Luther Thought Purgatory was an Open Question?

Beggars All Reformation and Aplogetics ^ | May 04, 2013 | James Swan

[boatbums]

Luther Thought Purgatory was an Open Question?

I came across this link posted on the Catholic Answers Forums: The Hope of Eternal Life. The link is ecumenical in nature, an attempt to smooth over the edges between Roman Catholicism and Lutheranism. This is the excerpt that was posted on CAF:

181. The most explicit discussion of purgatory in the Confessions comes in the 1537 Smalcald Articles, II, 2, which addressed the mass as sacrifice. Besides being itself a violation of the Gospel, the mass as sacrifice "has produced many noxious maggots and the excrement of various idolatries" (§11), the first of which is purgatory. Purgatory, "with all its pomp, requiem Masses, and transactions, is to be regarded as an apparition of the devil for it obscures the chief article..." (§12). Behind Luther's typically extreme language, however, a more nuanced understanding is elaborated. "Concerning the dead we have received neither command nor instruction. For these reasons, it may be best to abandon it [derhalben man es mocht wohl lassen], even if it were neither error nor idolatry" (§12). In a revised version of the article, Luther added a discussion of the authority of Augustine claimed for the doctrine. "When they have given up their purgatorial 'Mass fairs' (something Augustine never dreamed of), then we will discuss with them whether St. Augustine's word, lacking support from Scripture, may be tolerated and whether the dead may be commemorated at the sacrament. It will not do to formulate articles of faith on the basis of the holy Fathers' works or words" (§14f). The existence of purgatory is not dogmatically denied. Rather, 1) the existence of purgatory is not taught by Scripture and thus cannot be binding doctrine, and 2) belief in purgatory is now hopelessly bound up with unacceptable practices. A belief that could be discussed in principle is concretely objectionable because of its associations.

This excerpt is fascinating because it argues Luther believed:

-Purgatory isn't taught in Scripture, but yet may exist.
-Purgatory is only to be avoided because of its associations with "unacceptable practices."
-If these practices were removed, a proper discussion on purgatory could occur.

According to this article here is Luther's view of purgatory: "A belief that could be discussed in principle is concretely objectionable because of its associations." In other words, purgatory, for Luther, was an open question. Get rid of the abuses attached to it, and then it could be discussed.

In regard to the Smalcald Articles, LW states, "Under these circumstances the elector of Saxony instructed Luther in a letter of Dec. 11, 1536, to prepare a statement indicating the articles of faith in which concessions might be made for the sake of peace and the articles in which no concessions could be made."

Here are the two statements from the Smalcald Articles alluded to above. Read them for yourself and see if Luther is willing to make a concession on purgatory for the sake of peace:

Luther states in Article 12:

12 The first is purgatory. They were so occupied with requiem Masses, with vigils, with the weekly, monthly, and yearly celebrations of requiems, with the common week, with All Souls’ Day, and with soul-baths that the Mass was used almost exclusively for the dead although Christ instituted the sacrament for the living alone. Consequently purgatory and all the pomp, services, and business transactions associated with it are to be regarded as nothing else than illusions of the devil, for purgatory, too, is contrary to the fundamental article that Christ alone, and not the work of man, can help souls. Besides, nothing has been commanded or enjoined upon us with reference to the dead. All this may consequently be discarded, apart entirely from the fact that it is error and idolatry.

Luther states in Article 13:

13 The papists here adduce passages from Augustine and some of the Fathers who are said to have written about purgatory. They suppose that we do not understand for what purpose and to what end the authors wrote these passages. St. Augustine (tr-467) does not write that there is a purgatory, nor does he cite any passage of the Scriptures that would constrain him to adopt such an opinion. He leaves it undecided whether or not there is a purgatory and merely mentions that his mother asked that she be remembered at the altar or sacrament. Now, this is nothing but a human opinion of certain individuals and cannot establish an article of faith. That is the prerogative of God alone. 14 But our papists make use of such human opinions to make men believe their shameful, blasphemous, accursed traffic in Masses which are offered for souls in purgatory, etc. They can never demonstrate these things from Augustine. Only when they have abolished their traffic in purgatorial Masses (which St. Augustine never dreamed of) shall we be ready to discuss with them whether statements of St. Augustine are to be accepted when they are without the support of the Scriptures and whether the dead are to be commemorated in the sacrament. 15 It will not do to make articles of faith out of the holy Fathers’ words or works. Otherwise what they ate, how they dressed, and what kind of houses they lived in would have to become articles of faith — as has happened in the case of relics. This means that the Word of God shall establish articles of faith and no one else, not even an angel.

The reading given to these statements by The Hope of Eternal Life downplays the first explicit rejection of purgatory, and sees the real Luther in his willingness to discuss what Augustine meant when "purgatorial masses" are abolished. The problem as I see it, is this reading of the Smalcald Articles isolates these statements from Luther's total written corpus, particularly any writings after the Smalcald Articles.

