When Churches Become Scenes of Sexual Abuse: Why Does It Happen?

Townhall ^ | 08/16/2018 | Haley Halverson

[Yaelle]

Murder is the worst sin. Near it is gossip. There are many sins and the ickiest aren’t always worse than some of the more subtler ones.

[dsc]

I really want to read that Guimaraes book.

[Crucial]

I think the sexual abuse in the Church is part of a concerted agenda to set boys on the path to lifelong homosexuality and weaken the Church.

[miss marmelstein]

You have the conversational and intellectual style of an undiapered infant.

I stand by my original comment.

[miss marmelstein]

I haven't been over to the Catholic League in a while so I did check it out - he's no apologist for criminals within the Church so I thought he'd be an honest arbiter without the hysterics you see on this site. Perhaps on account of his honesty my comment was so denounced. Who knows? Who cares?

[NKP_Vet]

Read again, then compare to today’s Canon. Therein lies the problem. These monsters know the worse thing the church will do is kick them out of the priesthood. Pope St. Pius V: “Having determined to do away with everything that may in some way offend the Divine Majesty, we resolve to punish, above all and without indulgence, those things which, by the authority of the Sacred Scriptures or by most grievous examples, are more repugnant to God than any others and raise His wrath: that is, negligence in divine worship, ruinous simony, the crime of blasphemy, and the execrable libidinous vice against nature [sodomy]. For such faults peoples and nations are scourged by God Who, according to His just condemnation, sends catastrophes, wars, famine, and pestilence ... Let the judges know that if, even after this our Constitution, they are negligent in punishing these crimes, they will not only be guilty of them in the divine judgment but also will incur our indignation ... If someone commits that nefarious crime against nature that caused divine wrath to be unleashed against the children of iniquity, he will be given over to the secular arm for punishment [of death]; and if he is a cleric, he will be subject to the same punishment after having been stripped of all his degrees [of ecclesiastical dignity].” - St. Pius V, Constitution Cum primum, April 1, 1566, in Bullarium Romanum (Rome: Typographia Reverendae Camerae Apostolicae, Mainardi, 1738), vol. 4, chap. 2, p. 284, apud Atila S. Guimaraes, Vatican II, Homosexuality and Pedophilia, TIA, 2004, pp. 19-20 ************************* Compare the watered down 1983 Code: Can. 1395 §1. A cleric who lives in concubinage, other than the case mentioned in ⇒ can. 1394, and a cleric who persists with scandal in another external sin against the sixth commandment of the Decalogue is to be punished by a suspension. If he persists in the delict after a warning, other penalties can gradually be added, including dismissal from the clerical state. §2. A cleric who in another way has committed an offense against the sixth commandment of the Decalogue, if the delict was committed by force or threats or publicly or with a minor below the age of sixteen years, is to be punished with just penalties, not excluding dismissal from the clerical state if the case so warrants.

[SeekAndFind]

RE: part of a concerted agenda

Who is coordinating this?

[Crucial]

Leftists have always hated to Catholic Church. I couldn’t tell you exactly who but there are always the usual suspect: Soros, Obama, the Clintons, etc. The Left is always in lockstep anyway so individual names are almost unimportant.

[Antoninus]

No one did anything because the Bishop ran half the schools. The Bishop controlled the DA, and the cops. My friends were told by the church that they would go to Hell. And not today’s hell...old school Catholic scary hell.

Ahhhhh....you've hit on the crux of the problem but you're just slightly off. The bishop didn't control anything--he was part of the club. He was in cahoots with the DA and the cops. He was probably in cahoots with local and national politicians as well and they all protected each other and covered up their disgraces. Since they all had the goods on each other, they all worked together.

This isn't just a failure of the Catholic Church. It was a failure of all of those institutions who were supposed to act as checks on each other and failed to do so--religious and secular alike. These evil bishops could not have gotten away with the enormities they did without the willing assistance of evil men within the secular authorities. If you think the mayor, police chief and city council members didn't know, you're fooling yourself.

And as dsc mentioned above, the media was complicit as well. They only began to blow the whistle on this when the bishops in question were no longer of use to their agenda. They knew for years beforehand what was going on and said nothing--kind of like how they are acting today with regard to sex abuse in the public schools. They know. They are quiet about it. Ask yourself why.

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

Yeah, really.

Nobody argued with the policy that a "retreat" could cure a sodomite from his desire to bugger boys either.

