). Surely we cannot erase judgment from the picture, but the hope is that those in Christ will be raised to eternal life and everything that is wrong with this world will be made right.

This world renewed is going to be our home for eternity, and we have the opportunity to reflect that future in our present. Rapture invites us to escape this world: the last thing that Jesus would have ever taught! “On earth as in heaven” is what he said, not “in heaven away from the earth!” Our world’s future is hopeful. Let’s tell that story and not the escapist narratives that many of us grew up with.

[Kurt Note: This article is an adaptation from various pieces that are part of my “rapture” category.]

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APPENDIX

Word Study, 1 Thessalonians 4.17 (Warning: a bit more technical!)

Below is a Word Study that I did based on 1 Thessalonians 4.17. What is interesting to me is how it reinforced my belief that the “rapture” as it is popularly understood (Jesus secretly returns to extract believers from earth to heaven for eternity) is completely unwarranted. If you choose to follow the logic below, you will know why 🙂

1. Word Identification

The word underlying “air” in 1 Thessalonians 4.17 is the Greek word “ἀήρ” (Strong’s: #109).

2. Frequency and Distribution

• Roman Historical Narrative (1x, Acts – 1)
• Pauline Letter (4x, 1Cor – 2, Eph – 1, 1Thes – 1)
• Apocalyptic (2x, Rev – 2)

The usage of ἀήρ in the New Testament by verse:

Acts 22:23

…εἰς τὸν ἀέρ
…dust into the air,

1Co 9:26

…ὡς οὐκ ἀέρα δέρων·
…one that beateth the air:

1Co 14:9

…γὰρ εἰς ἀέρα λαλοῦντες.
…shall speak into the air.

Eph 2:2

…ἐξουσίας τοῦ ἀέρος τοῦ πνεύματος…
…power of the air, the spirit that…

1Th 4:17

…κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα καὶ οὕτως…
…the Lord in the air: and so shall…

Rev 9:2

…καὶ ὁ ἀὴρ ἐκ τοῦ…
…sun and the air were darkened by…

Rev 16:17

…ἐπὶ τὸν ἀέρα καὶ ἐξῆλθεν…
…vial into the air; and there came…

3. Meaning

1) the air, particularly the lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air 2)the atmospheric region[1]

After surveying the above seven occurrences, it is clear that the definition is simply the area of unseen space in our atmosphere. Below, the meaning in its various usages are explained:

ἀήρ (aēr, 109), ἀέρος, ὁ, (ἄημι, ἄω, [cf. ἄνεμος, init.]), the air (particularly the lower and denser, as distinguished from the higher and rarer ὁ αἰθήρ, cf. Hom. Il. 14, 288), the atmospheric region: Acts xxii. 23; 1 Th. iv. 17; Rev. ix. 2, xvi. 17; ὁ ἄρχων τῆς ἐξουσίας τοῦ ἀέρος in Eph. ii. 2 signifies “the ruler of the powers (spirits, see ἐξουσία 4 c. ββ.) in the air”, i. e. the devil, the prince of the demons that according to Jewish opinion fill the realm of air (cf. Mey. ad loc.; [B. D. Am. ed. s. v. Air; Stuart in Bib. Sacr. for 1843, p. 139 sq.]). Sometimes indeed, ἀήρ denotes a hazy, obscure atmosphere (Hom. Il. 17, 644; 3, 381; 5, 356, etc.; Polyb. 18, 3, 7), but is nowhere quite equiv. to σκότος,— the sense which many injudiciously assign it in Eph. 1. c. ἀέρα δέρειν (cf. verberat ictibus auras, Verg. Aen. 5, 377, of pugilists who miss their aim) i. e. to contend in vain, 1 Co. ix. 26; εἰς ἀέρα λαλεῖν (verba ventis profundere, Lucr. 4, 929 (932)) “to speak into the air” i. e. without effect, used of those who speak what is not understood by the hearers, 1 Co. xiv. 9.*[2]

Although ἀήρ is not a word that is frequent in the New Testament, it is interesting to note that there is only one other word that is translated into English as “air.” The Greek οὐρανός has a different meaning when used as “air” than ἀήρ. Rather than referring to the “lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air,” it means:

1. the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it

1. a. the universe, the world
2. b. the aerial heavens or sky, the region where the clouds and the tempests gather, and where thunder and lightning are produced
3. c. the sidereal or starry heavens

2. the region above the sidereal heavens, the seat of order of things eternal and consummately perfect where God dwells and other heavenly beings[3]

It seems that the difference between these two words will prove to be significant. The word in the 1 Thessalonians text indicates the “air” of the “lower” region as opposed to the “heavens” as οὐρανός can also be translated (heavens – 24x, heavenly – 1, heaven – 218). In other words, Paul had an option to use either of the words to talk about the “air” but he chose to use the word that refers mostly to the lower atmospheric region.

