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Peter as rock
Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 05-30-18 | Msgr, Charles Pope

Posted on 06/02/2018 6:34:56 AM PDT by Salvation

Peter as rock

Question: A Protestant told me recently that Peter can’t be the rock since Jesus is described as the rock and cornerstone of the Church, and he showed me a couple of places where Jesus is described as the cornerstone and even a stumbling block to unbelievers. Is there an answer for this? Allen Desome, Washington, D.C.

Answer: Of course Jesus, Peter and others who are called “rock” or stone are not literally chunks of stone. What we have in such attestations is the application of a metaphor. Scripture, like any lengthy document uses many metaphors, similes and analogies. Such things can be true in different ways.

In the Scriptures we see that Peter is called “the rock” by Jesus (Mt 16:18). Jesus is also called a stone (1 Pt 2:6). And the apostles and prophets are called foundation stones and Jesus as the cornerstone (Eph 2:20). The Book of Revelation describes the Twelve Apostles as foundation stones (Rev 21:14). So there are a number of “stone” references that need not be mutually exclusive.

Jesus is the deepest and surest foundation of the Church. That the Apostles, prophets and, in a special way, Peter are rock is understood in a subordinate sense. That is, they are rock and foundation for the Church on account of the grace and support of Jesus.

The Protestant to whom you refer fails to see the context and metaphorical sense of the texts and terms. He also fails to see that Jesus, while not abandoning his Church as her true head and foundation, does assign Peter a unique status to be the visible and identifiable rock on which the Church will be built. Peter (and his successors) is the rock, but he does not stand in midair. He is supported by Christ and his grace and affirmed by him as the visible rock and head of the Church. The Protestant approach is to see the Church as invisible. But Jesus did not establish an invisible Church. It is visible and with a visible rock and head: Peter and his successors.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: apostolic; catholic; catholicchurch; firstpope; kephas; papacy; petros; pope; saintpeter; stpeter; succession; therock; vicarofchrist; vicarofchristonearth
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To: Elsie; metmom; MHGinTN; Fantasywriter
Simon is the shortened name of Simeon, one of Jacob (renamed Israel by God) ben Isaac's twelve sons (Gen. 29:33). Albert Barnes idicates that the nane means שׁמעין shı̂m‛ôn, Shim‘on, "hearing, answer."
Of this very popular Simeon/Simon personal given name, how many New Testament individuals bear it?

======== list of the Simeon/Simons in the New Testament =========

o Simon bar Jona, disciple/apostle of Jesus the Nazarean: Mt. 4:18, 10:2~, 16:16*, 16:17**; Mk. 1:16, 1:29, 1:30, 3:16~, 14:37; Lk. 4:38, 5:3, 5:4, 5:5, 5:8*, 5:10, 6:14~, 22:312x, 24:34; Jn. 1:40*, 12:41, 1:42**, 6:8*,6:68*, 13:6*, 13:9*, 13:24* , 13:36*, 18:10*, 18:15*, 18:25*, 20:2*, 20:6*, 21:2*, 21:3*, 21:7*, 21:11, 21:15*, 21:15**, 21:16**, 21:17**; Ac. 10:18, 10:32~, 11:13~, 15:14Simeon; 2 Pet. 1:1*
o Simon the Canaanite, called Zelotes: Mt. 10:4, Mk. 3:18, Lk. 6:15, Ac. 1:13
o Simon, son of Joseph the carpenter, son pf Mary, brother of Jesus: Mt. 13:55, Mk. 6:3
o Simon the leper: Mt. 26:6, Mk. 14:3
o Simon of Cyrene: Mt. 27:2, Mk. 15:21, Lk. 23:26,

o Simeon the aged prophet: Lk. 2:25, 2:34
o Simeon, an ancestor of Mary: Lk. 3:30
o Simon the Pharisee: Lk. 7:40, 7:43, 7:44
o Simon the father of Judas Iscariot: Jn. 6:71, 12:4, 13:2, 13:26
o Simon of Samaria, the sorcerer: Ac. 8:9, 8:13, 8:24
o Simon of Joppa, a tanner: Ac. 9:43, 10:5, 10:6, 10:17, 10:32,
o Simeon called Niger: Ac 13:1

-------
Notes:
~ = the phrases "Simon called Peter" or "Simon, named Peter"
* = indicates the doubled name "Simon Peter"
** = the patronymic phrase "Simon bar Jona"<
br>

======== end of list of the Simeon/Simons in the New Testament =========

Some of the comments I wish to make on this will probably be anticipated by the savvy reviewers of the list. But I would make some points worth evaluating:

-- Among the Jewish culture, the name Simon or Simeon apparently is very common.

-- There are 12 Sim(e)ons mentioned in the NT, and 9 of them are alive in Jesus' and Simon Peter's time.