So the KGB sent a whole bunch of homosexual Russian agents to join the Roman Catholic Church in the 1930s. So many that they all got into positions of power quickly inside the church, took over the majority of the bishop posts and leadership of the seminaries and deceived all the faithful priests.

So it was not really the Roman Catholic Church who was doing it even though they allowed those KGB agents in and then promoted them and followed them blindly.

O-kay.

[Antoninus]

I am here to tell you that sodomites were deliberately escorted into the priesthood through seminaries, for whatever reason.

You are correct. The reason was to destroy the Catholic Church which was seen by the communists as retrograde and an impediment to their goals. Someone read The Book of Gommorah by Saint Peter Damian took seriously his warnings regarding the damage that could be done to the Church by introducing the satanic sin of sodomy.

[Antoninus]

Not all Pedos are homos. Not all Homos are Pedos.

True and true. But also true is that +80% of the sex abuse cases in the Catholic Church were homosexual in nature.

There is a reason that the "Greek vice" was traditionally understood a relationship between a grown man and a teenager or younger. There were no same-sex "marriages" between older men in antiquity. Only abuse of boys.

[Antoninus]

It's a matter of public record. Ever heard of Bella Dodd? She was a communist agent who reverted to Catholicism under the auspices of Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen before her death. She said:

"In the late 1920’s and 1930’s, directives were sent from Moscow to all Communist Party organizations. In order to destroy the [Roman] Catholic Church from within, party members were to be planted in seminaries and within diocesan organizations... I, myself, put some 1,200 men in [Roman] Catholic seminaries."

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

So she was just calling up the seminaries and telling them to take these sodomite communists as students?

So where were they coming from? Who were their parish priests that recommended them?

Here is the problem, she could not have done it if the ground work had not been laid at least 30 years before. Long before the KGB was around. In fact the KGB was not around until 1954.

And let's not forget that she was saying this in the 1950's. Before these sodomite communists could have climbed very high. She knew who they were and yet somehow they were not rousted out from their places?

I am sorry, but this attempt to claim that the Roman Catholic Church is not at fault for ordaining sodomites because of some vast plot that they apparently have known about for 70 years and made no attempt to clean up their mess is a bit much.

Either they were all fools or they saw no problem with this.

Which was it?

[PeterPrinciple]

Not all Pedos are homos. Not all Homos are Pedos.

True and true.

---

Homos are catchers or pitchers. The pitchers prey upon the youth. The youth become catchers.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=catcher%20or%20pitcher

It is a distinction without practical meaning.

[Antoninus]

Here is the problem, she could not have done it if the ground work had not been laid at least 30 years before. Long before the KGB was around. In fact the KGB was not around until 1954.

There is corroborating evidence that the Russian communists attempted to infiltrate the Catholic Church in the Venona papers under an operation called "The Outstretched Hand." Some of this is discussed in Herbert Romerstein's book, The Venona Secrets.

Also, the following evaluation of Dodd's statements may be found in The Rite of Sodomy, Volume 5 by Randy Engel:

"What is to be made of Dr. Bella Dodd’s statements on the Communist infiltration of the Catholic Church beginning with Lenin and continuing into the Cold War era and perhaps beyond? Certainly her claim that the Communists had drawn up plans to infiltrate the American clergy and other religious institutions was supported, at that time, by the testimony of other Communist defectors like Manning Johnson and Elizabeth Bentley. At first, her statement that “we,” presumably the Soviets, placed 1,100 men into the priesthood seems extravagant, but when one recalls that the CP/USA recruited some 35,000 teachers and professors and that the KGB included not only thousands of agents but also several million “cooperators,” then that number does not appear to be out of line. Further, in 1969, Dr. Richard Day, the National Medical Director of Planned Parenthood and an Eastern Establishment figure repeated many of the same statements that Dodd had made."

And let's not forget that she was saying this in the 1950's. Before these sodomite communists could have climbed very high. She knew who they were and yet somehow they were not rousted out from their places?

That is a very good point and certainly one worth further investigation. It's possible that some were rousted out but quietly as happens even to this day--Cardinal McCarrick most recently. Others--perhaps many others--climbed the ladder and opened the floodgates for their brethren.

I am sorry, but this attempt to claim that the Roman Catholic Church is not at fault for ordaining sodomites because of some vast plot that they apparently have known about for 70 years and made no attempt to clean up their mess is a bit much.