4. Meaning in Context

In the context of 1 Thessalonians 4.17, Paul is answering questions regarding the blessed Christian hope. What happens to Christ-followers who die before the return of the Messiah? Are they gone forever? And what about those of us who are waiting for this day? What are we to look forward to? In answer to these kinds of questions Paul describes the coming of Jesus as a moment of resurrection. Because Jesus died and rose again, his followers will someday be like him. They will have bodies that are restored to the image of Christ who is the image of God.

Paul in this passage uses mixed metaphors to communicating the reality of the final resurrection. He employs imagery from the Old Testament as well as from Roman royalty. Christ will appear in such a way that it will be like Moses when he descended down from the Mountain of Sinai. He will come with the “clouds” meaning that he will come with the power / authority of heaven like the “son of Man” in Daniel 7. When this happens all followers of Jesus will be gathered around their King and will usher him into the new heavens and new earth.

Unfortunately, the present passage of Scripture has been interpreted in several different ways; mostly indicating that the return of Christ will be a rapturous moment when God will snatch believers away from this evil world to meet him in the “air” (up in heaven) for eternity. There are several problems with this approach (too numerous to look at for this word study). The current word study exposes one of the fallacies in this interpretive scheme.

Had the Apostle wanted to communicate that Christ coming downward to take us upward was the goal of the 2^nd coming, he could have chosen to use a word like οὐρανός. This word, which is interpreted as “air” on some occasions (as indicated above), would have given the impression that going to meet Christ in the “air” was a upward heavenly route. However, what this word study has discovered is that the word Paul chose to use was one that indicates the lower part of the atmosphere. Paul had a grammatical choice to make, and clearly he did not want to misguide his first century audience by making them think that being “with the Lord forever” actually meant going to heaven, away from the creation project. So, in order to keep his metaphorical devices in place without giving the wrong impression, he chose to use ἀήρ to indicate that he was not talking about escaping this world; but rather being part of its redemptive process. If the alternative word had been selected, Paul would have given us the opportunity to affirm cosmological dualism.

5. Verification

There is no dispute of how ἀήρ is to be translated from Greek into English among the translations. In every version that was checked (ESV, KJV, NIV, and TNIV) this word is translated as “air.”

After consulting the “Easton Bible Dictionary” we find that this word study’s findings about the meaning of the word ἀήρ is consistent and verified. It states: “The atmosphere, as opposed to the higher regions of the sky (1Th_4:17; Rev_9:2; Rev_16:17).”[4] This is also confirmed by the UBS Greek Dictionary: “air; ethereal region above the earth, space.”[5]

---

FOOTNOTES

***N. T. Wright, “Farewell to Rapture,” Biblical Review (August 2001). http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_BR_Farewell_Rapture.htm (accessed October, 2009).

[1]http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=109&version=nas

[2] http://www.greekbiblestudy.org/gnt/greekWordStudy.do?id=100095&greek=false

[3] http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=3772&version=nas

[4] See: Easton Bible Dictionary. Available Online at: http://refbible.com/a/air.htm

[5] The Greek New Testament With Greek-English Dictionary by B. Aland (Editor), K. Aland (Editor), J. Karavidopoulos (Editor), B. M. Metzger (Editor), C. M. Martini (Editor)

[caww]

We are still in the period of Grace...yet The Bible teaches that God is perfectly holy. Because of this attribute of His character, He cannot tolerate sin and God must deal with sin, and He does so in one of two ways — either grace or wrath.

(John the Baptist spoke..... “He who believes in the Son has eternal life, but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but ‘the wrath’ of God abides on him”. John 3:36 .....and Paul stated ...“Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things, the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience” (Ephesians 5:6).)

His wrath against evil will demonstrate His righteousness.....As is written...”A jealous and avenging God is the LORD; The LORD is avenging and wrathful. The LORD takes vengeance on His adversaries, And He reserves wrath for His enemies.”.....” The LORD is slow to anger and great in power, And the LORD will by no means leave the guilty unpunished…Nahum 1:2-3

God demonstrates His mercy in wrath by never pouring out His wrath ‘without warning’.. He tried to warn Sodom and Gomorrah through Abraham.. He warned Noah’s world through the preaching of Noah for 120 years.... He sent both Jonah and Nahum to warn the pagan city of Nineveh.

