And modern day, small "a" apostles or missionaries of the New Covenant are not the same as the big "A" Apostles who were first hand witnesses to Christ's earthly ministry and who wrote the Word of God.
But as Paul wrote: Christ "gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers" for unity of the faith and doctrine that Paul and the disciples preached in this Church Age.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+4%3A11-16&version=KJV
And just as John the Baptist's disciples needed to be baptized with the Holy Spirit by Paul, and they began to prophesy and speak in tongues, so this is for us now in the church age.
But -- as metmom might remember - I have been one of the biggest critics of the abuses of modern day prophesy in the charismatic and Pentecostal churches, and I do so as a charismatic Pentecostal, who functions in the full gifts of the Spirit.
One cannot add to the Word of God, as Moses taught... and Paul and John wrote. To add modern day prophecies to the canon of Scripture is heresy, and common sense, too.
Because to add to a contract or covenant is to change it!
It is strictly forbidden; and just because Joseph Smith said that the book of Mormon is to be regarded as new revelation as the Bible, or Rick Joyner of the NAR Elijah List thinks himself on par with the Apostles, does not make it so.
Jesus said that the word is eternal, and "heaven and earth shall pass away, but My word shall never pass away".
And this is why the Devil is constantly raising up false teachers and counterfeit prophets -- to twist the Word. (Just as he did with Christ in the forty days in the desert.)
My background is similar to Pastor Bill Randles, and I do not believe that one can properly dispatch or discern the charismatic false teachings and pentecostal false prophets pf the NAR or Mormonism or any other cult without it, though some evangelicals today do their best to understand and deconstruct the evil of the NAR.
But not believing that God might give us a word of knowledge or some sort of prophetic insight or dream or vision negates the entirety of Pentecost and the power of the Christian's walk.
Cessationists are just as easily dismissed by the Word as the NAR false teachers. It is beyond ridiculous, if not heresy, to imply that the Gifts just happened for the first century church.
Prophesying in the church is done for the encouragement of the saints, and should always be checked for veracity against the Word of God, and those "prophets" in the church should be accountable to their local fellowship; no one in this church age has the same assignment of God as the Old Testament Prophets did with the ancient Hebrews, because the ancient Jews did not have the free gift of the Holy Spirit. (though they longed for it!)
Just the same as modern day church does not hold the same function as the Levites Priesthood of the Old Testament; now the Holy Spirit has fallen at Pentecost.
For you to say the gifts are not for today is to pushback on the entirety of the Old and New Covenants.
The problem is for us is how to be Bereans about these Gifts. http://biblehub.com/bsb/acts/19.htm
The Holy Spirit Received at Ephesus By John The Baptist's Disciples
(Joel 2:28-32; John 14:15-26; John 16:5-16; Acts 2:1-13; Acts 10:44-48)
While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the interior and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?”
“No,” they answered, “we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
“Into what, then, were you baptized?” Paul asked.
“The baptism of John,” they replied.
Paul explained:
“John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the One coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”
On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
There were about twelve men in all.
One preacher I heard said that the better question wasn’t whether the gifts are for today or not, and in spite of his otherwise VERY conservative theological stand, he thinks they are, but the better question would be if what is practiced by the Pentecostal church today as the gift of tongues is the same gift as it was practiced in the NT, and at that point, he says not.
I would have to agree with him. I don’t see that the gifts listed in 1 Corinthians 12 have ever been rescinded but I also do not see them being practiced as Paul instructed and I don’t think that what they are listed as is the same as how they are begin defined these days.
Please explain what you mean by your functioning "in the full gifts of the Spirit". We know from Scripture that NO ONE receives every gift:
Some Pentecostals/Charismatics have asserted that unless one speaks in tongues, he/she ISN'T baptized by the Holy Spirit. Do you believe that, too?
Some Pentecostals/Charismatics assert that the gift of tongues is for the believer in order to "pray in the Spirit". Does that mean someone who doesn't have the gift of tongues cannot pray in the Spirit?. What do you say?
Well, I think enough of what God's Word has shown and affirmed to me to know that in giving this pronouncement, you've taken yourself too seriously and have gone way overboard; but I'm not so stuck on myself as to become offended or intimidated. We'll let His Scriptures determine the value of your estimate.
The problem is for us is how to be Bereans about these Gifts.
