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Strategies for Returning to the [Catholic] Church
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| 01-11-18
| James Day
Posted on 01/11/2018 6:54:52 PM PST by Salvation
Strategies for Returning to the Church
James Day
Our world is a fallen world. The effects of sin seem to be suffocating us. The diabolical is running rampant, unleashed, playing with immortal souls as if puppets on a string. Pride continues to dominate; repentance for anything is deemed archaic, of little use to todays enlightened thinking.
Certainly this is not the positive language one wants to hear at the outset of a new year, when expectations and resolutions are running high. But all is not really so dire: the diabolical and pervasive sin has not crushed the divine light. My Immaculate Heart will triumph, promises the Lady of Fatima. There is a reason the Church opens a new year honoring the Mother of God: obedience to accepting ones mission in life is the most daunting and exciting prospect we face on this earth. We have a guidebook in how to do it through Marys fiat.
Perhaps over holiday festivities and the euphoria and stress of families coming together, some readers might have encountered resistance from relatives regarding the graces offered in entering the mystery of faith during this holy season. Whether it was avoidance from some in either attending Christmas Mass or praying before a Christmas dinner, such discomforts surely existed. While certainly everyone is different, with their own freedom and right to privacy, perhaps there are some of you readers whose own childrenraised in the Catholic faith you so diligently sought to instill in them want nothing to do with it anymore. It is to this element I wish to address.
In my own experience, generally speaking, I have found degrees of toleration from lapsed or non-Catholics regarding matters of the faith they know the Catholic Church continues to play an enormous part in global affairs while recalling their own experiences either through schooling or parish life. I have found that while the pervading motif of the millennial generation is a general shunning towards organized religion and regular church attendance, there yet remains a desire for an experience of the transcendent. And that desire is the silver lining.
Unfortunately, committed Catholics are not always quite the fearless galvanized evangelizers that each one is called to be. Marveling that St. Francis de Sales converted 40,000 is usually met with a shrug: Well, thats why hes a saint. But thats the precisely the mentality that needs to change.
A Jesuit once posed in a homily, Listen to conversations. How long does it take before God is ever mentioned? Out of not wanting to create controversy, God is never mentioned. When he is, or when the Church is mentioned, Catholics are immediately put on the defensive. We can stay silent, letting the Uber driver, for example, have his say about the occultish practice of Catholics (as I experienced recently), or we can defend Holy Mother Church, as we would defend our own mother, and begin a conversation. The faith is not part of the pie of life. It is the pie.
I have come to believe that, in this era, accommodation will not work. Appeasing the culture may seem like a conciliatory gesture, but those on the opposite side most probably will not respect such compromiseeven if they do not agree with the position in question. In reading Paul Kengors new book, A Pope and a President, on President Reagan and Pope St. John Paul IIs battles against communism, the consistency in the Churchs long running condemnation of communism as far back as Pius IX is impressive. The Church may have apologized for grievous actions throughout its long history, but it has never apologized for being magnificent.
So, how to engage your lapsed love one on returning to the Church? After all, that is our sole dutyto grow into our authentic selves, made in the image of God, and safeguard our immortal souls and those of others towards eternal life. Remembering we can only extend an invitation, a proposal, respecting the freedom of others, here are some strategies:
I: Know Thyself
Be yourself a model of virtue.
Live the Gospel, avoiding hypocrisy, condemnation of others, descent into pettiness. If you consider yourself a Catholic first and desire others to feel that same zeal, your example is the best model. Just like Mary.
Avoid “preaching.”
Respectfully engage in conversation in whatever topic arises. Listen to the other person. Avoid shouting or screaming. Do not let a discussion become an argument or a fight. But know the teachings rather than relying on your own emotions in the heat of the moment.
Pray constantly (1 Thessalonians 5:16).
Read Scripture daily, particularly the Gospels, alone or with family. Have the Catechism handy. Always be reading a spiritual work. Your own edification will inevitably seep into your own worldview. Petition the Trinity for guidance. Ask saints for intercession. Call on the Blessed Mother multiple times a day.
Know your own spiritual story.
What were the integral moments for you in your faith formation? Where did God reveal Himself? Write your own spiritual autobiography in a way that you find creative and inspiring. Know thyself is not just an ancient Greek saying. Its vital to ones own development.
Pray the Mass, as St. Pius X instructs.
Throw your fears and pains onto the altar. Bow your head at the Consecration; respect the Real Presence of Jesus Christ.
II: Extend an Invitation
Know the story of your lapsed child or loved one.