This characteristic of God’s wrath is demonstrated in the prophecies concerning the Tribulation. Rather than simply pouring out His wrath on the rebellious nations of the world, destroying them in one instant of overwhelming catastrophe, He subjects the world to a series of judgments that sequentially increase in scope and intensity... (Revelation 6,8-9,16).

...different responses to the wrath of God illustrate the point that is often made by Billy Graham: “The same sun that melts the butter also hardens the clay.” The wrath of God melts some hearts in repentance, but it has the effect of hardening the hearts of many others....

Malachi says that when the Lord returns, the day will be “like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff” (Malachi 4:1). That’s the bad news.

But consider the good news: “But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall” (Malachi 4:2).

[ravenwolf]

I may be misunderstanding you but do you believe
all of reverelation has already been full filled in
the time of the apostles?.

If that be the case there is nothing to argue about
as we are just waiting to get burnt up in the heat
which is described by Peter.

The heavens and earth will melt with fervent heat.

Also there may be many things some of us might agree
on if we would do one scriture and one subject at a
time but a half dozen things at once and going into
the word definition game does not help.

I agree that the rapture (taken up alive ) theory is
wrong but you seem to be saying that revelation was
also fullfilled when jersualem was destroyed.

Would you be more clear on that

Note, i believe Daniels 70 weeks were fullfilled.

[Iscool]

What I’ve come to realize is that the church of my youth probably had the rapture all wrong. You see, the Bible flows from Creation (Gen 1-2) to Renewed Creation (Rev 21-22). This is the narrative of Scripture. Nothing in the text (if read in its proper context) alludes to the actual complete destruction of the planet. This world’s worth to the Creator runs deep and because of this, the world as a whole ought to be intrinsically valuable to us.

You obviously are addressing your fellow Catholics in this piece since those actual bible believers who know a little bible can do nothing but shake their heads in wonderment at such a poor attempt to critique the bible...

2Pe 3:12  Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 

Mar 13:31  Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 

Rev 20:11  And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 

Rev 21:1  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 

2Pe 3:7  But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

There's more...Much, much more but these ought to convince any spirit filled Christian that you don't have a clue...

[daniel1212]

The drying of the Euphrates - the Romans crossed over the Euphrates on their way to demolish Jerusalem, coming from the east

It was not dried up, and the sounds of musicians is still heard in Jerusalem.

[Iscool]

Jesus Kingdom will not be of the earth - John 18:36

Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not of this world. If My Kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews. But now is My Kingdom not from hence.”

Right now it isn't...But it will be...For a thousand years...

[daniel1212]

the book of the apocalypse 18:21 "So shall Babylon the great city be thrown down" -- and the harlot-city of Jerusalem as referenced to Hosea is thrown down And the image of the city being cast like a millstone into the sea is the same as that in Rev 8:8 and Luke 17:1-2 "Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whome they come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea, than that he shoudl cause one of these little ones to sin" John's imagery is how Christ Himself said in Luke 17 and it is applied by John to Jerusalem. So then, the city, the once bride of God, now a harlot has led the nations into sin by falling into sin herself is cast into the sea with a millstone

That is such a desperate stretch, which is part of the extensive laborious attempted allegoricalization that is required in order to deny the literal understanding, which 1948 partly fulfilled. The warning of the millstone refers to a real millstone, and Jerusalem is real and was already fallen into sin, yet it exists as God promised it would in the latter day, with its sounds etc.

I will leave you to your delusions.

[Iscool]

These, together with the living “sheep” (Matthew 25:33), were born again in the tribulation after the rapture of the Church. The Spirit must then be operating on earth after the Rapture, otherwise individuals could not be born again (John 3:5).

I don't believe there is any scripture that says any in the Tribulation will be born again...It does say however that they will be saved...

[LeonardFMason]

How are you differentiating between someone Born Again and someone Saved???

There is no real difference.

[StoneWall Brigade]

Blasphemy!!!!!!!

[StoneWall Brigade]

Lies you are spreading lies from the very fires synagogues of hell

[Iscool]

3) John states in Revelation 1:9 "I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus." John didn't look at the tribulation as something that was to come but was already happening.

Rev 1:10  I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 

Many, myself included do not see this day as a Sunday but during the time of the return of Jesus at the end of the Great Tribulation...Which already puts John in the future...

Rev 1:9  I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 

John WAS in the isle but he was swept away to the future...

Not a single Apostle or early church Father has let out a peep about the past Great Tribulation having taken place...Those events that take place during the Tribulation would be etched in the minds of anyone connected to the church for generations to come...It hasn't happened yet...

