Posted on 06/23/2018 7:48:28 AM PDT by Salvation
Bowing at the mention of Jesus’ name is an old practice that has since fallen into wide disuse
Msgr. Charles Pope June 10, 2018
Question: I was taught to nod my head when the name of Jesus was spoken. I see some priests and congregants do it, but not most. What is the current practice? — Diane Garrett, via email
Answer: Liturgically it is not required. This is a pious custom that, while less common today, is still observed by many. This is not only in the liturgy, but at any time the name of Jesus is uttered, and also, quite commonly, the name of Mary. In the traditional Latin Mass, where clergy wear birettas (a kind of square hat with a pom), there is the additional tipping (lifting off) of the biretta at the names of Jesus, Mary and the saint of the day. This external and very visible action also helped the faithful remember to bow their heads.
This laudable custom has sadly declined. Some clergy and others still observe it, and, while it is not required, it is worthy of being encouraged. Other customs too should not be forgotten, such as making the Sign of the Cross when passing a Catholic Church, praying the Angelus at noon and 6 p.m., and so forth. The generations raised in the 1960s and ’70s largely abandoned such practices. However, many of their children have rediscovered some of these lost customs like a precious heirloom brought down from the attic. Thus, while being careful not to harshly judge those who do not follow this non-required custom, many can joyfully take it up again and encourage others to do so.
You are correct sir. When I was a catholic, I went to catholic grade school and high school. My parents were very catholic, but in school, we heard about Luther, a whole lot. Some of the nuns told us that Luther was in Hell fire 🔥 and brimstone. Years later, after I left the Catholic Church, in favor of the simplicity of the “real” gospel, I figured Luther was probably in Heaven, but we rarely think about him. I would say, the only time I hear his name, is on these threads. 😆
Definitely gets the award for the most ignorant post I’ve seen. At least you’re admitting to being an ignorant anti Catholic bigot. Have a blessed day
Worshipping Mary as a co-redemtrix mediator between man and God and working your way to reward of salvation through earning something for fealty to rituals and sacraments, and avoiding the imaginary purgatory by serving Mary and rosary beads, well those are not Christian. Catholicism is another religion entirely.
And BTW I am having a blessed day, though you were being a smartalec, based upon the rest of your insulting post. Have nice day ... the 'old Russian' would say to dismiss someone. You're dismissed.
Does this make you want to spew a nasty insult such as dsc posted yesterday? I'm sure you will get catholic endorsements.
All obfuscation for not being able to refute the logic of what I posted. Respond to my reasoning, if you can. And to be clear, I am speaking only of what Paul is saying in Galatians itself. For the sake of argument, Luther and his Protestant followers could be right about the principle of faith and works, but this does not mean that this is what Paul is addressing in Galatians. Show from Galatians, how he is speaking of anything other than circumcision and the Mosaic Law.
“Respond to my reasoning, if you can”
Oh, I simply don’t believe you did the necessary work to undergird a legitimate opinion.
It was your choice and it is certainly your right to not do the work or to do it.
I remember in my first semester of seminary, a new student asked a question, and the professor answered, “If you were in your third year, I’d answer your question, but you haven’t yet done the work to have a frame of reference to understand the answer.”
And by the way, this student entered seminary thinking he knew everything before he began.
Paul's Concern for the Galatians8 But then, indeed, not having known God, ye were in servitude to those not by nature gods, 9 and now, having known God — and rather being known by God — how turn ye again unto the weak and poor elements to which anew ye desire to be in servitude? 10 days ye observe, and months, and times, and years! 11 I am afraid of you, lest in vain I did labour toward you. [Young's Literal Translation]
Is it your impression that Paul was referring to Jewish days and months and times? ... learned from the Judaisers?
I would reason these are not but pagan holidays and months and seasons. The Letter to the Galatians was sent too soon after Paul left them for the Judaisers to have succeeded in so much ritual living. These were pagan observances.
All of Galatians 3 is about faith and Grace, and Jesus redeeming us from the sin curse. TO ILLUSTRATE this rescue, this grace bestowed, Paul relates the opposite, the curse of the law he was familiar with, a law and rituals which Judaisers were seeking to inveigle The Grace of God over. Paul then shifts to the pagan ritual behaviors which mark days and months and seasons.
It is interesting, from that standpoint, that Catholicism fell under a similar inveigling by inserting pagan months and days and seasons into the behavioral pattern for believers. It is thought that Rome did this to bring in more converts. I dunno
Paul's Final Warning11 Ye see in how large letters I have written to you with my own hand; 12 as many as are willing to make a good appearance in the flesh, these constrain you to be circumcised — only that for the cross of the Christ they may not be persecuted, 13 for neither do those circumcised themselves keep the law, but they wish you to be circumcised, that in your flesh they may glory. 14 And for me, let it not be — to glory, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which to me the world hath been crucified, and I to the world; 15for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation;
This passage turns the entire focus back to rejecting the judaisers. But Paul staged the lesson by referring tot he tiems and seasons and days and months observed from pagan rites, as if the Judaisers had set about to teach those rituals and rites were a fashion of the true rituals and rites as practiced in Judaism, so the Galatians should embrace Judaism because it was the truer form of the days and months and seasons.
It is apparent to all that he can't.
You are clueless just how ignorant of the poster you are.
Prove what? That the Risen Lord has a heart and blood flowing through it? If that is what your are referring to, I think that you will have to prove that He does not have a heart or blood flowing through it, since that is a very odd position to take, one that few Christians would hold.
Or are you referring to something else?
My last statement to you is a fact, Catholics interpret the Sacred Scriptures through the eyes of Faith, which is a gift of the Holy Spirit, that they received in Baptism. They use their human reason in conjunction with the gift of Faith, and generally speaking human reason can only be rightly used as a negative rule of Faith, human reason can rightly rule things out that do not belong to the Faith.
