Posted on 08/03/2018 9:55:47 PM PDT by unlearner
LEXINGTON, Kentucky, Pro-homosexual dissident 'Catholic' groups see in Pope Francis' ‘changing’ of the Church’s teaching on the death penalty the hope that the Church will one day also change its teaching against homosexuality.
New Ways Ministry called the change in the Catechism proof that "Church teaching can change."
"It's important for Catholic advocates for LGBT equality to take note of this change because for decades Catholic opponents of LGBT equality argued that it is impossible to change church teaching. They often pointed to the fact that condemnations of same-sex relationships were inscribed in the Catechism, and so were not open for discussion or change. Yet, the teaching on the death penalty is in the Catechism, too, and, in fact, to make this change in teaching, it was the text of the Catechism that Francis changed," the group stated on its website.
New Ways Ministry, which works to "promote the acceptance of LGBT people," said that Pope Francis' move will help advance "LGBT equality" in a number of ways.
"First, we now have a clear, explicit contemporary example of church teaching changing, and also a look into how it can be done: with a papal change to the Catechism," it stated.
"Second, we can see that the process that brought about this change has been decades of theological debate and discussion, and not just a papal whim. That means the theological and even ecclesial discussions and debates right now about LGBT people have great potential to shape future changes in church teaching in regard to those topics," it added.
The pro-gay group was not the only one to see the significance of Pope Francis' rewrite of the Catechism.
In a post that appeared yesterday on Twitter, Lexington-based “Fortunate Families” wrote:
The church cannot change its teaching. That is what so many others say about other topics, for example regarding LGBTQ persons. But doctrine develops. Today’s news is a sterling example.
"The idea first floated by [the] Pope on Catechism’s 25th anniversary last fall to signify development of doctrine,” the tweet continued, “rescript issued today sees Francis issue edit of the 1994 official text, now deeming capital punishment ‘inadmissible’-- the new formulation.”
“Development of doctrine”, legitimately used to describe how the Catholic Church refines and expands, but never undermines or rejects, what was taught earlier, has now been interpreted by some to mean the erasure of settled Church teaching.
Critics say Pope Francis attempted to do that yesterday when he promulgated a new teaching concerning the death penalty in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, saying that it was “inadmissible.” The perennial teaching of the Church, based on Scripture and unanimously accepted by the Church Fathers and every pope until Francis, is that legitimate civil authority may impose the death penalty on a malefactor. Although both Saint John Paul II and Benedict XVI were strongly opposed to capital punishment--and John Paul’s Catechism strongly circumscribed it--neither pope denied this principle.
Pope Francis’ innovation has already become a club for American liberals to beat conservatives with. Jane Fleming Kleeb, Chair of the Democratic Party in Nebraska, has tweeted “Let's be clear Nebraskans, @GovRicketts is going against the teachings of the church. We can change leaders by voting different on Nov. 6--Democrats are against the death penalty.”
Fortunate Families, founded in 1992 by Mary Ellen and Casey Lopata, the Catholic parents of a same-sex attracted man, is a group of Catholic religious and laypeople who dissent on authentic Church teaching regarding sexuality and marriage. From 2010 until this July Fortunate Families was part of a coalition with Call to Action, the banned Dignity, and the censured New Ways ministry.
Astonishingly, since November 2017 Bishop John Stowe, OFM of Lexington has served as the dissident group’s “ecclesial advisor”. Stowe is one of the five bishops who have endorsed Fr. James Martin’s pro-LGBT book Building a Bridge. The bishop was appointed to the Lexington diocese by Pope Francis in 2015.
Fortunate Families was last in the news when a Lexington Catholic church stretched an LGBT flag across its front lawn. The first executive director of the group, Stan “JR” Zerkowski, is a parishioner at St. Paul’s parish, and told media that he hoped the banner got wide publicity.
“This is a church that is open to all people and I hope this sign gets that across,” he said in the TV report. “I don’t think a Catholic Church has ever had a sign like this before in front of it during Pride Week or any other time. However, in other parts of the country we see this regularly.”
The banner read “LBGTQ+ Catholic /Family, Friends & Allies/all are welcome”, insinuating that at other Catholic churches Catholics who experience same-sex desires or suffer from gender dysphoria are barred from the worship of God.
Former homosexual Joseph Sciambra retweeted the group’s Twitter message, saying “Bishop Stowe’s ‘Fortunate Families’ believe that the [Catechism of the Catholic Church] will also ‘change’ in terms of homosexuality. FF operatives are embedded within several dioceses around the US.”
