Posted on 04/22/2018 11:48:52 AM PDT by Hostage
I don’t involve myself in his affairs unless he asks first. But definitely, if he talks about it and asks, I am going to tell him to look at the school counselor angle and tell him to be careful.
For those peeking in, a school counselor might be a good solution because he/she is employed by the government and should have similar authority to keep things from going into hysterics such as with a CPS investigation.
The school counselor is also approachable by parents to discuss a variety of matters about their child. So in this case, if the father makes an appointment with the school counselor, and talks about ‘potential’ problems of the mother and her boyfriend, the school counselor can call the child in and document what’s going on which can then be used by the parent (father in this case) to get a temporary restraining order. The school counselor’s report can serve as probable cause for the TRO.
One question is whether the school counselor can know the child is safe with the parent in the home where no abuse is taking place. I think the answer should be yes. The school counselor can ask the child directly if they feel everything is good at home, safety, comfort, etc. If the child says yes, the school counselor can write that in the report recommending the child stay with the non-abusing parent pending the outcome of the court case
The thing to be careful for is to confirm the school counselor is not mandated to call CPS at the moment a child abuse incident is alleged. The school counselor is a government position and one would think he/she should have authority to write a report which recommends where the child stays until the court hears the case.
This might work.
> “ the son will or should have learned respect for his father as he gets older.”
Without question.
If they are licensed by the state they have to report to the state.
Not sure how that could have escaped your attention.
He needs a lawyer. A lawyer is the one official who has no duty to report once he is hired.
He also needs to realize that by his NOT reporting he is putting his son and himself in jeopardy.
"So you knew the boyfriend was abusing your son and did nothing to protect him?" Will be the question and "I was afraid of the system" will not be considered a good answer.
Tell the father to get a voice activated tape recorder that the son can place in his room or in the house so when the abuse happens again, there would be a record of it.
Covered in links in #58 above.
I asked him something similar to this before. He said one has to be careful to record people without their consent.
Leaving a voice message is considered consent.
A witness listening in during an ongoing call can testify but it would be good for the caller to tell the abuser they are on the phone with someone who can hear. A child may not understand to do this.
I was shocked to hear a parent can actually go to jail for recording someone without consent. But now I am used to it.
Why would CPS put the boy in a foster home when he has a perfectly good home with his father?
I am told they treat all parties as suspects.
Apparently, all sorts of lies run rampant in the family court system and no one is taken at face value until things get sorted out.
While the sorting gets done, the child gets the shaft.
That’s why this father is afraid to have CPS involved. They shoot first and ask questions later.
Sounds like he wants to eat his cake and have it too. He wants to use if for the state but not let them know his kid is being abused? He's dealing with court, he should use a lawyer. As for wanting to avoid "heightened conflict", that ship has already sailed. He should be more concerned with winning the conflict, not avoiding it, if his son is being abused. Ultimately that will mean CPS being involved. He should bite the bullet and lawyer up and let the lawyer contact CPS.
BTW, there's nothing to stop his son from reporting the abuse to officials.
it is strange to think that a ‘Christian’ service has a duty to the state first before having a duty to a family in a Christian setting. This puzzles me.
It is the law in some states that obligates Christian counselors and pastors to report (MN is one). They will usually warn you up front about it.
If it is as bad as you describe, he should already have one.
Running away is not helping his son.
“Margaret Graf, legal counsel for the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles, told the participants that California is one of about 30 states with mandated reporting laws.
According to state law, mandated reporters are required to disclose to law enforcement or Child Protective Services whenever they, in their professional capacity, know of or observe a child they have a reasonable suspicion is the victim of abuse.
But there’s an exception. Clergy are not required to report knowledge of abuse if it was acquired during penitential communication, the law states, meaning the information was revealed when no other person was present and with the expectation that it would be kept in confidence.”
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-clergy-notebook-20170429-story.html
“The Pennsylvania law regarding mandated reporting enumerates clergy as mandated reporters, however, it does uphold clergy-penitent confidentiality privileges in pastoral communications (i.e. in counseling sessions and the confessional booth). Practically, this means that if a member of the clergy suspects a child is being abused he is mandated to report it, but if a member of his congregation confesses to abusing a child in a counseling session where a reasonable assumption of privacy is present, that clergy is not mandated by law to report what he/she has been told. Only clergy and attorney’s are granted this confidentiality exception to the law.”
http://www.pachurchesadvocacy.org/index_files/Page2894.htm
“Every state has a child abuse reporting law that requires persons designated as “mandatory reporters” to report known or reasonably suspected incidents of child abuse. As Table 1 (see page 4) illustrates, ministers are mandatory reporters in many states, but some states exempt them from the reporting obligation if they learned of the abuse in the course of a conversation protected by the clergy-penitent privilege.”
https://www.churchlawandtax.com/cltr/2015/may-june/child-abuse-reporting-and-clergy-privilege.html
FWIW, I’ve never heard of needing a SSN to report. For most professionals, if you suspect, you are legally required to report any information that might help in addressing the abuse.
The first thing he should is get an experienced ATTORNEY!!!!
Let the attorney devise a plan for evidence
I would absolutely NOT have him play amateur sleuth and not have him make his own plan to gather evidence.
A good Christian family law attorney will know exactly how to proceed. Been there, done that. I ended up with joint custody and a Rock solid Decree. I went through a lengthy jury trial and my ex-wife had a very high profile scumbag atty (2nd of 3 law firms). I “lost” the jury trial but the Judge did much to overturn in the Decree.
It may get costly but it needs to be done.
He was a Police Officer and the local Drug Cop, it set his career back by about 10 years, he made Sargent a couple years ago.
My experience and plan of action as well. There are few situations that bringing in the government can’t make worse.
In my dealing with numerous families, I’ve found “Family law” looks to neither law or families. It is automatically a adversarial approach. Even when one or more parties act in good faith, they are assumed to be criminals. I have also never found anything different in “Christian” counseling. They may have a fish on their shingle, but they have the same methodology and lack of privacy.
As far as I know, the only place to find true privileged communication is in the confessional with an ordained priest. I am not Catholic or Orthodox, but I have suggested that others take that route. Sometimes you just need a place where you can speak without fear of retribution.
Every educator, every medical professional, every social worker MUST report suspected abuse, it is mandatory,and the professional will lose his license, maybe even face prison if he does not. Undoubtedly, the counselor has already given the authorities what information he does have and the father has made a terrible terrible mistake by not cooperating with the counselor. I think it is possible he could be arrested for child endangerment, failure to report, misprison of a felony, and goodness knows what else. Given the perversity of our legal system, he could be the one with his parental rights terminated, and the mother and boyfriend receiving full custody. Your friend needs to hire good lawyer and provide the counselor with the requested info. His failure to do so puts him in a very bad light!
It seems wrong that a family may think they are establishing trust in a Christian environment but in reality it’s the state watching and recording. The Christian counselor acts as a state agent.
I know the legal argument regarding liability but the bigger picture is that legalism encroaches on the church.
The business model of Christian Counseling is fraudulent. It is an office of the state. And the personnel of the state are in these matters unimpressive and unaccountable.
To separate a child from a good parent while things get’sorted out’ is an act that protects the state from accountability. It does nothing to increase health. The state employees who think they are’saving’ a child do not know that they are in fact damaging the child because they do not have knowledge of the situation on the ground.
That’s the problem, the state Does not know
See #58 above.
The father is intelligent and knows the family court system more than most people.
Attorneys are valuable but very limited in family court. Without evidence, the outcome is a roll of the dice. The outcome can boomerang.
Family court is a different creature than other venues of law.
All the homespun advice “Get a Lawyer” are ‘nice words’ only.
Of course, he knows when he needs a lawyer.
But he knows the system well enough to seek admissible evidence first, then talk to lawyers.
Is a Christian counselor a local, state, federal, civil service employee?
Given that government statutes rule Christian businesses, i would think the trend is a government takeover is slowly in process.
And Americans seem to be asleep to it.
This is a relatively recent development in American history. If government employees were superior in knowledge to private Americans, that would be one thing. But in general, government employees are not top drawer, not even near it.
To ask that a moribund force like CPS takeover a childhood is a wrong step.
Americans can do much better. But first they need to grow up and realize their legislators have run amok allowing wisdom to be replaced by unaccountability.
Wisdom comes from the Bible which has been pushed aside by legalism, the rule of lawyers who are ultimately ruled by bankers.
Awareness of this truth is prerequisite to a social movement for bringing back wisdom. Bring the Bible back into American life and many social problems will dissolve including school shootings and the 50% divorce rate.
But as it stands, a Christian family may not even seek Christian Counseling without a fear of ignorant unaccountable state persons turning their lives into hell.
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