-- Note that I was forced to use "Peter" to distinguish him from the others even in the above sentence.

-- Of particular interest is that in the Acts 15 church council, the ruling elder James did not call Simon by the alternate distiguishing name "Peter," but called him by his name Simeon, distinguishing him from all other Simons by denoting that Simon Peter had preached to them on a particular topic.

-- Reading the above, one sees that Jesus addressed Simon as "Peter" only once or twice, and that was to give him the unique identifier in the community where there was already one other Simon. But in speaking directly to Simon-the-brother-of-Andrew, where a third identifier is unnecessary, Jesus called him by his true name "Simon" or by the honorific patronymic title "Simon bar Jona."

-- The doubled identifying name "Simon Peter" was used once by Matthew, once by Luke, and once by Simon bar Jona of himself, but 15 times by John in his Gospel.

-- The alternate identifier, which by virtue of it almost unknown and unused Aramaic noun "Kefa" and equivalenty unused identifier "Peter" (masculine form) for humans, was used in either of the forms Kephas or Petros about 170 times, but never for any other object or person. Being thus unique, it was a convenient shorthand verbal flag with which to speak about Simon bar Jona to other people, or to write about him.

-- Nowhere in the NT is there any intimation that explicitly it was an estimate of Simon bar Jona as to possessing reliable, steady, mature handling of difficult situations, and unquestionable leadership traits. In fact, it is quite obvious that his behavior was quite power-seeking, selfish, unreliable, divisive, and even Satanically influenced, quite obviously opposite to what one might expect if the sobriquet was meant to describe desirable character attributes.

So, then, what I say is that the word "Kepha" or "Petros" was meant merely as an identifying tag by which to distinguish any communication that was about him or with him, not from which to draw any beneficial character qualities.

And therefore, this opinion is quite consistent with Scripture throughout.

The name "Peter" is just simply a convenient and uniquely irreproducible tag assigned by the foreknowing Master to distinguish him from all other Simon/Simeons favored with that identity. No more, no less.

(Presented for your perusal and criticism -- imardmd)

401 posted on 06/10/2018 1:23:29 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: imardmd1

Very interesting.


402 posted on 06/10/2018 1:41:12 AM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith......)
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To: imardmd1

Great research!


403 posted on 06/10/2018 4:41:37 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie; metmom; MHGinTN; Fantasywriter
God's way of defining Simons

=============

There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, a devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him,

"Cornelius."

And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said,

"What is it, Lord?"

And he said unto him,

"Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter: he lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do."

And when the angelmessenger which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually; and when he had declared all these things unto them, he sent them to Joppa.On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peterthe right Simon went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: . . .

Now while Peterthe right Simon doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's (the tanner) house, and stood before the gate, and called, and asked whether Simon (the evangelist), which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.

While Peterthe right Simon thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him,

"Behold, three men seek thee. Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them."

Then Peterthe right Simon went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said,

"Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?"

And they said,

"Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee."

(Acts 10:1-9, 17-22)

404 posted on 06/10/2018 5:13:30 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: imardmd1
Simon, whose surname is Peter:

And we still often call people by their last names when there's the possibility of confusion about who we mean.

So Donald Trump becomes just Trump.

405 posted on 06/10/2018 6:28:14 AM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith......)
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To: metmom; Elsie; Fantasywriter; MHGinTN
And we still often call people by their last names when there's the possibility of confusion about who we mean.

So Donald Trump becomes just Trump. Well, sorta, but Trumps' sobriquet/nickname/pet name is "The Donald"; not his family name which is the patronymic.

The KJV translators would probably not have used "sobriquet" or "patronymic" even if they knew about them. So it is the job of the expositor to sort out the difference for the lay person. Eh?

Looking at what "Petros" would have meant to the Hellenized Jew, or what the Anglicized transliteration "Peter" meant to the KJV translators, here is some relevant information:

========

Definition of surname

1 : an added name derived from occupation or other circumstance : nickname 1

2 : the name borne in common by members of a family

----------

Definition of sobriquet

: a descriptive name or epithet : nickname

-----------

Synonyms for nicknames

epithet
moniker
sobriquet
style
tag
appellation
byname
byword
denomination
diminutive
handle
label
familiar name
pet name
-----------

From Merriam-Webster site:

This synonym of nickname has the same meaning in modern French as it does in English. In Middle French, however, its earlier incarnation soubriquet referred to both a nickname and a tap under the chin. Centuries later, the connection between these two meanings isn't clear, but what is clear is that the "nickname" meaning of sobriquet was well established in French by the time English speakers borrowed the term in the mid-17th century - and was the only meaning that was adopted. In current English, the spelling sobriquet is most common, but soubriquet is also an accepted variant.

