Posted on 01/11/2018 6:54:52 PM PST by Salvation
I didn’t *interpret* anything as there’s no need to change the clear meaning of the Greek.
It says what it says and you can deny it all you want but then you’re stuck in the position of denying FACTS.
Petra and Petros are not the same thing.
I don’t doubt that people who deny reality sleep well.
Just like the Muslims, too, and they will also kill you if you try to leave. Roman Catholics used to do that until they lost their claim to temporal power over everyone. A few here have even expressed a desire for the Inquisitions to start up again! I don't recall Jesus ever teaching it was okay to torture people into believing the "right" way.
“Therefore Catholics are prohibited by Unam Sanctum, from having the option of not being in submission to him.”
Which isn’t an issue.
You can get a half dozen definitions from that many authorities but it makes no difference if it was rock,
stone or pebble.
Jesus told Peter he was giving him the keys to the kingdom
do you also deny that?
Gee did Jesus say anything that was the truth?
Yun
I am also what some people would call anti Catholic in the sense that I believe they are preaching religion instead of
truth.
But the Bible has already been translated good enough to
suit me and you seem to be a very bright person, probably
Much brighter than I am but I think I will just take the
Bible for what it says. Thanks
Made up out of whole cloth and never taught by an Apostle, nor found in Scripture.
Made up out of whole (pagan) cloth. Never taught by an Apostle, nor found in Scripture for the Church.
Cephas is Greek? Maybe I am mistaken. Thanks.
We can say that Jesus was talking to all of the apostles but proving it is something else,
We wouldn't say it if we couldn't prove it...
Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
ALL the disciples...And there were far more than just the 12...
Act 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
So how do we know it wasn't just the 12 Apostles there at this event???
Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Joh 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
All the disciples were assembled but the 12 apostles were acknowledged separately from the disciples...
So here's what Jesus said to Peter...
Mat_16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Jesus didn't hand over the keys at that time, it was for the near future...And obviously binding and loosing were abilities of the person holding the keys...
So in the near future,,,,,,,,,,,,
Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
All right, who was Jesus speaking to here???
Mat 18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
The disciples...Jesus was speaking to All the disciples...Whether it was the 12 apostles or all the disciples, the point is every disciple was given the KEYS to the kingdom to be able to bind and loose, NOT just Peter...
So then, was Peter the head honcho, the first pope???
Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Clearly not...THEY sent Peter, and John...They were all equal...
Mat 18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
Mat 18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Don't spit your coffee all over your monitor but Catholics call the Catholic religion the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth...And they bow down to and kiss the feet of their pope...They say he is Jesus Christ on Earth...
Now who could believe that and still claim to believe God in the scriptures...Why didn't Jesus tell the disciples that Peter, or the pope was the greatest in the Kingdom???
In the Greek language which they were speaking, Jesus called Peter 'a little rock, a stone'...And then Jesus said he would build his church on a massive rock, like the rock of Gibraltar...
Nonsense...God would have known it ahead of time and picked another girl...Mary did not hold the future of eternity in her hands...That's nuts...
Ok, so what you are also saying is that it was not Peter who spoke on the day of Pentecost when 3000 were added to the number but all of the apostles and disciples were also speaking.
Oh boy I sure don’t know how the translaters got it mixed up
so bad,sure is a good thing we have people like you to catch
all of the wrong translations and lies.
Just can’t believe anything Jesus said can you?
I have not seen the word little rock or massive stone in the scripture, are you sure it really says that? Thanks
Well he resigned, but there are other reasons for not being part of the most manifest deformation of the NT church. Which church, as manifested in the only wholly inspired-of-God substantive record of what the New Testament church believed (including their understanding of the gospels) ,
1. Was not based upon the premise of ensured perpetual magisterial infallibility of office as per Rome, which has presumed to infallibly declare that she is and will perpetually be infallible whenever she speaks in accordance with her infallibly defined (scope and subject-based) formula, which renders her declaration that she is infallible, to be infallible, as well as all else she accordingly declares.
2. Never promised or taught ensured perpetual magisterial infallibility was essential for preservation of truth, including writings to be discerned and established as Scripture, and for assurance of faith, and that historical descent as the stewards of Scripture means that such possessed ensured infallibility.
