Posted on 06/08/2018 8:54:57 AM PDT by Salvation
Sadly, most true, born again Christians don’t even understand it, even those like me, who at one time didn’t understand it either, and I am heavy into YOPIOS. 😁 Peter, VERY MUCH wanted the people to UNDERSTAND the scriptures. All Peter meant when he said it, was that no man, with two functioning brain cells, ever came along, and decided, all by himself, that he was going to take it upon himself, to write scripture. No way, no how. Scripture was inspired by God. If it was written, and not inspired by God, like the Book of Mormon, for instance, then it was NOT scripture. That goes for Buddha, Confucius, Mary Baker Eddy, Mohammed, and any other, among many false prophets.
To say that Peter was telling the people they could not interpret and understand scripture, is a misinterpretation of what he was actually saying. He very much wanted them to understand it.
My next point would be, if Roman Catholics actually believe this misinterpretation of what Peter actually said, why do many of them keep posting scripture on these threads, and give interpretations of it? They constantly engage in YOPIOS, which I always do, of course. 👍 I hope some dude doesn’t come on here, and try to tell me, that he is not interpreting scripture, he is just reading it, and telling me what it says. He will hear a loud cacophony of booing. 😁😇
BUT YOU'VE YET TO PRODUCE ONE WET INFANT
Hey bro. I WAS a wet infant. My parents had me baptized (Sprinkled) into the Catholic Church, when I was an infant. The fact that I realized later, that I was a lost, unsaved, hell bound sinner, attests to the fact, that baptism didn’t take away ANY sins whatsoever. If I had died when I was a Roman Catholic, I would have gone straight to Hell. Now that I am an ex catholic, and I am heavy into YOPIOS, I understand the plan of salvation, perfectly, something I was completely blind to, when I was in the “one true church.”
Let me offer an opinion (only an opinion) I think the vast majority of people who wake up in the flames of Hell, 🔥 will be shocked. They had no idea they were going to Hell, and never expected to go there. I look at people all the time. None of them look like they are fearful of Hell, because they are oblivious to their lost, Hell bound condition. When they die, they will be in a world of hurt. 👎 Of course, I don’t know what percentage of people will go to Hell, but my OWN guess, is about 97%
Do NOT accuse anyone of lying.
Study guidelines for posting on the Religion Forum at my profile page BEFORE you post again on the RF.
“Giving us free will makes things interesting.”
Chapter and verse, please.
According to the Bible (check Romans 6) we are slaves to sin. Where do people get the idea that the will is exempt from that?
Don’t confuse the ability to make choices with free will. Those choices will be made with a will which has been corrupted by sin and is therefore not free.
Even Christians still battle with the old sin nature, however much we would wish otherwise.
metmom, I’ve included you here as I’ve seen from your posts that you also question the idea of free will.
+1. Truly an irrelevant question if there ever was one. In the past, I remember another irrelevant question, about a table of contents in the Bible. I, for one, don’t give a rat’s you know what, about stuff like that. 👎🇵🇭
That is a truism sir. I am embarrassed to admit that I was once a part of it.
Paging ex Catholics. 😁👍
I wouldn’t equate God’s family with an earthly family. Stick to the scriptures where Christ says, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” Otherwise, you’ll have a poor sense of the love of God and what your salvation means to Him and to you.
The angels rejoice over one sinner coming to God.
And Scripture also speaks of children not having done good or evil before they were born, (Romans 9:11) and of a times when a "child shall know to refuse the evil" (Isaiah 7:16) thus such cannot be culpable for sin before that time. Meaning "all have sinned" refers to those who are accountable beings, not infants at conception or before they are able to know right from wrong and choose btwn the two.
But at least here you are attempting to deal with a doctrinal issue based on what Scripture says, rather than appeal to mysticism in lieu of Scriptural substantiation.
Which was not by baptizing them, which He could have done if that was how they were to be brought to Him, but it was by physically bringing them to Him to lay hands on them to be blessed. (Matthew 19:
And presenting infants to the Lord in dedicating them is what is Scriptural. (1 Samuel 1:25) Joseph and Mary did so, ad Simeon "took he him up in his arms, and blessed God..." (Luke 2:28) And the sacrifice offered as part of this was for the women to "make an atonement for her; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood." (Leviticus 12:7) not the infant. 14)
The fact is, the Bible gives us no way of bringing anyone to Jesus apart from baptism.
Once again your "fact" is fallacious, for baptism is nowhere shown to be how infants are brought to Christ as you assert, and instead wholehearted repentant faith is the stated requirements for baptism, (Acts 2:38; 8:36,37) which infants need and cannot provide.
In addition, it is faith which baptism requires and expresses which appropriates forgiveness in the washing of regeneration, as Peter makes clear.
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. (Acts 10:43-44)
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? (Acts 10:47)
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. (Acts 15:7-9)
Which account is interpretive of Acts 2:38, in which the promise is made of the washing of regeneration if they will be baptized in repentant faith, since baptism testifies to that faith.
For such convicted and contrite souls to be baptized was to believe,which is what effects purifying of the heart, likewise for the paralytic in Mark 2 to be forgiven was to walk, with the command to walk being used for "be forgiven," since the latter effects the former, and in that order.
Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. (Mark 2:9-11)
It is not the action that effects the forgiveness, but the latter effects the action and testifies to forgiveness, and thus as in Acts 2:38 a promise of forgiveness can be made if one will do the action, which requires faith.
Actually there are substantial irreconcilable differences . .
I’m not taking sides, just wondering why you single out the Catholics?
Because they are the ones usually posting about their church, and as here, attacking Prots, and Rome is the most manifest deformation of the NT church , and more so than the Orthodox. But who also attack each other.
LOL!!!!!!
Thanks.
*will* we have.
*free*? Not so much.
“Hey bro. I WAS a wet infant”
Yes, but you were not in the NT. :-)
Denying the existence of God given free will is your choice, but my guess is that choice is probably not solely your own original idea.
To me, human free will is a major underlying theme of the Bible and taming our will, often through sacrifice and fasting, for two examples, is one of our major challenges, if not the major challenge, on the path to Heaven.
An example of free will is how Jesus never stops knocking at our door, but we have to choose to open it.
He never forces you or makes you do anything. You can resist Him until the end, if you want to. You can even take your own life in spite of His pleading with you. All your choice thanks to free will.
If there is no free will, then what is the point of life for either our Creator or for us, His Creation?
Free will is found in that pause between stimulus and response where we get to choose what our response will be.
It is in that moment between stimulus and response that our destiny is decided, choice by choice.
Our free will is one of the incredible powers that our Creator gave us, along with the power to transform our thoughts into physical reality, that we often seem to take for granted.
Shake that off. Life’s too short for that, and Satan is far too tricky to not take advantage of such opportunities.
Is it Jesus?
Is it His Holy Spirit?
Is it the Father?
Is it Mother Mary or Saint Michael?
Who or what is is getting you to divide into groups and fight with each other, turning potential friends into irreconcilable enemies???
Who wins when you fight with each other about the God of Peace?
Moreover, what are the historical results over time of your fighting?
Still just the one Jesus, right? But now how many churches, faiths, denominations, etc. have we sliced and diced Him into?
In His Name, is any of this His idea? Does He want us at each other like this?
Rhetorically speaking, do you ever stop and ask your self stuff like that?
I’m slowly learning to, with both religion and politics, but it’s not easy.
Satan’s malware is all over my programming, but doing stuff like the above is helping me to spot it before it activates.
Regarding “falling from Grace” true or false, or whether or not I, too, am saved... still working on it.
My general opinion after reading the material has been that, the Father will let us go, giving us over to our own delusions if we’re stubborn enough about our truth outranking His.
Jesus, on the other hand, never stops knocking on our door. He never gives up on us, no matter what we’re doing wrong.
The Trinitarian thing gets confusing.
I am the true son of my father, I am a quipster.
Having said that, I don’t quite understand portions of your response. I understand by grace alone are we saved. You then said, “by FAITH (trust, belief in, and continual adherence to_-and this is not from yourselves, it is a GIFT (underserved, unearned favor of God, not by WORKS (effort to achieve God’s acceptance), so that no one can boast ‘. Your quotation is wrong. It does not remotely approach Eph 2:5; it more closely resembles Eph 2:8 but that starts out “for by grace you have been saved through faith.” (RSV 1946) In that same chapter, verse 10, it states: “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.) So I am unsure of the point you are making.
And what about all the passages in the Bible indicating we will be judged by our deeds on the day of Judgment?
See, e.g., 8 Kgs 39 “You who alone know the hearts of all men, render to each one of them according to his conduct… .”
Jer 17:10 “I, the Lord, alone probe the mind and test the heard to reward everyone according to his ways, according to the merit of his deeds.”
Jn 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will come out, those who have done good deeds to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation.”
Mt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.”
And of course, Mt 25:31ff (the sheep and the goats)
Rom 2:6 God “will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.” See also v. 10.
2 Cor 5:10 “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive recompense, according to what he did in the body, whether good or evil.”
See also Ps 18:21-25.
Prv 10: 2(virtue saves from death) 12 (love covers all offenses) 11: 4 (virtue saves from death)
I sense part of the problem is “reading the material”. What material??? There is a lot of garbage out there these days about people sprewing out fake and phony doctrine. While this might sound a bit harsh, I would refer people to the Apostle Paul who, in 2 Timothy warns us about such things.
I would suggest reading and understanding the book of John. John tells us he wrote “these things” so that you might believe in the Son of God and believing you might have life. I can think of no better author.
Still not sure which or whose version of the Bible to read, but that’s the source I was referring to regarding my confusion about the Father and the Son.
It’s taken me a while to separate them in the OT as the Trinitarian identities confuse me.
As an aside, I think Jesus has a tough job, the hardest that’s ever been, and, from an engineering standpoint, I sometimes wonder about the functional purpose of Satan in the Grand Plan, given how he roams about everywhere, but has to ask permission to harm us.
The Grand Plan is so intricate and so interwoven and all flowing along in perpetual motion as his Laws and creations interact and balance that I can’t stop thinking about it and its Creator.
I tend to confuse myself fairly easily when in that zone. Thanks for the help!
Jesus told Phillip (John 14) that if he had seen Jesus he had seen The Father, for He is in The Father and The Father is in Him. All a human can see of The Father is where The Father intersects our spacetime limits well. God told us before Jesus was made flesh and dwelt among us that the name for Jesus is God with us, ‘Emanuel’.
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