So with John standing in the future he is instructed to write:

Rev 1:19  Write the things which thou hast seen,
Events in the church age which are past, which goes from Rev. 1 to Rev. 4...

and the things which are,
The events that to us take place in the future during the Great Tribulation which occurs from Rev. 4 to Rev. 19...

and the things which shall be hereafter; 
That which happens after the Great Tribulation which includes Rev. 20 to the end...

1) Christ return is suppose to be like "a thief in the night". We are to watch and pray. If we are not currently in a tribulation, then we know that Christ return is not eminent. Same problem exist with the rebuilding of the temple. Christ isn't going to return like a thief until the temple is rebuilt.

According to both Testaments Jesus as the Messiah, Lord of Lords and King of Kings is going to set up his kingdom on earth at his return at the culmination of the Great Tribulation...And when that happens,

Rev 1:7  Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 

No one is going anywhere...Jesus is not there as a thief...When Jesus comes as a thief the first time it will be at the Rapture...

2) According to tribulation theory, the church (and Holy Spirit) will be pulled out of the world (raptured) while other believers will go through the tribulation. This has a problem in that it is the Holy Spirit that convicts us of sin, righteousness and judgment. If the Holy Spirit is gone, then who is going to convict the world?

The 144,000 special spirit filled preachers who will head out across the world to convict people of their sins...But most of the world won't be convicted...Most of the people of the world will be killed...
These people, while saved, will not be part of the church/bride...The gospels talk a bit about the Wedding of the Bride/Church and it also mentions people who are 'friends' of the Bride and others who are 'guests' at the wedding...This seems to escape the study of a lot of Christians...

3) John states in Revelation 1:9 "I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus." John didn't look at the tribulation as something that was to come but was already happening. Paul likewise talks of us going through tribulation (e.g. Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Romans 8:35 is one place)

This is the normal tribulation that all Christians go thru at one time or another...This is not the Great Tribulation where God unleashes his wrath upon the enemies of Israel...

That's the way I see it thru my study of the bible comparing scripture with scripture...

[Maranatha7757]

I’m afraid that you have been wise in your own conceits, as the Apostle Paul warns in Romans chapter 11. No God is not finished with national Israel, as the davidic Covenant clearly mandates the Messiah will return for the remnant Israel Zechariah Chapter 12 13 and 14 just to name that book. Yes Gentiles have been grafted in, but the Apostle Paul makes it clear that the Jews can and will be grafted in again to the Natural branches. Acts chapter 9 clearly states how the Jewish leaders realize that God in this dispensation will take out for himself a people from the Gentiles, waiting for the final dispensation of the remnant of Israel at the End of the Age with shall be saved. It is a grave mistake to forget National Israel and God’s faithfulness to them.If God is Not faithful to Israel cannot be faithful to National Israel were the natural branches, then we do not have confidence in our Salvation as Gentiles. Keep reading my friend!

[Cronos]

A careful examination of the book of the Apocalypse, of Jesus’ prophetic sayings in the book of Matthew, of the words of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel and Hosea say that the great tribulation and the destruction of the 2nd Temple is what the book of the Apocalypse refers to - Jesus Christ Himself prophesied the destruction of the Temple and that is what the book of hte Apocalypse refers to

[Cronos]

The anti-Christ, the 6-6-6 -- note that 6 in the book of the Apocalypse signifies incompleteness, while 7 signifies perfection, completeness, which is why 7 is repeated throughout (like the 7 spirits, the 7 churches-signifying the complete church) along with other numbers like 1000 (signifying a very long time, not a literal 1000 years)

The anti-Christ was Nero, whose name spells out 666, who was the 6th "king" as referred to (the 7th who had a short reign was Galba who was Princep for 6 months)

Jesus in Matthew 24 very, very clearly refers to the destruction of the 2nd Temple, the literal world of the 2nd Temple Jews (of whom both modern judaism and christianity are daughter religions)

[Cronos]

REvelation 17:1 is clearly just as the rest of the book of the Apocalypse talking of the city of Jerusalem.

Firstly note that the harlot is separate from the beast -- so it can't be that Rome was both the harlot and the beastThis is also evident in the words off the High priests at Christ's trial John 19:15 "We have no king but Caesar"

This is also very very clear about Rev 17:1 which references Jeremiah 51:13 which says that Babylon sits by many waters. This is how John is linking Jerusalem as the new Babylon.

This imagery of the Harlot is also exactly how God in the minor prophets describes Jerusalem - Isaiah 1:21 "How the faithful city has become a harlotThis is also in Hosea

1:2 The beginning of the Lord's speaking by Osse: and the Lord said to Osee: Go, take thee a wife of fornications, and have of her children of fornications: for the land by fornication shall depart from the Lord.