3. Never was a church that manifested the Lord's supper as being the prominent paramount practice as the central means of grace, around which all else revolved, it being “the source and summit of the Christian faith” in which “the work of our redemption is accomplished,” by which one received spiritual life in themselves by consuming the “real” flesh and blood of Christ under the appearance and manifest materialism of non-existent bread and wine, even to the smallest particle (until such begins to decay, at which point Christ also is said to cease to exist under that “appearance”). Which is in contrast to preaching the word being the primary active function of pastors (see below). And with the Lord's supper, which is only manifestly described once (besides “feast of charity” in Jude 1:12) in the inspired record of the life of the church, focusing on the church being the body of Christ in showing the Lord sacrificial death by that communal meal.
4. Never had any pastors titled "priests" as denoting a separate sacerdotal class (and (thus translating the distinctive Greek word for such, hiereus,” as “priest,” but which word the Holy Spirit never used for NT clergy, as all believers are called to sacrifice (Rm. 12:1; 15:16; Phil. 2:17; 4:18; Heb. 13:15,16; cf. 9:9) and all constitute the only priesthood — hieráteuma — in the NT church), whose unique sacrificial function was that of confecting the Eucharist, turning bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ and offering it as a sacrifice for sin, and dispensing it to the people as spiritual food, versus preaching the word being their primary active function, (2Tim. 4:2) eeding the flock thereby (Acts 20:28)
Which alone is said to spiritually nourish souls, (1Tim. 4:6) and which builds them up. (Acts 20:32) with believing the gospel being the means of obtaining life in oneself, by which one is regenerated, (Acts 10:43-47; 15:7-9; Eph. 1:13) and thus desiring the milk (1Pt. 2:2) and then the “strong meat” (Heb. 5:12-14) of the word of God, thereby being “nourished” (1Tim. 4:6) by hearing the word of God and letting it dwell in them, (Col. 3:16) by which word (Scriptures) man is to live by, (Mt. 4:4) as Christ lived by the Father, (Jn. 6:57) doing His will being His “meat.” (Jn. 4:34)
5. Never differentiated between bishops and elders, and with grand titles ("Most Reverend Eminence," “Very Reverend,” “Most Illustrious and Most Reverend Lord,” “His Eminence Cardinal,” “The Most Reverend the Archbishop,” etc.) or made themselves distinct by their ostentatious pompous garb. (Matthew 23:5-7) Or were all to be formally called “father” as that would require them to be spiritual fathers to all (Mt. 23:8-10 is a form of hyperbole, reproving the love of titles such as Catholicism examples, and “thinking of men above that which is written, and instead the Lord emphasizes the One Father of all who are born of the Spirit, whom He Himself worked to glorify).
6. Never required clerical celibacy as the norm, (1Tim. 3:17) which presumes all such have that gift, (1Cor. 7:7) or otherwise manifested that celibacy was the norm among apostles and pastors, or had vowed to be so. (1Cor. 9:4; Titus 1:5,6)
7. Never taught that Peter was the "rock" of Mt. 16:18 upon which the church is built, interpreting Mt. 16:18, rather than upon the rock of the faith confessed by Peter, thus Christ Himself. (For in contrast to Peter, that the LORD Jesus is the Rock (“petra”) or "stone" (“lithos,” and which denotes a large rock in Mk. 16:4) upon which the church is built is one of the most abundantly confirmed doctrines in the Bible (petra: Rm. 9:33; 1Cor. 10:4; 1Pet. 2:8; cf. Lk. 6:48; 1Cor. 3:11; lithos: Mat. 21:42; Mk.12:10-11; Lk. 20:17-18; Act. 4:11; Rm. 9:33; Eph. 2:20; cf. Dt. 32:4, Is. 28:16) including by Peter himself. (1Pt. 2:4-8) Rome's current catechism attempts to have Peter himself as the rock as well, but also affirms: “On the rock of this faith confessed by St Peter, Christ build his Church,” (pt. 1, sec. 2, cp. 2, para. 424) which understanding some of the so-called “church fathers” concur with.)
8. Never taught or exampled that all the churches were to look to Peter as the bishop of Rome, as the first of a line of supreme heads reigning over all the churches, and having the last word in questions affecting the whole Church.
