I'm too tired to delve into this as deep as it seems to require.
0) First, as to the Bereans: this was in Pauline times, and "the Scriptures" meant in his case, the Hebrew Scriptures, there are other verses about how he proved from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ. This was closer to apologetics, and is not exactly the same thing as justifying a practice or not, depending on whether it is practiced or was recorded in Scripture (see below). But I'll just throw out a couple of tidbits which seem to be useful in, as it were, parsing reports of "apparitions" (*) defined by my for the purposes of this discussion, as, dreams or visions purporting to be an angel, a Saint, or Mary.
You are right, there are aberrations: but in all fairness, there have *always* been aberrations, going all the way back to Aaron and the Golden Calf. And I'm not going to take the cheap shot of going after any number of Protestant aberrations...explicitly because there are Biblical admonitions (commands, really) to seek how to spur one another on to love and good works, that the servant of the Lord must not strive, and that one should welcome one whose faith is weak, but not for disputation (the cool part about that verse, is that the more someone thinks "but I'm *RIGHT* drat it all" the more they are constrained to be patient; and, it applies to Catholics, and Protties, and Orthodox, too...
1) The Catholics seem to take a rather skeptical view *officially*, often saying, if the believer finds private edification, OK, but we do not officially recognize nor compel acceptance.
This is the "see below." The usefulness of Scripture is that it gives benchmarks for testing to see whether things are genuinely of God, and protecting against aberrations.
2) "The testimony of Jesus Christ is the spirit of prophecy" -- the visions (unless explicitly personal e.g. "rise, Peter, kill and eat" or "come to Macedonia and help us") should glorify God and point (even if indirectly through a saint) to Jesus (well, and / or the Father: the Spirit seems to direct our attention to Them, not Himself).
3) "Believe not every spirit etc. / every Spirit which confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God" -- this is from 1 John and holds true.
Finally, on a more personal note, and applying the tests above to a standard Catholic practice:
4) I was quite surprised, upon first reading the Rosary some time after converting to Catholicism, to discover that a) the meat of the Rosary was in fact *meditation* (thinking on, pondering) on episodes in the life of Jesus and/or the Apostles (including Mary)
b) one of these was explicitly the Baptism in the Holy Spirit
c) the Prayer after the Rosary, which reads, "O GOD, whose only begotten Son, by His life, death, and resurrection, has purchased for us the rewards of eternal life, grant, we beseech Thee, that meditating upon these mysteries of the Most Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary, we may imitate what they contain and obtain what they promise, through the same Christ Our Lord." Even when I tried, I couldn't find any thing objectionable in it.
{insert goofy REALLY?? picture here.}
(Given to St. Dominic and Blessed Alan de la Roche)
| 1 | Whoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall receive powerful graces. |
| 2. | I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary. |
| 3. | The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies |
| 4. | It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of people from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means. |
| 5. | The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish. |
| 6. | Whoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying Himself to the consideration of its Sacred Mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise Him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just, he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of eternal life. |
| 7. | Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church. |
| 8. | Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plentitude of His graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the merits of the Saints in Paradise. |
| 9. | I shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary. |
| 10. | The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven. |
| 11. | You shall obtain all you ask of me by the recitation of the Rosary. |
| 12. | All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities. |
| 13. | I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire celestial court during their life and at the hour of death |
| 14. | All who recite the Rosary are my children, and brothers and sisters of my only Son, Jesus Christ. |
| 15. | Devotion of my Rosary is a great sign of predestination. |
"The Most Holy Virgin in these last times in which we live has given a new efficacy to the recitation of the Rosary to such an extent that there is no problem,
no matter how difficult it is, wheter temporal or above all spiritual, in the personal life of each one of us, of our families...that cannot be solved by the Rosary.
There is no problem, I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary."
Sister Lucia dos Santos
First, as to the Bereans: this was in Pauline times, and "the Scriptures" meant in his case, the Hebrew Scriptures,
Irrelevant: the point is it was Scripture, a body of writings which has become established as being of God without an infallible magisterium, which Rome presumes is essential for this.