Communication is simply mutual understanding, says Stephen R. Covey. You have to care about who they are, where theyve been, and where they want to go while you are called to evangelize, you cannot treat them as an agenda, a project. In this way, study Ignatian spirituality for insight on the discernment of spirits. You are always an unofficial spiritual director to someone!
Find common ground.
There are many launching points one can meet due to the richness of the Catholic faith. Unfortunately, many lapsed Catholics have a distorted or misinformed view of the faith, just as many in the Protestant and evangelical world have a Reformation-era concept of the papacy. Much time may be spent on clearing the cobwebs on the reality of the Catholic Church today. Yes, corruption and scandal and atrocities have weakened the moral authority of the Church. But there is a difference between human failings and the Church as founded by Christ handed to Saint Peter (Matthew 16:18). That needs to be made clear. (See Joseph Ratzinger, Why I Am Still in the Church.)
Nurture their interests.
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Luke 12:34). Getting to know your loved one authentically and establishing common ground will offer new avenues of appreciation. Are they artists, musicians, poets, writers? Michelangelo, Gaudi, chant, or the great classics of literature offer beautiful immersive experiences in the Catholic worldview.
Pope Francis has been an inspiration for those of any background, through his environment work, Laudato Si, or his call for activism towards migrants, refugees, the disenfranchised.
Connect them with possibly like minded individuals who might continue the conversation, depending on their interests: educators, bioethicists, Father Spitzers Magis Institute on science, faith, and reason. Historical subjects on the veracity of Jesus: the Shroud of Turin, for example (see Ian Wilsons The Shroud, among others).
Give your lapsed child or loved one Matthew Kellys Rediscover Catholicism or a similar book that perhaps impacted you. Rediscover appeals to the mainstream, ringing distant bells they would have remembered growing up Catholic. In many ways, that book is an appetizer to what awaits.
Bottom line: communicate the resources provided by so many apostolatesthere is something for everyone. Many of those actively engaged in the mission of salvation, the mission of the Church, were once lapsed themselves. Just ask St. Augustine, Dorothy Day, or many great evangelizers in our day and age.
Invite your lapsed child or loved one to Confession.
Its a challenging invitation. But youve at least put it out there. At the same time, do not let the graces of Confession become distorted. While one receives absolution, authentic penance comes when ones life is turned around. So often the thought is that a few Hail Marys and Our Fathers is all the Church demands for conciliation. Actually, one must authentically set out determined to begin anew, a new person, transformed. Vinny Flynns 7 Secrets of Confession is a powerful little book for guidance.
Extend an invitation to Mass.
Bring an extra copy of Magnificat or a book with daily readings and give your loved one a copy. Sit up close. And then pray the Mass. Together.
Give your loved one Benedict XVIs Jesus of Nazareth.
Along with the timelessness of the Scriptures themselves, this trilogy is written for people of our time to rediscover Christ. It is some of the most staggering spiritual reading you will encounter.
III: Going Forward
Three very simple, practical steps:
- 1.) Offer help in introducing your loved one to parish resources in their diocese, again contingent on their own discernment of spirits, perhaps even establishing a regular meeting with a spiritual director.
- 2.) In a quiet moment, offer to pray with them, calling specifically on the Holy Family for guidance.
- 3.) Finally, ask them to pray for you.
Happy New Year!
TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; evangelization; prayer
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To: ravenwolf
... however Jesus does tell Peter that he shall be called a rock and Up on this rock I will build my Church.Yup; and yanking it out of context is a GOOD way to illustrate how ROME manages to come up with doctrine, 'found' in the Bible.
181
posted on
01/13/2018 4:35:02 AM PST
by
Elsie
(Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: ravenwolf
Scripture is what it is no matter if it is the mother of the harlots or the daughters that are quoting it.Except when it AIN't what it is...
Call no man father...
182
posted on
01/13/2018 4:36:00 AM PST
by
Elsie
(Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: ealgeone
Now just HOW am I expected to clean all of the grey matter off of my screen when our FR Catholic's HEADS explode over the HERESY!!! you've just posted??
183
posted on
01/13/2018 4:38:46 AM PST
by
Elsie
(Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: Mom MD
Gods plans will not be thwarted Had Mary said no there would have been another.AU contraire!
Had Mary 'said' "NO!" she would have STILL bore the Christ Child!!
READ the book!
Luke 1:26-38 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
26 And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.
31 Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever.
33 And of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man?
35 And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shalt come upon thee, and the power of the most High shalt overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shalt be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
36 And behold thy cousin Elizabeth, she also hath conceived a son in her old age; and this is the sixth month with her that is called barren:
37 Because no word shalt be impossible with God.
38 And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
(shall / shalt is NOT 'asking' Mary if she'll do something for GOD)
But stating what IS going to happen!!