9. Never recorded or taught any apostolic successors (like for James: Acts 12:1,2) after Judas who was to maintain the original 12: Rv. 21:14) or elected any apostolic successors by voting, versus casting lots (no politics). (Acts 1:15ff)
10. Never recorded or manifested (not by conjecture) sprinkling or baptism without repentant personal faith, that being the stated requirement for baptism. (Acts 2:38; 8:36-38)
11. Never preached a gospel of salvation which begins with becoming good enough inside (formally justified due to infused interior charity), via sprinkling (RC "baptism") in recognition of proxy faith, and which thus usually ends with becoming good enough again to enter Heaven via suffering in purgatory, commencing at death.
12. Never supported or made laws that restricted personal reading of Scripture by laity (contrary to Chrysostom), if able and available, sometimes even outlawing it when it was.
13. Never used the sword of men to deal with its theological dissenters.
14. Never taught that the deity Muslims worship (who is not as an "unknown god") is the same as theirs.
15. Never had a separate class of believers called “saints.”
16. Never prayed to anyone in Heaven but the Lord, or were instructed to (i.e. "our Mother who art in Heaven") who were able to hear and respond to virtually unlimited prayers addressed to them (a uniquely Divine attribute in Scripture).
17. Never recorded a women who never sinned, and was a perpetual virgin despite being married (contrary to the normal description of marriage, as in leaving and sexually cleaving) and who would be bodily assumed to Heaven and exalted (officially or with implicit sanction) such as,
*being a sinless perpetual virgin, who "had to suffer, as He did, all the consequences of sins," [De Maria Nun quam Satis] "in exact duplication," [Mary of Agreda] and was bodily resurrected and crowned as an omnipotent (by God's grace) Queen of Heaven, whose command all obey, even God [Alphonsus Liguori], as "the greatness of the power which she wields over one who is God cannot be conceived," with angels "begging her as a favour to honour them with one of her requests," [Montfort] ...and the dispenser of all graces, with there being "no grace which Mary cannot dispose of as her own," [Manteau-Bonamy] that "through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation...we obtain everything through Mary," [Pope Pius IX] with "all the treasures of the mercy of God" being in her hands, [St. Peter Damian] without whom the Holy Spirit does not act, and who is actually “like unto Him” "when she acts, it is also He who acts; and that if her intervention be not accepted, neither is His," who is the "Mother of her Creator," [Cardinal Newman] who is is a debtor to her, [St. Methodius] and who "could not be more closely united to God without becoming God," who alone is solicitous for us in Heaven, [Liguori] thus “sometimes salvation is quicker if we remember Mary's name then if we invoked the name of the Lord Jesus" [Eadmer] "therefore we have recourse, to thee alone" [Liguori].
Sources, and more correction by God's grace.
All in the interest of converting souls to the self-proclaimed "apostolic church" but which (that of Scripture) never manifested these common Catholic distinctives.
People who deny reality, don’t sleep well in eternity. In fact, my opinion is, they will no rest day and night, forever. You and your ilk 😆😀 can keep teaching reality. If people want to deny it, that’s on them. BTW, one more week, till I go see Amir Tsarfati. I am sure he will have some interesting things to say. 👍
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Raven. These two guys read and translate Greek. Ask them about the Greek. I have an advantage too. My neighbor, here in the Philippines, was born and raised in Greece. Greek, obviously, is his first language. I did not ask him about the rock thing, but I have shown him parallel Greek/English Bible verses. He looks at both, and screws up his face, and says, if he were going to translate the Greek to English, he would do it exactly the same way it’s been done in KJV, since that is the translation I had.
Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
I did not tell you Peter didn't speak at Pentecost...The conversation wasn't even about Pentecost...What's wrong with you???
But you can clearly see ALL of the apostles were given the Holy Spirit and they all spoke, under the influence of the Holy Spirit...
What I’m wondering is about the obsession with Protestants instead of trying to bring salvation to people who reject Jesus entirely.
I still remember other threads where it was only the non-Catholics who were engaging the Christ-deniers on the threads...
I suspect there's a LOT of things you've never seen in the scriptures...
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