0) there are other verses about how he proved from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ. This was closer to apologetics, and is not exactly the same thing as justifying a practice or not, depending on whether it is practiced or was recorded in Scripture (see below)
Which in now way counters my point, which is that the veracity of the Truth claims by the very apostles were subject to testing by Scripture as being the supreme standard, versus the novel and unScriptural premise of ensured veracity as per Rome. It is this that is to be the basis for assurance of doctrine for a faithful RC, not because he subjected them to testing by Scripture as the noble Bereans did.
You are right, there are aberrations: but in all fairness, there have *always* been aberrations, going all the way back to Aaron and the Golden Calf. And I'm not going to take the cheap shot of going after any number of Protestant aberrations...explicitly because there are Biblical admonitions (commands, really) to seek how to spur one another on to love and good works,
Which you are taking out of context. Spurring one another on to love and good works (And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: - Hebrews 10:24) is a general exhortation written to believers, and no dealing with contending with false doctrine, in which case the same word of God records,
Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry. Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him. (Acts 17:16-17)
that the servant of the Lord must not strive,
This is valid,
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. (2 Timothy 2:23-26)
But which is not opposed to disputing and contending for the faith which is commanded:
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend [epagōnizomai=struggle] for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. (Jude 1:3)
And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. (Acts 19:8)
The word for strive is "machomai," likely involved in the etymology of the word "macho," and is used for fighting (Acts 7:26; James 4:2) and otherwise seems to denote emotional carnal striving, versus reasoned disputation (dialegomai, likely involved in the etymology of the word "dialog"), and is the opposite of "gentle," which i do too often fail in, though i try to be civil with the reasonable or just ignorant.
Yet this is a general exhortation, and in balance it does not exclude what i am sure was some heated reasoning in Acts 19:8, which concluded with,
But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus. (Acts 19:9)
And I do not think Paul was out of line with his rebuke here:
And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth. Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law? (Acts 23:2-3)
one should welcome one whose faith is weak, but not for disputation (the cool part about that verse, is that the more someone thinks "but I'm *RIGHT* drat it all" the more they are constrained to be patient; and, it applies to Catholics, and Protties, and Orthodox, too...
This is out of context also, for it refers to issues of personal liberty, with the weak being one who has scruples of conscience about an issue regarding such, not false doctrine.
Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. (Romans 14:1-2)
1) The Catholics seem to take a rather skeptical view *officially*, often saying, if the believer finds private edification, OK, but we do not officially recognize nor compel acceptance. This is the "see below." The usefulness of Scripture is that it gives benchmarks for testing to see whether things are genuinely of God, and protecting against aberrations. 2) "The testimony of Jesus Christ is the spirit of prophecy" -- the visions (unless explicitly personal e.g. "rise, Peter, kill and eat" or "come to Macedonia and help us") should glorify God and point (even if indirectly through a saint) to Jesus (well, and / or the Father: the Spirit seems to direct our attention to Them, not Himself). 3) "Believe not every spirit etc. / every Spirit which confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God" -- this is from 1 John and holds true. Finally, on a more personal note, and applying the tests above to a standard Catholic practice: 4) I was quite surprised, upon first reading the Rosary some time after converting to Catholicism, to discover that a) the meat of the Rosary was in fact *meditation* (thinking on, pondering) on episodes in the life of Jesus and/or the Apostles (including Mary) b) one of these was explicitly the Baptism in the Holy Spirit c) the Prayer after the Rosary, which reads, "O GOD, whose only begotten Son, by His life, death, and resurrection, has purchased for us the rewards of eternal life, grant, we beseech Thee, that meditating upon these mysteries of the Most Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary, we may imitate what they contain and obtain what they promise, through the same Christ Our Lord." Even when I tried, I couldn't find any thing objectionable in it.
The fact that the motive is good, and the practice and teaching contains good things (which was admitted of within Luther's works by Catholics though being condemned) simply cannot validate the whole.
Every cult has good qualities, excelling where basically sound churches fail or are weak, whereby they validate themselves, but as with Rome, they effectively make themselves the supreme authority on Truth, only consisting and meaning what they say it does. Which is not how the church began.