Luther Thought Purgatory was an Open Question?

Beggars All Reformation and Aplogetics ^ | May 04, 2013 | James Swan

[boatbums]

Luther Thought Purgatory was an Open Question?

I came across this link posted on the Catholic Answers Forums: The Hope of Eternal Life. The link is ecumenical in nature, an attempt to smooth over the edges between Roman Catholicism and Lutheranism. This is the excerpt that was posted on CAF:

181. The most explicit discussion of purgatory in the Confessions comes in the 1537 Smalcald Articles, II, 2, which addressed the mass as sacrifice. Besides being itself a violation of the Gospel, the mass as sacrifice "has produced many noxious maggots and the excrement of various idolatries" (§11), the first of which is purgatory. Purgatory, "with all its pomp, requiem Masses, and transactions, is to be regarded as an apparition of the devil for it obscures the chief article..." (§12). Behind Luther's typically extreme language, however, a more nuanced understanding is elaborated. "Concerning the dead we have received neither command nor instruction. For these reasons, it may be best to abandon it [derhalben man es mocht wohl lassen], even if it were neither error nor idolatry" (§12). In a revised version of the article, Luther added a discussion of the authority of Augustine claimed for the doctrine. "When they have given up their purgatorial 'Mass fairs' (something Augustine never dreamed of), then we will discuss with them whether St. Augustine's word, lacking support from Scripture, may be tolerated and whether the dead may be commemorated at the sacrament. It will not do to formulate articles of faith on the basis of the holy Fathers' works or words" (§14f). The existence of purgatory is not dogmatically denied. Rather, 1) the existence of purgatory is not taught by Scripture and thus cannot be binding doctrine, and 2) belief in purgatory is now hopelessly bound up with unacceptable practices. A belief that could be discussed in principle is concretely objectionable because of its associations.

This excerpt is fascinating because it argues Luther believed:

-Purgatory isn't taught in Scripture, but yet may exist.
-Purgatory is only to be avoided because of its associations with "unacceptable practices."
-If these practices were removed, a proper discussion on purgatory could occur.

According to this article here is Luther's view of purgatory: "A belief that could be discussed in principle is concretely objectionable because of its associations." In other words, purgatory, for Luther, was an open question. Get rid of the abuses attached to it, and then it could be discussed.

In regard to the Smalcald Articles, LW states, "Under these circumstances the elector of Saxony instructed Luther in a letter of Dec. 11, 1536, to prepare a statement indicating the articles of faith in which concessions might be made for the sake of peace and the articles in which no concessions could be made."

Here are the two statements from the Smalcald Articles alluded to above. Read them for yourself and see if Luther is willing to make a concession on purgatory for the sake of peace:

Luther states in Article 12:

12 The first is purgatory. They were so occupied with requiem Masses, with vigils, with the weekly, monthly, and yearly celebrations of requiems, with the common week, with All Souls’ Day, and with soul-baths that the Mass was used almost exclusively for the dead although Christ instituted the sacrament for the living alone. Consequently purgatory and all the pomp, services, and business transactions associated with it are to be regarded as nothing else than illusions of the devil, for purgatory, too, is contrary to the fundamental article that Christ alone, and not the work of man, can help souls. Besides, nothing has been commanded or enjoined upon us with reference to the dead. All this may consequently be discarded, apart entirely from the fact that it is error and idolatry.

Luther states in Article 13:

13 The papists here adduce passages from Augustine and some of the Fathers who are said to have written about purgatory. They suppose that we do not understand for what purpose and to what end the authors wrote these passages. St. Augustine (tr-467) does not write that there is a purgatory, nor does he cite any passage of the Scriptures that would constrain him to adopt such an opinion. He leaves it undecided whether or not there is a purgatory and merely mentions that his mother asked that she be remembered at the altar or sacrament. Now, this is nothing but a human opinion of certain individuals and cannot establish an article of faith. That is the prerogative of God alone. 14 But our papists make use of such human opinions to make men believe their shameful, blasphemous, accursed traffic in Masses which are offered for souls in purgatory, etc. They can never demonstrate these things from Augustine. Only when they have abolished their traffic in purgatorial Masses (which St. Augustine never dreamed of) shall we be ready to discuss with them whether statements of St. Augustine are to be accepted when they are without the support of the Scriptures and whether the dead are to be commemorated in the sacrament. 15 It will not do to make articles of faith out of the holy Fathers’ words or works. Otherwise what they ate, how they dressed, and what kind of houses they lived in would have to become articles of faith — as has happened in the case of relics. This means that the Word of God shall establish articles of faith and no one else, not even an angel.

The reading given to these statements by The Hope of Eternal Life downplays the first explicit rejection of purgatory, and sees the real Luther in his willingness to discuss what Augustine meant when "purgatorial masses" are abolished. The problem as I see it, is this reading of the Smalcald Articles isolates these statements from Luther's total written corpus, particularly any writings after the Smalcald Articles.