-----------

It is clear that for the 16th to 17th century translator (Tyndale and the KJV translators) the word sobriquet was not in the English vocabulary, and "byname" is equivalent to "surname." In the context, "surname"is the reasonable, perhaps only, choice for the translators. However, since it is ambiguous, having two meanings, context shows that "bar Jona" fits the family association meaning of "surname", while "Petros/Peter" is a nickname, now known as a sobriquet. You will see that in writing, I ysed the equivalent non-family, non-occupational, non-reputational terms "label" and "tag" as equivalent to sobriquet, which is the correct term to apply to the byname "Peter."

406 posted on 06/10/2018 10:50:59 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: MHGinTN; metmom; aMorePerfectUnion; imardmd1; ealgeone; Iscool; boatbums; Luircin

.
The Renewed Covenant is the only covenant there ever was, renewed in sinless blood, and written on the hearts of Yeshua’s bride.

If its not written on your heart, you obviously are not his!
.


407 posted on 06/10/2018 11:43:11 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: metmom

.
>> “The Pharisees kept the Law and yet Jesus continually condemned them.” <<

Obviously false!

The Pharisees kept only their own false law of Takanot and Ma’assim.

This is what Yeshua revealed to us through the synoptic gospels, as they were first written in the only language used by Yehova. (Hebrew)

The Greek translations thereof were somewhat twisted, since they were made by the same Pharisees that nullified Yehova’s laws in favor of their own.
.


408 posted on 06/10/2018 11:50:28 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: MHGinTN

.
Your “Jesus” is not always Yehova’s only begotten Son Yeshua!

To put it as Nehemia Gordon did in his book: the Greek Jesus is not the Hebrew Yeshua.

You play with fire!


409 posted on 06/10/2018 11:55:15 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: imardmd1

.
>> “The name ‘Peter’ is just simply a convenient and uniquely irreproducible tag assigned by the foreknowing Master to distinguish him from all other Simon/Simeons favored with that identity. No more, no less.” <<

It also identifies one of Simon’s personality traits. He was clearly impulsive and stubborn, thus equated to a hard pebble.
.


410 posted on 06/10/2018 12:02:58 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: metmom

.
You posted scripture, aluding in your post that they supported your assertions.

They clearly did not.

That is why I used the word “twisted.”
.


411 posted on 06/10/2018 12:07:49 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

Truth appears twisted to the deceived.

Deception happens when you follow false prophets like Rood and his ilk.

Try reading Scripture for what it actually says, not through the Rood lens.


412 posted on 06/10/2018 12:33:14 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith......)
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To: metmom
Posted #406 too quickly. Correction:

And we still often call people by their last names when there's the possibility of confusion about who we mean.

So Donald Trump becomes just Trump.

Well, sorta, but Trumps' sobriquet/nickname/pet name is "The Donald"; not his family name which is the patronymic.

(etc)

413 posted on 06/10/2018 12:36:30 PM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: editor-surveyor

That’s just your assumption, a figurative ascription not supported by the lexicographers. You do not know the limitations of your expertise. Kepha has no figurative meaning associated with it.


414 posted on 06/10/2018 12:44:59 PM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: imardmd1

.
Thou fool!

That’s what you get for relying on the Greek club.

Petros has many figurative meanings, and that is the noun most used.


415 posted on 06/10/2018 3:03:35 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: metmom

Truth never appears twisted in Yehova’s word due to the vast interlinkage of all scripture.

Who knows what your erroneous view contains.

(YMMV)

Your doing battle with your immaginary “Rood” figurine has left you painted into the adversary’s corner.
.


416 posted on 06/10/2018 3:08:52 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

Really, you just message me out of nowhere condemning me to Hell?

Look, I’m going to believe what Scripture ACTUALLY says, not some contorted version that insists that “not by works of the law” means “definitely by works of the law.”

Heck, if we’re to believe your insistence that the original language is Hebrew, Paul makes it even MORE clear that salvation is NOT by works of the Torah.


417 posted on 06/10/2018 3:10:34 PM PDT by Luircin
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To: editor-surveyor

Really, you just message me out of nowhere condemning me to Hell?

Look, I’m going to believe what Scripture ACTUALLY says, not some contorted version that insists that “not by works of the law” means “definitely by works of the law.”

Heck, if we’re to believe your insistence that the original language is Hebrew, Paul makes it even MORE clear that salvation is NOT by works of the Torah.


418 posted on 06/10/2018 3:10:36 PM PDT by Luircin
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To: Luircin

.
>> “Really, you just message me out of nowhere condemning me to Hell?” <<

Wow what an imagination! - What are you talking about?
.


419 posted on 06/10/2018 3:20:24 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

Lay off, ed. That’s all I’m gonna say.


420 posted on 06/10/2018 3:30:59 PM PDT by Luircin
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