Posted on 06/16/2019 4:55:18 AM PDT by CharlesOConnell
In Captains Courageous, with Spencer Tracey, Freddy Batholomew is a blowhard millionaire's son who is socially, poorly adjusted. He uses his father's incredible wealth, to bully his classmates and even his teacher, but he's roundly disliked, and ostracized. While on an ocean liner, he unsuccessfully tries to impress some other boys by eating 5 ice cream sodas. When he has to throw up, to escape the mocking boys, he runs into a lifeboat area to evade their ridicule while purging his overindulgence, and manages to fall overboard into the ocean.
Instances of people falling overboard into the open ocean are rather commonly reported in the news. Usually they are lost, but if by chance their accidents are observed and a life-preserver is thrown to them, is that the end of the story, do we just say, "oh, well, you have a floatation device, you're okay now"?
No, we have to pull them in. The life-preserver, the lifesaver, is only part of the formula for saving their lives. There is also a rope, which must be attached to the life-preserver, and must be used to finally accomplish their salvation.
Jesus Christ is the one mediator between God and man. But on the man side of the equation, unlike the radical individuality most typified by J.J. Rousseau, we who life the life of Christians do so in communities. But even then, we do not abide as atomistic individualists. We live our Jesus-oriented life in relation to our fellows. "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching." – Hebrews 10:25.
Jesus' first disciple was his mother, who gave us the total account of his early life and who "treasured these things up in her heart". "A sword will pierce your own soul too, so that the secret thoughts of many hearts might be revealed". On the cross, he gave his mother to John to take in his home, but when you take your master's mother, she takes care of you.
Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail. And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery.
And another portent appeared in heaven; behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems upon his heads. His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to bear a child, that he might devour her child when she brought it forth; she brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which to be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days. …
And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had borne the male child. But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time. The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with the flood. But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river which the dragon had poured from his mouth. Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus. - Rev 11:19 -- 12:17
She forms the body of Christ. She schools her son's disciples. Those who won't attend her school, remain ignorant.
We are in a time when any merely human institution would be washed away. Our churches are going under the shadow of a new Heresy of Ba'al of Peor, as when the Hebrew people were successfully attacked and overwhelmed through human sexuality. Our churches are now pro-gay and as soon as the civil authority authorizes child sex, they will be indistinguishable from the denizens of the town of Sodom: "Bring them out that we may know them".
Jesus' mother forms the few of the elect who will resist being fooled by the great apostasy. Those who will not avail themselves of the lifeline of Mary, will be lost.
Placeholder
X
Catholicism condemns those who aren't Catholic to hell over differences in doctrine.
We don't care as long as the basics of salvation are there.
So some want to speak in tongues and others don't.
Some prefer one style of worship music over another.
BIG DEAL.
Watch out if the pews get removed and replaced with chairs!
I didn't evade answering a question? Please point out where I did and maybe I can clarify for you.
It looks like a thousand years hasn't sufficed to reconcile the differences.
True.
What's it going to take? Another thousand?
Maybe. It will take what it takes.
But the point you keep skirting is that the belief of Catholics is much closer to that of the Orthodox than is Protestant belief. Someday, maybe the Protestants will understand this and stop claiming how they are so close to Orthodox Church belief.
You folks will be united ... under the antichrist. Is Chrislam creeping over the horizon with your pope?
You claimed Catholic teaching is they'd go to hell. Where's your quote say that?
Whereas Catholicism states this......
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
Pius 9, Quanto Conficiamur Moerore: “Also well known is the Catholic teaching that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church. Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff..”