Rightly said, and I agree. I've been of a Berean mindset for a long time--open-minded--not closed-minded like the ignoble Thessalonikans, whose attitude one should beware of. The Bereans kept their options open long enough to check their existing TaNaKh to determine whether Paul's doctrine was true to as much of God's progressive revelation that they had in hand. It wasn't to them that Paul had to send disciplinary letters.
Considering that, it seems a bit strange to me that you would post these verses from Acts 19:1-7 without providing some explanation of how it is to be used to support your thesis of survival of sign gifts into today's Christian ministries.
Have you thought of why this passage (which probably resulted from Apollos' incomplete Gospel teaching at Ephesus) is placed at this juncture of Luke's history of Paul's travels? Have you figured out at which point in this account any of a dozen of theological students was born anew? Did they all make the same commitment to The Christ at the same moment? Or have you figured out why your translation omits the word "Christ" where the AV does not? And what was the correlation between Apollos, their teacher, having gone to Corinth before Paul arrived at Ephesus on his third apostolic journey, from whence he wrote the first canonical epistle to the Corinthian church? Or how does this pouring out of the Spirit compare to Saul bar Kish's experience, or Samuel's anointing of David? And why did Peter's preaching of The Faith to Cornelius' household result in a water baptism subsequent to the effusion of Spirit signs, whereas at Ephesus the water baptism preceded that display? And moreover, why did none of the 120 initial disciples present at the coming of the Holy Ghost require water baptism, when apparently the Ephesian disciples did? Why was it that these particular disciples at Ephesus did not know that a manifestation of the Holy Ghost's activity in a regenerated first-century follower of The Way was presumed, when the gospel had been preached there at Ephesus many years ago, with a following circle of believers existing since then?
I am not sure what you want me to assume from your citation. What does your bolding of verse 6 mean, especially regarding the continuance of the sign gifts?
There are a lot of ways to comment on your pointless reply. You'll need to give it some substance so I can get some wood on it.
But as the others have said, it does take some time, so let's economize. To me, the completion of the progressively revealed infallible, inerrant, plenarily, verbally, Written and Preserved Words of God which ended as of 100 A. D. is the "That Which Is Perfect (= Finished, Finalized)" that has displaced "That Which Was Partial (= Incomplete)" of which the glossolalia, the special prophetical magnifying of God's Name and Qualities, and exposition of the twelve previously mysterious doctrines is over with. So far, no preacher or Bible translation from thence even though helpful, edifying, and encouraging, has ever been found faultless. Nor have any Edgar Cayce-type future-tellers ever been found to be right on the button, all the time, as would have been expected of God's appointed mouthpiece, if such existed.
Nowhere have I ever claimed that The Holy Spirit ever ceased in supplementing our weaknesses, prayers, or physical, mental, and spiritual health when a truly regenerated Christ-follower leans on Him. But there is no substitute to being filled with the Spirit through permitting the Word of Christ to dwell in ones mind and heart in all wisdom, and admonishing each other through psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, making melody in ones heart unto the Lord. It is that kind of filling and the doing of it, that pleases The Father way beyond the level to which the exercising the once-partially-useful sign gifts could ever obtain.
I've been through all that FGBMFI, Demos Shakarian, Cross & Switchblade, speaking-in-tongues, seeking-hidden-knowledge, prosperity gospel approach. Through long and deep experimentation with it, I've found that it does not and cannot satisfy. It will never take you to the place where Spirit-led immersion in, and insightful application of God's Word gets you.
Just sitting down and prayerfully opening my faithfully translated Bible lets me know that it is The God, My Heavenly Father, and His Son right by me, speaking directly to me from the words recorded there. There is nothing better, than when He lifts me to another plane and shows me something I had not seen before, that I cannot find on my own, something precious, some golden nugget of truth, a key to sweeter relationships with fellow humans, a comfort for a sad heart. That is available and accessible to every one of His children, inexhaustible. That is the gift that keeps on giving.
Remember, You must die. You must. Are you really prepared for it? It is given to every human, even Jesus, once to die, but after that, the Judgment. What do you want to take to heaven? A growing and ever-deeper, richer fellowship with Him in His Word that will continue right along forever? Or a list of failed searches for easily-attained fulfillment of your wishes?
I'm looking forward to deeper and deeper Bible Study in Heaven, forever.