Posted on 03/30/2019 8:12:59 AM PDT by Salvation
Question: I had reason to hope my niece was going to convert to the Catholic faith. But there were so many obstacles the Church set up that discouraged her. She was asked to go to classes, and they told her that her marriage was not valid and she would need an annulment. Further, it was necessary to wait until Easter, etc. The nearby evangelical church set up no such obstacles, and she was able to join at once and be considered a member. I hear so much talk of evangelization today, but I share my niece’s frustration. Can we not streamline this process?
— Name withheld
Answer: There is a kind of appealing simplicity that you describe in many Protestant denominations. But there are problems with the approach that should give us pause. Ultimately evangelization is more about conversion than mere membership. We are summoned to embrace the saving teaching of the Lord and to walk according to it.
Because adults make informed decisions, the Church considers it important to teach them the fundamentals of the Faith so that they can know what it is they are agreeing to when they enter the Church. Although some of the Scriptures portray an almost instant, on-the-spot baptism, the consensus in the early Church shifted to a lengthy, three-year period of instruction (called the catechumenate) prior to baptism. This likely was because of the insight that quick conversions often led to quick departures or a falling away when the true demands of discipleship became known.
Instructions are most insisted upon for those who are unbaptized. In the case of those who are baptized and come from different Protestant denominations, the length and content of instructions will depend on their background. It is up to the discretion of the pastor who discerns with each individual what is needed. It is certainly not required for those already baptized to “wait until next Easter.”
The concerns about a person’s marital status are rooted in the very words and teachings of Jesus himself. He teaches without ambiguity that for a person to marry, then divorce and enter another marriage, puts them in an ongoing state of adultery in the “new” marriage (cf. Mt 5:32; Mt 19:1-9; Mk 10:11-12; Lk 16:18, etc). He adds rather firmly, “What God has joined together, let no one divide” (Mt 19:9).
It will be further noted that when the Lord was evangelizing the woman at the well, he brought her to a moment of conversion, and she asked for the gift of faith. But the Lord Jesus saw fit to first raise with her the fact that she had been married five times and was now living with a man outside of marriage. Her conversion would not be complete or adequate until she was willing to live chastely. Then the graces could flow.
For reasons of their own, many Protestant denominations have decided to practically overlook such passages. But the Catholic Church takes the Lord’s teaching on these matters rather seriously, as he clearly intended that we should. In some cases, after an investigation based on evidence, the Church may use its power to bind and loose, to indicate that the previous marriage was not “what God has joined,” and it recognizes the first marriage as null. A person’s current marriage then can be blessed and recognized. But we simply cannot set the Lord’s words aside as if they were of little importance.
Thus some conversions to the Catholic faith will take some time to be faithful to the teachings of the Lord and the nature of true conversion. It is worth the diligence required.
And now you’re reduced to nothing but gainsaying.
Face it; the church fathers that your organization insists we have to follow preached and taught faith alone.
And as boatbums pointed out upthread, they translated Romans 3 as ‘faith alone’ long before Luther arrived on the scene too.
Who are YOU to say that YOUR interpretation of Scripture is superior to that of the saints?
I don’t even believe in sacred tradition, and your church fathers that you claim to pull it from are supporting my ‘heretical’ view more than you. That must sting.
What is most important is: How are we KEPT?
Protestantism says, “By GRACE”; while Rome says, “By WORKS”.
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Which is nonsense of a different kind, considering that the Apostle Paul always speaks of salvation as a completed action.
Not to mention how their own catechism says that we have to merit graces for eternal life, as if you could A: earn grace, and as if B: eternal life and salvation/justification aren’t the same thing.
It really is a self-contradictory mess.
I think it probably won’t be long before the same tired, disproven and discredited accusations will be leveled again as if no one had EVER tried to post the facts before - sometimes even by the SAME people! That old dog-eared, raggedy, frayed and faded Luther card is played whenever they know they cannot back up their opinions. It’s become almost predictable!
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GERMAN MAN BAD is the only card they’ve got when logic, Scripture, and even their vaunted church fathers fail them.
Won’t even read what he has to say for himself either.
Probably afraid that just maybe he’s not as bad as they’ve been taught.
Did that happen at Fatima? 😁
No doubt you believe you are directed by the Holy Spirit, Himself, to do what you do in order to bring wayward, lurking outsiders into your fold.
These are challenging times. I hope it works out for you in the end.
Did someone command Christians to contend for the faith? When The Grace of God in Christ is diminished by adding some form of works to achieve or maintain a born again member in GOD’S family, some of us speak out against such heresy. Elsie does it his way (very effectively, judging by how it pricks the hearts of some), ealgeone does it his way, I do it my way ... we are contending for the Faith once delivered. The scriptures are the only reliable source for see ‘as it was once delivered’, regardless of the many many changes Rome and money grubbing evangelists have added.
I want to watch the Luther haters squirm, when they have to sit next to them in Heaven forever.
But. Luther!!!!!
We also know that we are Commanded to honor our father and mother and we know that Jesus followed that Commandment with regard to His Father, before, during and after His life as one of us.
Question is, how does He honor His Mother now?
Question then is, how does He want us to honor His Mother now?
I remember that His Ways are not our ways, so I ponder what my works should be with regard to His Mother Mary, the Mother of God, the Spouse of the Holy Spirit.
Your works in this area make me worry for you and pray that the Spirit of Understanding will have its way with all of us, so that we might all see clearly and repent.
In our physical world, we have a great many autoimmunity diseases where the body attacks itself.
We also have cancer, where cells of the body get busy recreating the body within the body.
In our spiritual world as Christians, we of His Body are busy attacking others of His Body, much like the autoimmunity diseases do.
We also have various factions of Christians recreating their own versions of His Body, His Church, within His Body, very similar to the way that cancer forms in physical world bodies.
I see these two conditions of both our physical and spiritual bodies as being interrelated, that our spiritual world conflicts are reflected back onto our physical world in the diseases that afflict us now.
Thoughts are very powerful things. Think with care! Seriously...
I think I they will rather have a good laugh over it. Luther had a sharp wit and a pretty good sense of humor. Once we see our Savior face to face the differences will fall away and we can have a hearty laugh together. The problem is those caught up in works righteousness who do not wholly trust Christ for their salvation may miss the party altogether. What a tragedy that would be.
First of all I’d like a scripture reference for Mary as spouse of the Holy Spirit. Once we get by that bit of blasphemy we can look to the words of Jesus
Try Matthew 12:50. If Jesus wanted us to honor Mary in a special way I’m sure He would have made it clear to us.
Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
Sorry it took a couple posts my copy function was not working right
At your respectable, senior age, my brother Elsie, you better watch all that leaning - you might just tumble right over! (And, holy krakatoli! It looks like you could use another very strong dose of that "IMPOSTIUM"!!!)
No it isn't, my brother Elsie, no it isn't. "We" is me, and the person I'm debating a point with, not "the imperial we", oui?
Weird!
That sounds like you, Elsie-man!
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