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1 posted on 05/26/2018 7:00:33 AM PDT by tiredofallofit
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To: tiredofallofit

God is outside time. He sees all at once whether or not we will choose His will or our own, without causing it. To think God dictates who will choose rebellion because He knows the outcome is to deny His extremely great gift of freedom by which He wants to give us His divinity as much as we the adopted are able to receive it. The situation has been likened to God being the Author of a story in which He writes all the characters and knows what they will do. But the added mystery is that He enters the story Himself as a character, Jesus.


2 posted on 05/26/2018 7:13:38 AM PDT by CharlesOConnell (CharlesOConnell)
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To: tiredofallofit

Judging by other articles at the site, Robert Messner appears to be another hypocrite liberal trolling Christianity in order to further his book sales.


3 posted on 05/26/2018 7:16:28 AM PDT by ecomcon
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To: tiredofallofit

God knows that all will fail to be perfect. We know it too. No one ever claims that they are perfect and deserve heaven. They only declare that they are “good” and that God needs to cut them some slack.

It is our nature. I have read the Institutes and am familiar with that section. By knowing that all will fall short and be condemned, God does effectively predestine all to go to hell except for those who he chooses to rescue by predestining that they go to heaven.

I will remain Calvinist. It is the only consistent theology. And if I am wrong, well, I was “good” and God will certainly cut me some slack.

But you know what? If the non-Calvinist is wrong, it doesn’t matter either since God will still predestine that they will go one way or the other upon death. The good news is that another very important doctrine of Calvinism is that a person can only be concerned about this if their heart is regenerated and that means that they were predestined to salvation.

So, when an Arminian is preaching about the evils of Calvinism because he cares about Jesus and the souls of the world, well he can care because God chose for him to care.

The only practical difference between Calvinism and the alternative in the earthly life of a Christian is that the Calvinist understands why it is ok to stop evangelizing to a person who cannot hear.

And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town. (Matt 10:14 ESV)


4 posted on 05/26/2018 7:17:51 AM PDT by Bryanw92 (Asking a pro athlete for political advice is like asking a cavalry horse for tactical advice.)
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To: tiredofallofit

Why would God Predestine some to Heaven, others to Hell, when God gave Adam and Eve “free will” to either obey or disobey His request not to eat the fruit of a given tree?

We all have the opportunity to love God and keep His Commandments. We can be forgiven our sins in Baptism and Confession as God is merciful. God iS love and HE wants us to LOVE Him and our neighbors.


5 posted on 05/26/2018 7:19:04 AM PDT by ADSUM
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To: tiredofallofit
Most of my friends who call themselves Calvinists are eager to disassociate themselves from the doctrine of “double predestination”.

Then they aren't Calvinists. If God is not sovereign in every event and eventuality in the universe he isn't God. And that isn't an exclusive position of Calvinism. That is a position of theists whether you're a Jew, Christian or Muslim.

Sproul said it best when he asserted "There are no maverick molecules in the universe".

Recently was reading Isaiah 10. The text there speaks of Assyria being the instrument of punishment on a rebellious and idolatrous Israel. Yet it is clear that Assyria is doing what it WANTS to do in attacking Yahweh's chosen people. God is not forcing Assyria to act wickedly...Assyria is doing what Assyrians do.

Likewise when God pronounced judgement on David in 2 Samuel 12 for his sin with Bathsheba--in the ensuing chapters we see the rebellion of his sons Amnon and especially Absalom. Yahweh is letting sin run its course, not violating the wills of either of these bad men.

And so all of us who are saved are done so by grace. In ourselves we are wicked. Only God's mercy can rescue us from our evil ways.

8 posted on 05/26/2018 7:36:35 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: tiredofallofit

The idea of predestination flies in the face of the scriptures, in context. It also flies in the face of a righteous, holy, merciful God. It smacks of arbitrariness.

God’s promises to salvation/forgiveness/new birth are given and stated without reservation or limitation and are rock-solid promises that a Holy and Righteous God must and does answer.