4:16 For Israel hath gone astray like a wanton heifer: now will the Lord feed them, as a lamb in a spacious place.

We go on to Rev 17:4 which talks of the harlot arrayed in purple and scarlet - this echos Jeremiah 4:30 But when thou art spoiled what wilt thou do? though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, and paintest thy eyes with stibic stone, thou shalt dress thyself out in vain: thy lovers have despised thee, they will seek thy life.

And even more so, REv 17:16 "And the beast will hate the harlot; they will make her desolate nad naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire"

This is so, so clear about the Roman Empire burning down Jerusalem as at the 10th "King" Vespasian did,p>Remember that Jerusalem had dominion i.e. spiritual dominionThe fall of the harlot-city happened in 69 AD in the same generation that had killed the Christ - Christ crucified in 30 AD and within 40 years (one generation) Jerusalem destroyed.

the book of the apocalypse 18:21 "So shall Babylon the great city be thrown down" -- and the harlot-city of Jerusalem as referenced to Hosea is thrown down

And the image of the city being cast like a millstone into the sea is the same as that in Rev 8:8 and Luke 17:1-2 "Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whome they come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea, than that he shoudl cause one of these little ones to sin"

John's imagery is how Christ Himself said in Luke 17 and it is applied by John to Jerusalem. So then, the city, the once bride of God, now a harlot has led the nations into sin by falling into sin herself is cast into the sea with a millstone

[Cronos]

1 Thessalonians - Paul tells us that the Lord is coming back to raise the dead and lead us into the heavenly kingdom. This passage says nothing of people being "left behind" as part of a rap ture

The entire story about the "great tribulation" then ignores the great tribulation that the Armenian Christians had in 1917-1920, ignores the great tribulation of Christians in northern Nigeria today, ignores the great tribulation of Christians in Iraq in the 13th century when they were nearly wiped out by Tamerlane, or in the 21st century under the Islamic state. It ignores the great tribulation of the Japanese Christians in the 16th century etc. etc

1 Cor 1:7 says nothing of rapture. neither does 1 Thes 5:23 nor 4:15-17

The 2nd temple Jews HAD their great tribulation with the destruction of the 2nd temple in 69 AD.

Seriously - listen to Christ's own words about "this generation" will see the destruction of the temple - he prophesied and it happened

[Cronos]

The statement was “gospel preached to all the nations” - and this was to the nations at the that time in the known world — by 69 AD you had Thomas in India preaching and Nicodemus in Alba - preaching the gospel to the ends of the earth

[Cronos]

Matthew 24:37 clearly says Jesus will usher in the age of the church - Jesus does not mention any hint of a tribulation or a millenium after His coming

[Cronos]

the reign of Christ the King began with his earthly ministry, including the founding of his community and continues in what the Lutherans call the True Presence in the Eucharist where there is parousia.

Jesus completed the sacrifices, fulfilled the Law. Remember the work of Jesus, who in his one Sacrifice of Calvary fulfilled and thus made obsolete the Old Covenant sacrifices (Heb. 8:6-7, 13), which had to be offered at the Temple in Jerusalem.

The Letter to the Hebrews makes clear that Jesus definitively ended the need for the repetitive animal sacrifices of Temple worship, when he suffered and died once for all (Heb. 7:27). In doing so, he culminated his one Sacrifice of Calvary in everlasting glory in the heavenly sanctuary, not a mere earthly one, (Hebrews 8:1-3; 9:11-12, 23-24); and he makes that Sacrifice present on earth “as a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek,” (Heb. 5:6; see Heb. 5:5-10; 7:23-26;), i.e., under the appearances of bread and wine (see Gen. 14:18-20; Mt. 26:26-29).

[21twelve]

We have numerous pastors and lay teachers at our church - and their belief about the rapture are all over the place. The one guy that I respect a lot and is very knowledgeable says that the rapture is a modern view. And it is SO unlike God.

Something like: “When did God EVER pull his people out of hardship? He uses His people when times are hard to guide others to the truth and to Himself. From being slaves in Egypt, exiles in Babylon, to Christian missionaries being slaughtered in Africa. Why would the end times be any different? Oh - and by the way - we ARE in the “end times”, and have been since Jesus died and rose again.”

Our head pastor gave a sermon series on Revelation. He spoke a bit about the various viewpoints on the Rapture VERY quickly, one sentence on each of them. I forget now the term he used, but he said something like “Me? I believe in the __________ theory. It will all work out in the end.”