For instance, in his later sermons on Genesis, Luther states something with similar characteristics to the Smalcald articles. Note particularly the reference to Augustine:

The pope invents four separate places for the dead.The first is the hell of the damned. The second is purgatory, and Thomas Aquinas says that hell is the middle point, so to speak. It is surrounded by purgatory. But around this there is a third circle. It is for unbaptized infants. The fourth circle is the limbo of the fathers. Here the godly dwelt before the resurrection of Christ. These are nothing but dreams and human inventions. Peter and Paul state clearly that the demons move about in the air. With regard to what Paul says see Eph. 2:2, and in 2 Peter 2:4 it is stated that “God did not spare the angels when they sinned but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of nether gloom to be kept until the judgment.” With these statements I rest content, and I do not inquire into things higher than those handed down by the apostles. Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money. The sophists agree with the pope because of Thomas. But Thomas does not concern us. Augustine makes mention of purgatory somewhere, but he speaks very obscurely. Therefore I do not believe that those four separate classes really exist; for Scripture does not speak this way but testifies that the dead saints are gathered to their people, or to those who believe in the Messiah and awaited His coming, just as Adam, together with all his descendants, died in faith in Christ. But how these saints are kept in definite places, we do not know. [Luther, M. (1999, c1966). Vol. 8: Luther's works, vol. 8 : Lectures on Genesis: Chapters 45-50 (J. J. Pelikan, H. C. Oswald and H. T. Lehmann, Ed.). Luther's Works (8:316). Saint Louis: Concordia Publishing House].

Here again Luther explicitly denies purgatory, then mentions the obscurity of Augustine. He then goes on to deny that "four separate classes really exist." In the same volume, Luther refers to "Masses, purgatory, indulgences, and prayers to the dead" as false forms of worship (LW 8:230). Elsewhere in Luther's lectures on Genesis he states,

[P]urgatory is the greatest falsehood, because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation. Therefore he who is in purgatory is in hell itself; for these are his thoughts: “I am a sinner and must render satisfaction for my sins; therefore I shall make a will and shall bequeath a definite amount of money for building churches and for buying prayers and sacrifices for the dead by the monks and priests.” Such people die in a faith in works and have no knowledge of Christ. Indeed, they hate Him. We die in faith in Christ, who died for our sins and rendered satisfaction for us. He is my Bosom, my Paradise, my Comfort, and my Hope. [Luther, M. (1999, c1964). Vol. 4: Luther's works, vol. 4 : Lectures on Genesis: Chapters 21-25 (J. J. Pelikan, H. C. Oswald and H. T. Lehmann, Ed.). Luther's Works (4:315). Saint Louis: Concordia Publishing House].

And here:

The third sphere is that of purgatory, into which neither the damned nor infants enter; it is for those who, while they believe, yet have not rendered satisfaction for their sins. The souls of these are ransomed by means of indulgences. From this source comes the hogwash of indulgences and the entire papistic religion.The fourth place is the limbo of the fathers. They say that Christ descended to this place, broke it open, and set free—not from hell but from the limbo—the fathers who were troubled by the longing and waiting for Christ but were not enduring punishment or torments. With these silly ideas the papists have filled the church and the world. We have overturned all this completely and maintain that unbaptized infants do not have such a sphere. But in what state they are or what becomes of them we commend to the goodness of God. They do not have faith or Baptism; but whether God receives them in an extraordinary manner and gives them faith is not stated in the Word, and we dare not set down anything as certain. To be deprived of the vision of God is hell itself. They admit that they have will and intellect, especially concerning the vision of God and life; but these are falsehoods. And purgatory is the greatest falsehood, because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation. Therefore he who is in purgatory is in hell itself; for these are his thoughts: “I am a sinner and must render satisfaction for my sins; therefore I shall make a will and shall bequeath a definite amount of money for building churches and for buying prayers and sacrifices for the dead by the monks and priests.” Such people die in a faith in works and have no knowledge of Christ. Indeed, they hate Him. We die in faith in Christ, who died for our sins and rendered satisfaction for us. He is my Bosom, my Paradise, my Comfort, and my Hope. [Luther, M. (1999, c1964). Vol. 4: Luther's works, vol. 4 : Lectures on Genesis: Chapters 21-25 (J. J. Pelikan, H. C. Oswald and H. T. Lehmann, Ed.). Luther's Works (4:315). Saint Louis: Concordia Publishing House].

Comments from Luther similar to these could be greatly multiplied, which is why some Lutherans see any affirmation that Luther held purgatory was an "open question" as a lie of the Devil.

[dp0622]

Well it’s not Guns N Roses but that’s probably considered a good thing by most fans of the song :)

Cool song. Nice moody atmosphere in the music.

[Mark17]

Another one you might like.

[dp0622]

That there is pretty funny :)

I wonder why comments on the song are disabled.

It’s funny. I think my cat is a fascist.

[Mark17]

It’s funny. I think my cat is a fascist.