184
posted on
01/13/2018 4:42:24 AM PST
by
Elsie
(Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: ravenwolf; Iscool
I have not seen the word little rock or massive stone in the scripture, are you sure it really says that? Thanks Nonsense.
You were shown the Greek in post 86 where I showed you that in the Greek, where *Petros* means little rock and Paul says that Christ is the *Petra*, and that is bedrock.
In the Greek, they are different words denoting different things.
If you choose to ignore the plain meaning of the words in the original language, you are wrong.
185
posted on
01/13/2018 4:43:25 AM PST
by
metmom
( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
To: Mom MD
Who is this free from sin mother of god character you speak of?Yeah; there IS a bit of a problem here; Houston!
Luke 2:22-24
When the time came for the purification rites required by the Law of Moses, Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord (as it is written in the Law of the Lord, Every firstborn male is to be consecrated to the Lord), and to offer a sacrifice in keeping with what is said in the Law of the Lord: a pair of doves or two young pigeons.
Leviticus 12:7-8
Then he shall offer it before the LORD and make atonement for her, and she shall be cleansed from the flow of her blood. This is the law for her who bears a child, whether a male or a female.
'But if she cannot afford a lamb, then she shall take two turtledoves or two young pigeons, the one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for her, and she will be clean.'"
Sinless Mary??
Not according to Rome's Book;
1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin,
we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
That's the way it is WRITTEN.
THIS is the way it is TAUGHT:
1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin,
we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us
; the only exception being Mary, Mother of GOD, of course.
Rome has made IT's 'Mary' into a HYPOCRIT, by painting her as SINLESS, yet writing of her going into the temple to make a SIN offering.
186
posted on
01/13/2018 4:44:19 AM PST
by
Elsie
(Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: jjotto
187
posted on
01/13/2018 4:47:49 AM PST
by
Elsie
(Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: daniel1212; TallahasseeConservative
However, considering that it has been acknowledged that Francis was validly elected as pope, that makes him the valid pope of the Roman Catholic church whether they like him or not.
Because, like it or not, their church leadership, which has the authority to do so, decided on it, not them, and therefore, they have nothing to say about it.
Their duty is to submit to the pope, as stated MANY times in the history of the church, and do what he says.
188
posted on
01/13/2018 4:49:24 AM PST
by
metmom
( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
To: metmom; StormPrepper; Normandy; teppe
Then the new RF rules state that you have to be an actively participating member of something or other in order to be on caucus threads.Does zat work for Jack Mormons; too?
Perhaps they want to comment on the new Living Prophet®?
189
posted on
01/13/2018 4:49:58 AM PST
by
Elsie
(Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: daniel1212; Ken Regis; Mark17; boatbums; aMorePerfectUnion; Elsie; Iscool; ealgeone; Luircin
Well, you are a very active conservative Catholic, since you cannot escape being the latter according to the fantasy that flow from Rome's rote ritual regeneration. You are just not active as a Catholic, like men such as Ted Kennedy was according to how Rome treated him. And here we thought faith without works is dead. I guess that means that Ted Kennedy would be able to post on Cath caucus threads and we former Catholics not.
190
posted on
01/13/2018 4:51:50 AM PST
by
metmom
( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
To: ravenwolf
Peter did not take the lead in the Council at Jerusalem in Acts 15.
That was James who lead it.
And there is NO record in Scripture of the other apostles or disciples looking to Peter for leadership. Nor is there ANYTHING in either of OPeter’s NT letters that indicate it.
You’re falling for Rome’s spurious claims.
Even the Eastern Orthodox don’t accept it.
191
posted on
01/13/2018 4:55:20 AM PST
by
metmom
( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
To: metmom
192
posted on
01/13/2018 4:57:22 AM PST
by
Elsie
(Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: metmom
Just like Mary.
Let this mind, be in you,
Philippians 2:5
193
posted on
01/13/2018 4:59:21 AM PST
by
Elsie
(Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: ealgeone
Are you ever "good enough" as a Roman Catholic?? At LEAST the Mormon TEST their members every coupla years.
Gotta keep that Temple Recommend© valid or you'll not make it to Level One in Mormon Heaven: Celestial...
194
posted on
01/13/2018 5:02:24 AM PST
by
Elsie
(Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: ravenwolf
Jesus had already named Simon in Hebrew before that, at their first meeting, the Hebrew word for rock.No; He did not.
Is Peter the 'rock'?
NIV Matthew 4:18-19 18. As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. 19. "Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."
NIV Matthew 8:14 When Jesus came into Peter's house, he saw Peter's mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever.