Sciambra, a survivor of the San Francisco 1990s “gay scene”, is dedicated to helping people with same-sex attractions avoid being trapped in what he says is a dangerous way of life.
That is NOT even close to what he said.
In fact, he spoke very nicely about your denomination.
Many Catholics, when asked if they are Christians, will say “no I am a Catholic”
So?
You did not do so.
You've made an accusation which you refuse to withdraw or support with evidence.
Sorry. But once again I don't believe you.
Of course I did.
But you won’t go look.
Next you say you don’t believe I experienced something that I did experience.
So you think I lied? Go ahead and say it.
That some Catholics will say no, I’m a Catholic when being asked if they are a Christian.
You’ve claimed I’m a liar and most Catholics deny being Christians.
You’re making stuff up.
That's my point. I never said you lied in the first place, yet you have accussed me of doing so.
Of course not.
But many of us have experienced the same thing or said the same thing when we were Catholics.
“Experienced” what?
That was a statement. What are you looking for?
Just went through that one from 2011. I really miss many of those Freepers - some now banned, some just not posting anymore, some who have gone on to meet the Lord. {{{sniff}}}
“That’s my point, it seems you don’t consider Catholics to be Christians.”
What I meant was that I do not see being a Christian requires this. I am not making an exclusionary statement.
I think a person is “Christian” if he or she identifies as “Christian”. The word was originally intended as a mockery of followers of Christ, and that is how it is used in the few places it is found in the Bible. Yet, Christians embraced the word because they were not ashamed to be mocked for following Christ.
In my opinion, there are many people—Protestant and Catholic—who identify as Christians, but will not make it into Heaven. And my opinion is that there will be some from both categories who do make it to Heaven.
I have a good friend who is Catholic, and I believe she is born again according to the true message of the Gospel. I believe she will be in Heaven. We avoid issues of debate revolving around the sectarian differences. But she also knows where I stand. I’ve jokingly told her she is saved in spite of the Church she attends rather than because of it, and she actually admits that most of what brought her to Christ took place apart from the Church she attends. She studies the Bible and prays, and I would not know she was Catholic except that she told me. We’ve had many, long and productive conversations about the Lord, the scriptures, and conservative politics.
I have another friend who is a lapsed Catholic and probably not headed for Heaven, unfortunately, even though he is generally a pretty nice guy—always helping people.
Another friend grew up Catholic but left it for a Charismatic group, but I feel he is not born again. My opinion doesn’t matter that much though. God knows those who are His.
My perception of who is a genuine believer and not merely a professing Christian, has to do with what I believe is the true Gospel message more so than what denomination they attend. Obviously I am biased to think those who share similar views as me are the true believers, and those who have different views I am suspicious of. And I think that is natural for everyone.
But when it comes to conservative politics I feel there is room for some mutual cooperation. We agree on major issues: pro-life, pro-family, limited government, and religious freedom. It is important that we not allow our religious differences to hinder our ability to work together in these areas.
This may be difficult if all we ever do is fight over who is a real Christian, who is obeying God, and who is going to make it to Heaven. And that’s even more so when it gets heated and the insults start flying.
Another thing we probably almost all agree on is that no one can be forced or coerced into being born again. Salvation is the work of God. I can not make someone believe what I believe by fighting them. We are not Muslims who believe in spreading their religion by the sword.
The Bible says to “let us reason together” on the matters of forgiveness and salvation. We should continue to have reasoned debates. We should have our private discussions and activities with those who share our views. And we should not forget to develop dialogue on the things we agree on, not just the things we disagree about. Then, perhaps, we can accomplish some things in the political arena that are mutually beneficial.
We’ve got some good Catholic and Protestant people in office and in the courts. We’ve got bad apples in both categories as well. We can cooperate to get more conservatives in these positions.
I don’t know about all Catholics, but I certainly said that when I was a catholic.
Do we still have our work cut out for us? 😁🤣
I simply do not feel sorry for them. LGBT, as pointed out, is right behind the door. But they brought it on themselves. Luther saw this a long time ago.
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and [h]fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with [i]the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”
Them Prots says it's because they want TRUTH to be seen as well as our cherished traditions.
--Catholic_Wannabe_Dude(Hail Mary)
LOL! Another fib. Of course, it is the evangelicals HERE on FR who continually say Catholicism is not Christian. Projection.
Syncro; I should be so lucky!
The rent’s pretty cheap; but the view could be a lot better.
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