14 posted on 05/26/2018 7:50:49 AM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: tiredofallofit
The obvious answer to Calvin and those who follow his evil theology of predestination is Why even try? If God has predestined my salvation, then I can go about and be a libertine. Both ideas run counter to the message of the Gospel. Its a lazy man's approach to the Gospel, and I dare say, has led to the downfall of many a poor sinner unnecessarily.
15 posted on 05/26/2018 7:53:53 AM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: tiredofallofit

God Wills that all come to Him.

He knows they all will not.

Jesus did not come to save people already destined to be saved.

Calvin is an idiot.


17 posted on 05/26/2018 8:02:54 AM PDT by ConservativeMind (Trump: Befuddling Democrats, Republicans, and the Media for the benefit of the US and all mankind.)
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To: tiredofallofit

http://evangelicalarminians.org/


21 posted on 05/26/2018 8:05:25 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools)
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To: tiredofallofit

The term “predestine” is not the correct word for the idea or at least our understanding of it’s meaning.

The “idea” of predestination” is really quite simple, and easy to understand.

God is all knowing.

He KNOWS, before you are born, whether you are going to heaven or hell.

He does not CAUSE (determine) it, you do.

Catholic, Protestant, or Calvinist, it doesn’t matter. God knows EVERYTHING.

“Fate” is a concept that only God really understands.

https://www.allaboutgod.com/omniscience-of-god.htm

“As believers our future is secure. Not because we know what lies ahead, but because God knows.”


24 posted on 05/26/2018 8:09:05 AM PDT by faucetman (Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: tiredofallofit

While Luther argued in favor of free will, Calvin always said that was nonsense

Just because a man says something about God doesn’t make it so


27 posted on 05/26/2018 8:12:37 AM PDT by Nifster (I see puppy dogs in the clouds)
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To: tiredofallofit

“But there are some of you that believe not: for Jesus knew from the beginning, which they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of my Father. “


28 posted on 05/26/2018 8:15:06 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: tiredofallofit

Maybe someday I’ll meet a 5 pointer who thinks their spouse or one of their kids isn’t one of the select.


63 posted on 05/26/2018 10:44:53 AM PDT by fungoking (Tis a pleasure to live in the 0zarks)
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To: tiredofallofit
The Babylon Bee has a lit of fun with Calvinist:
http://babylonbee.com/?s=Calvin

Calvinist Dog Corrects Owner: ‘No One Is A Good Boy’
Calvinist Nods Stoically After Being Ambushed By Surprise Party
Santa Claus Converts To Calvinism, Moves Everybody To Naughty List
New Calvinist Baskin-Robbins Offers Customers One Preselected Flavor To Choose From
Calvinist Health Insurance Company Declares All Conditions Pre-Existing

67 posted on 05/26/2018 10:59:42 AM PDT by fungoking (Tis a pleasure to live in the 0zarks)
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To: tiredofallofit

Sturgeon was a great Calvinist preacher. He didn’t believe in double predestination. Calvin also believes in common grace.

Calvinists who believe in double predestination are rightfully called hyper-Calvinists. IOW, they out Calvin Calvin.


98 posted on 05/26/2018 2:05:35 PM PDT by WASCWatch
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To: tiredofallofit

“All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death.” This sound very much like the koran where allah says everybody is going to hell. It doesn’t sound like the God I worship.


103 posted on 05/26/2018 2:44:13 PM PDT by jmaroneps37 (Conservatism is truth. Liberalism is lies.)
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To: tiredofallofit
What else did the author disagree in the Institutes? Regeneration is through repentance? Bearing our cross? Justified by faith? Prayer is the chief executor of faith? Election? I find that people who like to post such things have never read the Institutes. They simply want to complain about Calvin.

Failure to understand election and predestination is simply to fail to understand God's mercy and grace. As Calvin states:

If this makes no sense then I would recall that God "hated Esau, but Jacob He loved".

As far as "double predestination" goes, Calvin gives us this warning about such a doctrine in the same chapter:

Predestination and election are important doctrines but Calvin cautions us not to go too deep into this rabbit hole. Why does God love Jacob but hate Esau? How can an impartial God love one but hate another? We can't say but we know that it is true because it is revealed to us in scripture. Calvin only reported the mysteries that are in scripture. Whether one wants to deny those mysteries is entirely up to them.

127 posted on 05/26/2018 6:18:20 PM PDT by HarleyD ("There are very few shades of grey."-Dr. Eckleburg)
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