-http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9quanto.htm
Pope Pius IX (1846–1878), Encyclical Singulari Quidem March 17, 1856): “There is only one true, holy, Catholic Church, which is the Apostolic Roman Church. There is only one See founded on Peter by the word of the Lord, outside of which we cannot find either true faith or eternal salvation. He who does not have the Church for a mother cannot have God for a father, and whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church. (On the Unity of the Catholic Church)
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9singul.htm
St. Thomas Aquinas: It is also shown that to be subject to the Roman Pontiff is necessary for salvation. For Cyril says in his Thesaurus: “Therefore, brethren, if we imitate Christ so as to hear his voice remaining in the Church of Peter and so as not be puffed up by the wind of pride, lest perhaps because of our quarrelling the wily serpent drive us from paradise as once he did Eve.” And Maximus in the letter addressed to the Orientals [Greeks] says: “The Church united and established upon the rock of Peter’s confession we call according to the decree of the Savior the universal Church, wherein we must remain for the salvation of our souls and wherein loyal to his faith and confession we must obey him.” — St. Thomas Aquinas, Against the Errors of the Greeks, Pt. 2, ch. 36
http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraErrGraecorum.htm#b38
Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam: (Promulgated November 18, 1302) “We declare, say, define, and pronounce [ex cathedra] that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”
"If, therefore, the Greeks or others say that they are not committed to Peter and to his successors, they necessarily say that they are not of the sheep of Christ, since the Lord says that there is only one fold and one shepherd (Jn.10:16). Whoever, therefore, resists this authority, resists the command of God Himself. " — Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam (Promulgated November 18, 1302)
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/b8-unam.html
Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino (1441): "The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the "eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."
IOW, you have to be a Roman Catholic to even think you might be able to get to heaven, and even then there are no guarantees.
Do you think God's going to give you a theology exam when you die to see if you got your Catholic doctrine right before He lets you into heaven?
It is an easy question to answer, and I answered it. In the hypothetical real life situation you proposed:
No baptism.
No Lord' Supper.
No chance to do good deeds/fruit/works.
Do they go to Heaven or Hell?
They ask you, Al, did my mom got to Heaven or Hell? And your reply?
Beats me.
Yours, sir, is a sad religion if it cannot provide solid answers about your eternal destination after you die.
You may believe that, but if you aren't in communion with the ECLA the following does not apply to you:
mutual recognition of Baptism and a sharing of the Lord's Supper, allowing for joint worship and an exchangeability of members
mutual recognition and availability of ordained ministers to the service of all, subject to the disciplinary regulations of other denominations
common commitment to evangelism, witness and service
means of common decision-making on critical common issues of faith and life
mutual lifting of any condemnations that exist between denominations
So, you would lie?Yours, sir, is a sad religion if it cannot provide solid answers about your eternal destination after you die.
But what you asked me was to decide whether someone else was saved. Again, I don't know and neither do whether another person is truly saved.
Your, sir, is a sad religion that cannot tell the surviving members if their loved one is in Heaven or Hell.
There is a lie if you are telling people that you know that status of someone's salvation based on a statement they made when you don't know if they truly believed what they said or if they didn't.
Your, sir, is a sad religion that cannot tell the surviving members if their loved one is in Heaven or Hell.
It is not a religion - it is me. I'm not going to lie to someone if I don't really know the answer. Just because someone says something doesn't mean they really believe it. They may be saved or they may not. It's not my place to make that decision based on a sentence the said.
You shouldn't lie either but that's your call.
Jesus said come to ME ALL YE that are weary are heavy Laden and I will give you rest. NO EXCEPTIONS.
Jesus did not say come to my mother in the flesh and she may give you access to my rest. There you have it from the mouth of God himself.
Mary is no intermediary for your deliverance or anybody else’s. Jesus said YOU come to ME.
You either believe the man who is God or you believe any false religion that has a different view than the stated view of the Almighty himself.
Jesus is right and ALL of us are wrong compared to him. Even HIS mother... You do WHAT HE says.
Jesus alone is the Savior. Mary would be the 1st person to tell you that.
Mary would also tell you that she couldn’t even save a bag of paper plates. NOT HER JOB! And they did not exist at the time.
Attributing to Mary the nature and character of Almighty God himself borders on blasphemy.
I’ve said prayer sincerely to Mary with all my heart and got nothing. I say prayers to Jesus and I get action now.
Only Jesus. Period.
Good for you.
The problem with false religions, is they have a serious 1st Corinthians 2:14 problem. I am just not into false religions. 👍
I think the word obtuse comes to mind.
absolutely. we all acknowledge one Lord.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.