For instance, in his later sermons on Genesis, Luther states something with similar characteristics to the Smalcald articles. Note particularly the reference to Augustine:

The pope invents four separate places for the dead.The first is the hell of the damned. The second is purgatory, and Thomas Aquinas says that hell is the middle point, so to speak. It is surrounded by purgatory. But around this there is a third circle. It is for unbaptized infants. The fourth circle is the limbo of the fathers. Here the godly dwelt before the resurrection of Christ. These are nothing but dreams and human inventions. Peter and Paul state clearly that the demons move about in the air. With regard to what Paul says see Eph. 2:2, and in 2 Peter 2:4 it is stated that “God did not spare the angels when they sinned but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of nether gloom to be kept until the judgment.” With these statements I rest content, and I do not inquire into things higher than those handed down by the apostles. Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money. The sophists agree with the pope because of Thomas. But Thomas does not concern us. Augustine makes mention of purgatory somewhere, but he speaks very obscurely. Therefore I do not believe that those four separate classes really exist; for Scripture does not speak this way but testifies that the dead saints are gathered to their people, or to those who believe in the Messiah and awaited His coming, just as Adam, together with all his descendants, died in faith in Christ. But how these saints are kept in definite places, we do not know. [Luther, M. (1999, c1966). Vol. 8: Luther's works, vol. 8 : Lectures on Genesis: Chapters 45-50 (J. J. Pelikan, H. C. Oswald and H. T. Lehmann, Ed.). Luther's Works (8:316). Saint Louis: Concordia Publishing House].

Here again Luther explicitly denies purgatory, then mentions the obscurity of Augustine. He then goes on to deny that "four separate classes really exist." In the same volume, Luther refers to "Masses, purgatory, indulgences, and prayers to the dead" as false forms of worship (LW 8:230). Elsewhere in Luther's lectures on Genesis he states,

[P]urgatory is the greatest falsehood, because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation. Therefore he who is in purgatory is in hell itself; for these are his thoughts: “I am a sinner and must render satisfaction for my sins; therefore I shall make a will and shall bequeath a definite amount of money for building churches and for buying prayers and sacrifices for the dead by the monks and priests.” Such people die in a faith in works and have no knowledge of Christ. Indeed, they hate Him. We die in faith in Christ, who died for our sins and rendered satisfaction for us. He is my Bosom, my Paradise, my Comfort, and my Hope. [Luther, M. (1999, c1964). Vol. 4: Luther's works, vol. 4 : Lectures on Genesis: Chapters 21-25 (J. J. Pelikan, H. C. Oswald and H. T. Lehmann, Ed.). Luther's Works (4:315). Saint Louis: Concordia Publishing House].

And here:

The third sphere is that of purgatory, into which neither the damned nor infants enter; it is for those who, while they believe, yet have not rendered satisfaction for their sins. The souls of these are ransomed by means of indulgences. From this source comes the hogwash of indulgences and the entire papistic religion.The fourth place is the limbo of the fathers. They say that Christ descended to this place, broke it open, and set free—not from hell but from the limbo—the fathers who were troubled by the longing and waiting for Christ but were not enduring punishment or torments. With these silly ideas the papists have filled the church and the world. We have overturned all this completely and maintain that unbaptized infants do not have such a sphere. But in what state they are or what becomes of them we commend to the goodness of God. They do not have faith or Baptism; but whether God receives them in an extraordinary manner and gives them faith is not stated in the Word, and we dare not set down anything as certain. To be deprived of the vision of God is hell itself. They admit that they have will and intellect, especially concerning the vision of God and life; but these are falsehoods. And purgatory is the greatest falsehood, because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation. Therefore he who is in purgatory is in hell itself; for these are his thoughts: “I am a sinner and must render satisfaction for my sins; therefore I shall make a will and shall bequeath a definite amount of money for building churches and for buying prayers and sacrifices for the dead by the monks and priests.” Such people die in a faith in works and have no knowledge of Christ. Indeed, they hate Him. We die in faith in Christ, who died for our sins and rendered satisfaction for us. He is my Bosom, my Paradise, my Comfort, and my Hope. [Luther, M. (1999, c1964). Vol. 4: Luther's works, vol. 4 : Lectures on Genesis: Chapters 21-25 (J. J. Pelikan, H. C. Oswald and H. T. Lehmann, Ed.). Luther's Works (4:315). Saint Louis: Concordia Publishing House].

Comments from Luther similar to these could be greatly multiplied, which is why some Lutherans see any affirmation that Luther held purgatory was an "open question" as a lie of the Devil.

[Elsie]

Father!

I bring you yet another question from Cronos!!

Hop to it!!

[Elsie]

... on what basis do you think that the John of Patmos is the same as the Apostle John?

---

 Why do you care what I think?

 

Haven't you CATHOLIC teaching to TELL you what is Truth?