:-)

[Mark17]

So, even though we cannot precisely determine where Jesus was and what He did during those three days, it seems apparent that He presented the gospel message (not to have them get saved) to those in spirit prison and possibly also to those in Abraham's bosom. https://carm.org/where-did-jesus-go-after-he-died-cross

Yes, I think Jesus went to Hades, and led the righteous dead, from Abraham's bosom to Heaven.
My opinion is, the spirits in prison, were the unsaved dead. I think He said something to them too, like their doom, in the lake of fire, was sure, and fixed, FOREVER. If any of them ever thought they were going to get a second chance at Heaven, He put the kabash on that rumor.

[ealgeone]

Those verses are not clear.

But this continues to illustrate the problem for the Roman Catholic....which ECF does the RC draw upon for they often contradict Rome on the doctrines near and dear to them?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“The Virgin birth of Jesus Christ is also in Scripture. Yet many refuse to accept it.”

I accept it because the Holy Spirit inspired it.

Purgatory is no where in Scripture. I obviously don’t believe it.

Christ’s death is sufficient to cover all sin for the person who entrusts himself to Him alone, apart from human efforts and false rituals.

[metmom]

None.

I am cleansed by the blood of Jesus and covered with HIS righteousness.

My works will be examined and tested AS IF by fire, to see whether they merit reward in heaven, but they do not determine my salvation and my reward is not heaven. Heaven is already a given for me.

I may not have any reward beyond that, but I’m still going.

[metmom]

I don’t know any Catholics, who wear the scapular today.

I have seen that in the mall recently.

Hispanics.

[metmom]

We accept stuff in Scripture as God’s word is Truth.

We do not accept the claims, imaginings, fantasies, and wishful thinking of men who claim things that are not found there.

[metmom]

I agree with you assessment of those "difficult" verses. I believe the sin unto death, refers to physical death, not the spiritual death of the soul. If a true believer wants to engage in continuous, unrepentant sin, they might be short for the world. I don't believe Ananias and Sapphira lost their salvation, but they surely kicked the crock pot, I mean, kick the bucket. If you want to live a long life, then behave.

Paul addresses that in Corinthians with and man who was sleeping with his father's wife.

1 Corinthians 5:1-5 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.

For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

[Luircin]

Oh my dear sweet vlad.

If you hadn’t made an ad hominem AND a personal attack, your earlier rant wouldn’t have been deleted.

It’s something that NPCs do, and Christians shouldn’t.

[Luircin]

Nice rant you’ve given there.

But you’re not arguing against me, you’re arguing against the Word of God.

“10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it. 11 For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty.”

So yeah, stealing a pen makes you just as guilty before God as murdering someone.

You’re not arguing against me; you’re arguing against God.

And all the ‘I hate Protestants with a hot hot hate’ ranting on FR won’t change that, vlad.

[ealgeone]

So yeah, stealing a pen makes you just as guilty before God as murdering someone.

That's a difficult concept for Roman Catholics to understand. They seem to focus on just the "biggie" sins...and then only if they actually do them. They forget the thought aspect of sin.

One sin....I'd even say, the mere thought of stealing the pen, would be sufficient to deny you Heaven if you were trying to keep the Law.

Are there different consequences here on earth? Yes. You probably won't go to jail for stealing a pen from work.

However, you could be fired.

[Mark17]

I have seen that in the mall recently.

Hispanics.

Well, I figured there might be some around. It’s been many years since I wore one, but, as I recall, I think it was made of wool, and was very uncomfortable against the skin. Don’t the Mormons have something similar to this?

[Luircin]

It’s nothing more than witchcraft with a new coat of paint.

Try to force God to do something by performing the right rituals, wearing the right clothes, saying the right words.

Very definition of sorcery in the Bible.

[Jack Black]

I wonder how familiar Luther was with Dante Alighieri’s “Divine Comedy”? The epic poem was completed in 1320, so it was already a classic at the time Luther was alive.

[Jack Black]

The claim was made out of bias against Protestants by a Catholic as it always is, ergo pointing out that anti-Semitism had been practiced to an odious degree by Rome for over a thousand years at that point is fair game.

What claim? That Luther was a terrible anti-Semite. That's not really a claim, it's an obvious fact.

Who are you saying has bias against Protestants? Anyone who points out the fact of Luther's anti-Semitism (say by reading or quoting his long book on the subject)?

You seem to want to turn criticism of a single individual into a team sport, where anyone who criticizes Luther is automatically a Protestant-hating Catholic. That's an unfortunate response, and not true.

One can point out that Luther was a terrible anti-Semite without being biased against all Protestants, past, present and future.

I think the important thing with any organization is that they admit the obvious failings of their founders and previous leaders and work to do better.

Lutherans, Catholics, Protestants and all Christians have a lot of work to do.

Pointing out that anti-Semitism was widespread in the Christian religion since early on, as you have, and naming those most responsible for it, is, I agree, a fair and even important task.

This article is a good stepping off place: Christianity and anti-Semitism.

[RegulatorCountry]

The constant refrain on the FR religion forum from Catholics is that Luther was anti-Semitic, which coming from members of another religious group that was every bit as anti-Semitic, strikes many as hypocritical.

[Jack Black]

Thanks, I don't really have any background on those discussions, having never participated in them. Is there a ping-list for non-devotional non-caucus religious threads?

Those would be of great interest to me.