Are Mormons Christians? (Additional Footage) - Tim Conway

Grace Community Church ^ | 6/8/2013 | Tim Conway

[OddLane]

An exploration of the doctrine of the Church of Latter day Saints by Tim Conway.

[teppe]

This is speculation and not LDS scripture. Although, I agree with the possibility.

You need to understand that there is doctrine, and speculation .... some which may very well be inspired.

Do you actually believe that everything that there is to know about God is contained in the Bible?

I assure you, that there are a great many things that we do not know that we will be amazed to learn once we are (hopefully) back in his presence.

[9YearLurker]

Ah, jeez—I was anticipating some serious laughs as *the* Tim Conway took on Mormonism!

[9YearLurker]

Do you believe that you will be your own god with your own celestial planet one day?

[Elsie]

I don’t know what the founder of your religion is .... but if you told me .... within an hour I could find some crazy things that it was reported that he said as well.

The answer is JESUS, but I suspect that is not what you really want.

Would it help your search to know I attend a WESLEYAN congregation?

[Elsie]

I don’t believe in speculation, hearsay or opinions

A highly commendable mode of operation!

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In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.

1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.

Ezra Taft Benson

(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)     http://www.lds.org/liahona/1981/06/fourteen-fundamentals-in-following-the-prophet?lang=eng

[teppe]

So Elsie ...

If the Catholics were guided by God and not allowed to error in their interpretation of doctrine and development of their creeds...

.... why are you Protestant? Seems to me, if you go non-biblical in favor of Catholic Creeds, you should go all the way and renounce your protestation.

[MHGinTN]

You poor thing, the god of your religion was once a man and had to earn godhood. One of your presidents, Snow even penned and preached that couplet. Look at what JESUS said of Himself and God The Father Almighty in John 14.

You and I (and Philip) cannot 'see' God The Father Almighty except where He intersects our limits of sensing ... as JESUS. Until you awaken to truth you will not comprehend that, but that is what JESUS told Philip.

[teppe]

Elsie, you quoting a talk, not scripture or doctrine.

Please give me scripture or doctrine.

Or ... give me your brand of Christianity, and I’ll quote some of your leaders talks to you.

[MHGinTN]

You will just have to get your chuckles from teppe’s posts.

[Not A Snowbird]

He also didn’t say to be insulting, belittling, or obnoxious to people who are outside our faith. We are called to share our beliefs and the rest is in God’s hands.

[MHGinTN]

Christians are commanded to contend for the faith. YMMV

[marajade]

I would say no. Galatians 1:8

[teppe]

OK, I’ll play your game, your Weslyan.

John Wesley said

“Light yourself on fire with passion and people will come from miles to watch you burn.”

I’m sure if you were me, and if Brigham Young had said this you would be saying that Mormons teach their people to commit suicide by burning themselves.

[Elsie]

IMHO Fables = the Nicene Creed as well as all of the Catholic Creeds.

Really?

I thought you just typed: I don’t believe in speculation, hearsay or opinions like the Nicean Creed!

Yet you are attempting to foist one of yours onto us!

[21twelve]

Years ago we visited a protestant church in Rexsburg, Idaho. Has a mormon college, a new temple - very large mormon presence. The small protestant church was so happy to see us and our young kids - average age of the congregation was 70 or more.

They were very proud of their new front doors. Carved wood, stained glass, etc. In speaking to one of the guys he said “Well - we’ve had them for three years in the basement. Special doors and they needed factory trained people to install them. The factory said we had several people in our area that could install them. Trouble is, they were all mormon. They would show up, realize that we were a Protestant church, and then come up with some excuse as to why they couldn’t install them. We finally ended up paying some guy from Oregon to come up and install them!”

That said - the mormon friends we were visiting are great people and good friends. The grandmother was a feisty one. She would make me coffee in the morning. I told her she didn’t have to as I know it is against her religion.

“The Elder once told me that I had to get the coffee and coffee pot out of my house. I told him that if my guests want coffee I’m going to give it to them. And if I’m going to Hell over a cup of coffee - well so be it!”

[teppe]

Funny ... John Wesley said:

“We should be rigorous in judging ourselves and gracious in judging others.”

I guess, you don’t believe in that particular teaching of the founder of your faith.

[Elsie]

Although, I agree with the possibility.

Based upon WHAT?

[Elsie]

You sure have skipped over a LOT of MORMON sourced material that I've posted. I don't think the Rules of Fair Play lets you ask ME questions when YOU fail to answer mine.

That's ok though; since I'm in this thread to wizen up any Lurkers who might be seeking the Lord in the wrong place.

If you manage to start accepting some things of the Lord; that'll be fine as well.

[Not A Snowbird]

I don’t dispute that.

[Elsie]

You seem to have problem with something named a CREED.

How do you explain Mormonism's own creed??

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Here is MORMONism's own creed:

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Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 

THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541

 

 

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
   
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
   
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
   
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
   
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
   
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
   
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
   
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
   
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
    
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
    
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
    
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith