Posted on 04/17/2018 8:56:07 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Pastor Bill Randles has written about this extensively.
Just because there are false prophets in the church does not negate Paul's invocation that “all should be ambitious to prophesy”...
The real issue is these false prophets and false preachers, of whom Christ warned us would be the horrific sign of his Second Coming, these apostates are operating under the supernatural influence of familiar spirits.
This is why there is some accuracy in what they preach or prophesy in the N.A.R.
And if you reject the “Gifts” of the Spirit as being for today, then you will not believe the “gift of discernment of spirits” is also for today, and you will not be able to discern that these people are operating out of demonic familiar spirits and other counterfeits... in the church.
How does Christ expect us to discern and judge “doctrines of demons” and “seducing spirits” that we are told will be rife in these latter days?
Jesus expects that we will be equipped by the Holy Spirit with the full flourishing of spiritual weapons... the gifts of prophecy, interpretation of tongues, words of knowledge, etc., etc.
We need to understand that, as Peter preached and the Prophet Joel prophesied, in these latter days, “I will pour out my Spirit on my manservants and maidservants” giving us dreams and visions so that we can function in this modern and increasingly evil world.
Jesus taught that what the forefathers of the faith, the old testament prophets longed to see but did not live to experience... Was that God's gift of the Holy Spirit, Jesus living in us, is a better thing than all under the Old Covenant had of God.
What we have after Pentecost and after the Holy Spirit fell in the upper room with the Disciples and Mary, is what we are to expect to have today in terms of the Gifts, but we are to apply and function in these gifts as Bereans, never going “beyond what is written” in terms of our experiences or doctrinal traditions. For He is the same yesterday, today and forever.
And what comes with a Biblical outpouring of the gifts of the spirit is an increasing responsibility of discernment of doctrine of demons and other seducing spirits of the heresies of the Mormons, the NAR, Freemasonic Ecumenicalism, Cessationist dead churches, etc., etc.
Praise God!
P.S. Just imagine if Joseph Smith put the teachings of the supernatural beings that spoke to him to the test of Scripture.
By your standard, then, we should ignore Christ's words because the “canon of Scripture wasn't sealed?”
What?
Are you saying you believe Paul was only writing to the first century church, with no application for us? Then who was Christ talking to in the book of Revelation? And who was Christ referencing when He discussed in the book of John, how scripture was going to be written down?
If so, LOL. Then why would God bother with Pentecost at all?
Now, I agree with you wholeheartedly about excesses of supernatural experiences that “go beyond the Foundation that was already laid, with Christ as chief Cornerstone” and any prophesy that does not line up with the Word or is proven false in its spiritual origins... which is why John tells us:
“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world....” and then: “Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. “
We have a “better thing” than the OT Prophets and those who lived and died before the Cross and Pentecost.
This is that of which the prophet Joel spoke; and that which Paul warned us to be Bereans and to “test all things’.
If the gifts are not for today, there was really no reason for Jesus to go to the Father at the Ascension, now was there? But in the same manner as He cajoled and corrected the Disciples about the need for the Cross, He went to the Father so this better thing, His Holy Spirit, could be poured out on all mankind. And womenkind.
In power. Halleluia!
Someday these types of repartees(/s) will be done away with as it says in Jeriamiah 31...
” 33”But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34”They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”…”
We Christians have often made a blood sport of telling each other in a sense...”Know the Lord!” and we play the “Buddhist” game of “I know a secret” with each other. Yes there must be reproof and correction as per Timothy,but it is a fine line to know when such reproof crosses over into “judging”!
I am always astonished over accusations about the “unforgivable sin”, especially when those of a pejorative attitude use that as a cudgel on a questioning brother; when in context Jesus had been accused of doing good miracles by the power of Satan instead of by the power of the Holy Spirit. It was in that context that he issued his warnings concerning the offending of the Holy Spirit.
The Apostle Paul re-emphasizes Jeramiah 31 in Hebrews 8:9-11....repeating it verbatim thereby equating Jeremiah 31 with structural church doctrine and in how we should conduct business with each other! Hebrews 8 is a compare contrast study between the old covenant and the new covenant, between that which accuses and condemns and that which transforms us by the writing of God’s laws into our inward parts!
I had to look up Montanism to make sure I had the correct view of it and yes I understand your sense of danger. Old Montanus himself would go into strange flailings and convulsive states saying stuff that didn’t always bear up under scrutiny. The I looked at the behaviors of those of the Bible who uttered real prophecies...their behavious were rational often times pleading and they didn’t always deliver good news. Yet their prophecies were 100 per cent accurate! Always!
Now Mom...
...you KNOW that entire denominations/religions hinge on LESS than one verse...
AMEN!
Well; after a few cracked skulls; catchers were invented.
'Tis better to be safe than sorry!
We only UP to #57!!!
Give it time.
yup
Then his creation would be called Berean; instead of Mormon.
Then the MMM would not have occurred.
bfl
Some JEWS just might DISagree!
For him and other first-generation disciples who had seen and were taught by Jesus, it could be that which they personally wrote down, or which was written down by an amansuensis and certified by a true apostle(s), and preserved by God as Holy Scripture.
There is now not only no further need for glossolalia, but no one now living has the slightest idea of what that was or even what it sounded like. It certainly has not ever been inscripturated, nor was it ever the basis of prophesy.
Did Jesus, as God, speak thus to men or to The Father? If so, there is no record of it. Did He ever instruct, authorize, or ordain humans to utter nonsense as a working of the Spirit? There is no basis for that, either.
What He did ordain Himself, or delegated His Disciple-Apostles the authority to teach to their disciples whatsoever He had commanded them (Mt. 28:20), and that the existing Word (logos) should be preached (2 Tim. 2:2, 4:2; 2 Pet. 3:15-16).
In our day, the expositorily preached (= prophesied) faithfully translated Holy Scriptures are sufficient to the fully mature spiritual man for all faith and all practice in every situation.
Thank you so much. I was about to ignore the post in my impatience, but your answer was quite excellent.
It should have taken only one cracked skull, before they wised up, but hey, what do I know?
On the other hand, it sounds like a clear case of collusion. I wonder if the Russians were involved in it? Did anyone alert that chump, that is investigating Trump? 😁🙃😂
And modern day, small "a" apostles or missionaries of the New Covenant are not the same as the big "A" Apostles who were first hand witnesses to Christ's earthly ministry and who wrote the Word of God.
But as Paul wrote: Christ "gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers" for unity of the faith and doctrine that Paul and the disciples preached in this Church Age.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+4%3A11-16&version=KJV
And just as John the Baptist's disciples needed to be baptized with the Holy Spirit by Paul, and they began to prophesy and speak in tongues, so this is for us now in the church age.
But -- as metmom might remember - I have been one of the biggest critics of the abuses of modern day prophesy in the charismatic and Pentecostal churches, and I do so as a charismatic Pentecostal, who functions in the full gifts of the Spirit.
One cannot add to the Word of God, as Moses taught... and Paul and John wrote. To add modern day prophecies to the canon of Scripture is heresy, and common sense, too.
Because to add to a contract or covenant is to change it!
It is strictly forbidden; and just because Joseph Smith said that the book of Mormon is to be regarded as new revelation as the Bible, or Rick Joyner of the NAR Elijah List thinks himself on par with the Apostles, does not make it so.
Jesus said that the word is eternal, and "heaven and earth shall pass away, but My word shall never pass away".
And this is why the Devil is constantly raising up false teachers and counterfeit prophets -- to twist the Word. (Just as he did with Christ in the forty days in the desert.)
My background is similar to Pastor Bill Randles, and I do not believe that one can properly dispatch or discern the charismatic false teachings and pentecostal false prophets pf the NAR or Mormonism or any other cult without it, though some evangelicals today do their best to understand and deconstruct the evil of the NAR.
But not believing that God might give us a word of knowledge or some sort of prophetic insight or dream or vision negates the entirety of Pentecost and the power of the Christian's walk.
Cessationists are just as easily dismissed by the Word as the NAR false teachers. It is beyond ridiculous, if not heresy, to imply that the Gifts just happened for the first century church.
Prophesying in the church is done for the encouragement of the saints, and should always be checked for veracity against the Word of God, and those "prophets" in the church should be accountable to their local fellowship; no one in this church age has the same assignment of God as the Old Testament Prophets did with the ancient Hebrews, because the ancient Jews did not have the free gift of the Holy Spirit. (though they longed for it!)
Just the same as modern day church does not hold the same function as the Levites Priesthood of the Old Testament; now the Holy Spirit has fallen at Pentecost.
For you to say the gifts are not for today is to pushback on the entirety of the Old and New Covenants.
The problem is for us is how to be Bereans about these Gifts. http://biblehub.com/bsb/acts/19.htm
The Holy Spirit Received at Ephesus By John The Baptist's Disciples
(Joel 2:28-32; John 14:15-26; John 16:5-16; Acts 2:1-13; Acts 10:44-48)
While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the interior and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?”
“No,” they answered, “we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
“Into what, then, were you baptized?” Paul asked.
“The baptism of John,” they replied.
Paul explained:
“John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the One coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”
On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
There were about twelve men in all.
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