There's no claim here that the leaders of the Church are not at fault. Not in the least bit. But the fact is that evidence exists that there absolutely was an widespread effort by communists infiltrate and undermine the Church.

Either they were all fools or they saw no problem with this.

Indeed, but you're forgetting two other possibilities--they were too blind or too naive to the danger posed by those approaching them with an "outstretched hand". Communists are nothing if not master deceivers and intriguers.

[Campion]

The Bishop controlled the DA, and the cops

Then the DA belongs in prison, too. There's an infinite amount of venom available for the church, but next to none for the government officials who didn't do their jobs. Why is that?

The DA is there to prosecute lawbreakers, not protect his friends.

[dsc]

You argue this like a leftist argues politics—with blind malice, impervious to fact.

The placement of agents in seminaries is fact, exposed in Soviet documents after the fall of the USSR.

You misrepresent a period of decades—two, three, four, five decades—as “quickly.”

You dishonestly restate my position to an unlikely extreme—that they “all” rose to power, that “the majority” of bishops are these first-generation agents, and that they “deceived all” the faithful priests. That’s three lies in one sentence, comrade.

The next sentence contains only two lies: that the Church “allowed” these agents and their recruits into the priesthood and then “followed them blindly.”

Instead of arguing against what was said, you invented five lies and attributed them to me.

Shameful.

Conservatives are, above all, honest.

You really think the KGB wasn’t good enough to infiltrate agents into seminaries? An active agent of the USSR was a trusted aide pushing FDR’s wheelchair at Yalta.

You really think that none of these highly intelligent, highly trained agents could rise within the clergy over twenty, thirty, or forty years? You really think these agents couldn’t draw in more sodomites behind them?

You really believe that none of the sodomite bishops were brought in by sodomites who were brought in by sodomites who were brought in by these highly intelligent and trained agents?

You’re so eager to blame the victim that you’re willing to say anything.

[dsc]

“So she was just calling up the seminaries and telling them to take these sodomite communists as students?”

How do you think people get into West Point and Annapolis? Doesn’t it even occur to you that these sodomite communists were pretending *not* to be sodomite communists? What, do you think they had “sodomite communist” tattooed across their foreheads?

“So where were they coming from? Who were their parish priests that recommended them?”

I begin to suspect that you are ignorant of the capabilities of the KGB. Finding and recruiting leftard sodomites was child’s play for them.

“Here is the problem”

Facepalm.

“she could not have done it if the ground work had not been laid at least 30 years before.”

Nonsense. Twenty years would have been more than enough.

“Long before the KGB was around. In fact the KGB was not around until 1954.”

The name of the organization is irrelevant. I tend to use “KGB” because I am of that generation, but the organization that was for a period known as the KGB has existed from the inception of the USSR to the present day.

“And let’s not forget that she was saying this in the 1950’s. Before these sodomite communists could have climbed very high.”

They couldn’t have climbed very high in twenty years? You really want to make that claim?

“She knew who they were and yet somehow they were not rousted out from their places?”

She might have remembered some names, but not many. She was, after all, a dunce. If you were not blinded by malice, you would see that it was simply not possible to blow the lid on this at that point in history. Any accusation she might have made would have brought the full fury of the media, academia, and the demonrat party down on her, and would have come to naught.

“I am sorry, but this attempt to claim that the Roman Catholic Church is not at fault for ordaining sodomites because of some vast plot that they apparently have known about for 70 years”

Another lie. The Church, at large, has not “apparently” known about this for 70 years, and no one but you said such a thing. The left kept the lid on this for decades. It didn’t come out until, as I said, the leftist media began breaking these stories and using them against the Church.

“and made no attempt to clean up their mess is a bit much.”

Boy, you really don’t care at all if what you say is true. Read the report. According to your source, these things peaked in the 60s and 70s, then declined, and no reports were received since the turn of the century.

Pretty good for “no attempt.”

“Either they were all fools or they saw no problem with this. Which was it?”

False dichotomy. The third alternative—the truth—is that the Soviets were really, really good. Better even than most people think the pathetic CIA was.

Ever hear of the Sparrow Academy?

You haven’t a leg to stand on. All you can do is blame people for not knowing what they could not have known, and hold them responsible for what they could not have prevented.

[HamiltonJay]

The church welcomed “non practicing” homosexuals into its ranks begining in the 60s... this is the end result...

Yes abuse happened before... and yes the church betrayed everything right by covering this up.. but they let a cancer in that now must be removed but won’t even be honest about what the problem is.