 

The authorship of the Johannine works—the Gospel of John, Epistles of John, and the Book of Revelation—has been debated by scholars since at least the 2nd century AD.^[1] The main debate centers on who authored the writings, and which of the writings, if any, can be ascribed to a common author.

There may have been a single author for the gospel and the three epistles.^[2] Tradition attributes all the books to John the Apostle.^[2] Most scholars agree that all three letters are written by the same author, although there is debate on who that author is.^[3][4][5] Although some scholars conclude the author of the epistles was different from that of the gospel, all four works probably originated from the same community,^[6] traditionally and plausibly attributed to Ephesus, c. 90-110, but perhaps, according to some scholars, from Syria.^[7]

Some scholars, however, argue that the apostle John wrote none of these works,^[8][9] although others, notably J. A. T. Robinson, F. F. Bruce, Leon Morris, and Martin Hengel^[10] hold the apostle to be behind at least some, in particular the gospel.^[11][12]

In the case of Revelation, many modern scholars agree that it was written by a separate author, John of Patmos, c. 95 with some parts possibly dating to Nero's reign in the early 60s.^[2][13]

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Johannine_works

[Elsie]

It seemed good to the Holy Spirit...

Yet Rome seems to have a different take on it.

[Elsie]

It appears that historical facts and logic do not fare well when inserted into a bag that contains mostly hammers.

[Elsie]

Haven’t you CATHOLIC teaching to TELL you...

... what is Truth?

https://biblehub.com/john/18-38.htm

[Cronos]

So you don't want to be called instructors? for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.

International Standard Version Nor are you to be called ‘Teachers,’ because you have only one teacher, the Messiah!

New American Standard Bible “Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ.

King James Bible Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Young’s Literal Translation nor may ye be called directors, for one is your director — the Christ.

Should nobody be called instructors, or Teachers, or leaders, or masters, or directors, eh, Elsie?

[Cronos]

As you said, "The Bible is the book that Rome assembled"

So then on what case do you hold to that canon?

[Cronos]

oh, sorry, I didn’t realize you were a Mormon

[Cronos]

Yes, Acts details the council of Jerusalem, which as you, Elsie, say was between Catholics with Peter, James, Paul etc

[Cronos]

Quite incorrect. Since you are making a judgement call based on your own individual interpretation of what merits being called scripture or not, this is in not way different from what Joseph Smith or Charles Taze Russell did.

[Cronos]

Remember that Purgatory is salvation. It is not Hell, which is when someone is eternally damned. Purgatory is basically a period of purification so that they can withstand God’s goodness; after all, God is described as a “consuming fire”, and Jesus instructs us to be perfect like our Father in Heaven is perfect. What better way for perfection than for a short time out being purified like gold?

[Cronos]

I have Christian teaching. But if anyone rejects Christian teaching including the basis on which canon was defined in the 4th century then they can no longer justify that the Book of Apocalypse is to be retained in canon - which is why Luther wanted it out.

[Cronos]

And that is why the scholarly opinion was divided over the book of the Apocalypse - namely, was it really written by an Apostle or was john of Patmos not to be conflated with John the Apostle. On what basis would you, daniel, coming 2000 years later make a judgement call on this book? Just on feeling as did Joseph Smith?

[Cronos]

I ask you again -- What attack on Jewish culture in the 16th century do you define?

Which specific aspects of Jewish CULTURE were attacked in your opinion?

Anti-semitism dates to mostly around and post the Black plague in Europe.

The first big pogrom we read of in Europe happened in Grenada in 1066, under the Moorish rulers there.An interesting note to that is why Jews were not persecuted and were nay, welcomed in the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth during the same period and also that the Rzeczpospolita was not affected by the plague - the two seem linked

[Cronos]

Yet the pentecostals oneness do reject the Trinity, calling it unbiblical. They go by their own interpretation of the scriptures put together in canon in the 4th century.

This is in no way different from you as an individual making your own theology which differs from that of the other non-orthodox individuals on this thread

[Elsie]

oh, sorry, I didn’t realize you were a Mormon

It appears there are a LOT of things you don't realize.

[Elsie]

Yes, Acts details the council of Jerusalem, which as you, Elsie, say was between Catholics with Peter, James, Paul etc

Au contraire, mon ami!

It is YOUR Catholics who 'say' that CATHOLICISM was started by Jesus.

ALL of these guys you named were Borged into Catholicism.

[boatbums]

It's funny how I don't see you on the Catholic Caucus threads concerning Purgatory - of which there are several recent ones (i.e., [Catholic Caucus] You have abandoned me in Purgatory!; [Catholic Caucus] Novena for the Holy Souls in Purgatory) - espousing your view that, "It is not some additional punishment. it is not done or reduced by any deeds or prayers or words you or others do.". It seems you only want to defend this belief on threads where non-Catholics can freely discuss why we disagree with the Catholic dogma. Why is that?

[boatbums]

Si! ;o)

[Elsie]

I have Christian teaching.