What I see here on FR and elsewhere, protestants start with their human reason as a positive rule of Faith, hence when they read the Sacred Scriptures the reason, which is fallible, becomes a positive guide of their faith. Hence they get so many things wrong, even though they spend years and years studying the Bible, they even study Greek and Hebrew (never Latin) with the hopes of becoming expert in their exegesis, but they come to many disparate positions on many points of faith.
One thing they tend to all agree on is that there is not one central authority who has been tasked with safeguarding and transmitting the sacred deposit of Faith left to us by the Apostles.
By the way, those same Apostles are all buried in Catholic Churches around the world, not one is buried in a protestant church. As the book of Revelation 21:14 tells us, “And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them, the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.” I have seen the grave of St James in Santiago, St. Thomas is buried in a cathedral in India that was miraculously spared from the tsunami, St. Mark is in Venice, St. Peter is in Rome, etc...We know where all of the Apostles are buried because they are part of our holy family of God’s Love, the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven.
Not really. The illusory superiority is readily apparent.
I beg you to read what I wrte again, for you continue to respond as if Paul was simply opposing circumcision and as if I were saying that Paul taught that we are free observance of the moral law of God, versus the place it has.
Paul is NOT attacking icircumcision itself, but what it represents in the context of justification by law-keeping, which is what the Judaizers were seducing them to assent to.
1.Context: the seduction of Judaizers color="#800000">I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you , and would pervert the gospel of Christ. (Galatians 1:6-7) :
I would they were even cut off which trouble you. (Galatians 5:12)
2. The false gospel: that law-keeping would appropriate justification and life (the only juxtaposition is btwn justification s under the Law, representing by actual merit, versus faith, which works by love):
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. (Galatians 2:16)
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. (Galatians 3:10)
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. (Galatians 3:11-12)
That the Law represents the supreme attempt to attain justification and life, versus faith: the contrast thus being btwn justification by works versus faith, with no alternative of appropriating justification and life by perfectly keeping the moral law:
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. (Galatians 3:11-12)
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe . (Galatians 3:21-22)
Circumcision itself is not forbidden, but it is superfluous spiritually, while in the context of the Judaizes to be circumcised represented justification on the basis of perfect obedience to the whole law:
Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. (1 Corinthians 7:18-19)
Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. (Galatians 5:2)
Justification and life (a new creature by regeneration) are appropriated by faith, this being the only alternative:
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. (Galatians 6:15)
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith ? (Galatians 3:2)
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:24-26)
But while saving faith renders one "accepted in the Beloved and seated with Him in Heaven, (Eph. 1:6; 2:6) on His account, yet this leads to keeping the moral law, but not as the means of justification before God (the believer is to live out the reality faith obtained for him):
For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Galatians 5:13-14)
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. (Galatians 5:25)
Thus those who walk after the flesh evidence they are not true believers, and are damned:
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:21)
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. (Galatians 6:8)
Since faith is manifested by what it effects - obedience in heart and deed by the Spirit - thus man is judged by works as regards whether he is a believer, and thus in that sense works justify a person, those who are "doers of the Law, as per Rm. 8:4:
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, (Galatians 5:22) on:
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (Romans 2:13)
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:3-4)
In conclusion, circumcision itself is not the problem, but what it represents, that of justification by perfect obedience to the supreme system of justification by law-keeping, versus justification by faith. Yet since "in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love , (Galatians 5:6) then works justify a person as to whether he is a true believer or not, with true believers being the doers of the Law in seeking to fulfill the righteousness of it, its true and full tent, by yielding to the Spirit of Christ in accordance with His wholly inspired word, with Scripture being the supreme express substantive standard .
The Law of Moses is purely external; one could obey it and still be filled with hate.
That is simply not true, but serves your purpose of trying to restrict justification by the Law to circumcision and or just ceremonial aspects, and create justification by moral Law-keeping, which is nowhere presented as an alternative here, which instead is justification by faith, which in turn effects obedience under the new covenant, thus jusdtfying one a being a believer.
5:13 For you were called for freedom, brothers. But do not use this freedom as an opportunity for the flesh; rather, serve one another through love. 14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one statement, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (The "law" here means the moral law rather than the Mosaic Law; loving one's neighbor does not require circumcision.)
That is an imposed artificial distinction that is not in the text. Instead, as shown, Paul is attacking justification under the Law since it requirse keeping all/the whole law, which man does not do, let alone the Judaizers:
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. (Galatians 3:10-12)
The end.
Traditions of men mean nothing in God’s economy and do not impress Him.
And those born of His Spirit WILL do His will.
It’s in their nature to do so and is the natrual outworking of new life in Christ.
Yes, that statement.
So far you have posted an opinion, not a fact. If it’s a fact, proce it.
Luke 18:9-14 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
You know the old saying about the assembling of similar avian creatures into large groups.
saying a Catholic is Christian just shows your ignorance! Thanks for doing that for me! Just for the record, I was born into a Baptist household, one brother is a Baptist minister, there is nothing you can tell me about protestants that I don’t already know.
In other words, I don’t really care what you think about anything, since you know nothing about what you’re discussing, and you are right, I don’t care what kind of day you have! I am dismissing you, and I sincerely hope to never see a post from you again, as I can guarantee that you will see none of mine on Protestant posts.
You might try to find a new hobby, other than harassing fellow Christians.
From what I've read in the Book Rome assembled for us; so long ago; taint NONE been shuffled off to their final reward just yet...
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Haven't you noticed?
These kind words have about the same effect on PROT Freepers as...
RACIST!
Weather denier!!
Woman hater!!!
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