NIV Matthew 10:1-2 1. He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and sickness. 2. These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John;
NIV Matthew 14:28-31 28. "Lord, if it's you," Peter replied, "tell me to come to you on the water." 29. "Come," he said. Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30. But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, "Lord, save me!" 31. Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. "You of little faith," he said, "why did you doubt?"
NIV Matthew 15:13-16 13. He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14. Leave them; they are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit." 15. Peter said, "Explain the parable to us." 16. "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.
As you can see, Simon was already known as 'Peter'
BEFORE the following verses came along.....
NIV Matthew 16:13-18 13. When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?" 14. They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets." 15. "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" 16. Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17. Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
19. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
NIV 1 Corinthians 10:4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
NIV Luke 6:48 He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.
NIV Romans 9:33 As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
NIV 1 Peter 2:4-8 4. As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him-- 5. you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6. For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame." 7. Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone, " 8. and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for.
But, since there WAS no NT at the time Christ spoke to Peter, just what DID Peter and the rest of the Disciples know about ROCKS???
NIV Genesis 49:24-25 24. But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel, 25. because of your father's God, who helps you, because of the Almighty, who blesses you with blessings of the heavens above, blessings of the deep that lies below, blessings of the breast and womb.
NIV Numbers 20:8 "Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink."
NIV Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.
NIV Deuteronomy 32:15 Jeshurun grew fat and kicked; filled with food, he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior.
NIV Deuteronomy 32:18 You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.
NIV Deuteronomy 32:30-31 30. How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up? 31. For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede.
NIV 1 Samuel 2:2 "There is no one holy like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.
NIV 2 Samuel 22:2-3 2. He said: "The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; 3. my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior-- from violent men you save me.
NIV 2 Samuel 22:32 For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?
NIV 2 Samuel 22:47 "The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God, the Rock, my Savior!
NIV 2 Samuel 23:3-4 3. The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me: `When one rules over men in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God, 4. he is like the light of morning at sunrise on a cloudless morning, like the brightness after rain that brings the grass from the earth.'
NIV Psalms 18:2 The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
NIV Psalms 18:31 For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?
NIV Psalms 18:46 The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior!
NIV Psalms 19:14 May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.
NIV Psalms 28:1
To you I call, O LORD my Rock; do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who have gone down to the pit.
NIV Psalms 31:2-3 2. Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me. 3. Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me.
NIV Psalms 42:9 I say to God my Rock, "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?"
NIV Psalms 62:2 He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken.
NIV Psalms 62:6 He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.
NIV Psalms 62:7 My salvation and my honor depend on God ; he is my mighty rock, my refuge.
NIV Psalms 71:3 Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress.
NIV Psalms 78:35 They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer.
NIV Psalms 89:26 He will call out to me, `You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.'
NIV Psalms 92:14-15 14. They will still bear fruit in old age, they will stay fresh and green, 15. proclaiming, "The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him."
NIV Psalms 95:1 Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.
NIV Psalms 144:1 Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.
NIV Isaiah 17:10 You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress.
NIV Isaiah 26:4 Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal.
NIV Isaiah 30:29 And you will sing as on the night you celebrate a holy festival; your hearts will rejoice as when people go up with flutes to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel.
NIV Isaiah 44:8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one."
NIV Habakkuk 1:12 O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish. |
.....No other rock.............
And now you know the Biblical position!
195
posted on
01/13/2018 5:06:25 AM PST
by
Elsie
(Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: ravenwolf
Sorry but you have to add to much to the Bible to make it say what you want it toSorry that Rome teaches you Catholics to IGNORE stuff that the Bible DOES say!
Call no man father
196
posted on
01/13/2018 5:07:33 AM PST
by
Elsie
(Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: FourtySeven
They continue always to repost the same SPAM regarding the exchange in Matt 16 but ignore elsewhere in Scripture where Peter is clearly called rock (Cephas).I'll await your comments on what I have posted...
197
posted on
01/13/2018 5:09:28 AM PST
by
Elsie
(Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: Mark17; metmom
What I meant was, who makes the determination, if they are good enough to post in the FRCatholic caucus? 😁 I was thinking about that yesterday. I think it's like a cruise ship. It seems they have an "Activity Director."
To: FourtySeven
Its an irrefutable point, but that wont stop those who have an agenda.Really?
199
posted on
01/13/2018 5:10:14 AM PST
by
Elsie
(Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: Salvation
As determined by God before His Son, Jesus Christ, was made incarnate.So says Rome; with absolutely ZERO proof at all!
200
posted on
01/13/2018 5:11:19 AM PST
by
Elsie
(Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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