Posted on 11/28/2017 12:09:34 PM PST by ebb tide
Praying to God not to hold someone's sin against them *IS* intercessory prayer.
And that does not mean that Stephen (or anyone intereceding) is taking the place of Jesus, but rather, (as it were) acting as His agent, or in accord with His will. ("For we know that if we ask anything according to His Will, He hears us." / "It is the will of God that none should perish, but all come to repentance.")
Sheesh.
Asking others to pray for you (even those who are (as far as we know) already in Heaven) is not trusting in them for Salvation.
Sounds like Revelation 5, especially verses 5 and 9...
Almost off topic, but I can’t resist pointing something out.
Jews were used to receiving teachings from their forefathers. Abraham was an evangelist, but there was no written text of his teaching until Moses.
Moses spent several periods of 40 days and 40 nights in supernatural communion with God. The Children of Israel camped in a comparatively small territory for 40 years with much provided for them. Moses taught them some of what he had learned from being with God. Who thinks all that time was spent on the Ten Commandments?
For Jews, the Teachings came first and then the Writings, so Judaism still follows that historical practice. That’s what makes it a separate religion, not just Christianity without the Messiah.
Academically, it might be said that the book is the notes from lectures, not the lectures themselves. Being absent explicitly in the book says nothing about presence in the lectures.
“Roman Catholics both worship and serve Mary by their actions. “
And there we go back to eagleone’s falsehood which he continues to pushes like a “Big Lie” of old. He has no actual proof for his claim, but he’ll keep saying it because regard for the truth or facts simply doesn’t enter into his agenda apparently.
“You mock the Lord Christ.”
Nope.
“When you add anything to the Gospel of Grace, you mock Jesus.”
Since I believe we are saved by grace alone, what you just claimed is a logical impossibility.
“Go put some ice on your wounded ego, Laddy Vladdi.”
It’s not wounded. But apparently yours is.
Yet that is what Roman Catholic writers have espoused over the years.
O immaculate Virgin, we are under thy protection, and therefore we have recourse, to thee alone, and we beseech thee to prevent thy beloved Son, who is irritated by our sins, from abandoning us to the power of the devil... Thou (Mary) art my only hope. . . . Lady in heaven, we have but one advocate, and that is thyself, and thou alone art truly loving and solicitous for our salvation ... My Queen and my Advocate with thy Son, whom I dare not approach. Alphonsus de Liguori, The Glories of Mary, Burns and Oates, Ld., 1868, pp. 115, 249
And where can we find an advocate who is more earnest in the affair of our salvation, or who loves us more than Mary? "We acknowledge," says Saint Augustine of her, "that one alone is solicitous for us in Heaven. "...in order that our Lord may pardon us our sins, help us with His grace, free us from dangers, and relieve us in our wants, says, addressing in the words of an ancient writer: 'We know that we have as it were but one solicitous in Heaven for us, and thou art this one, so greatly does thy solicitude for us exceed that of all the Saints.'" - Liguori, Saint Alfonso Maria De'. (2013). pp. 181-2. The Glories of Mary. London: Forgotten Books. http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/The_Glories_of_Mary_1000665057/181"
The foundation of all our confidence. . . is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. For God has committed to Mary the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is his will, that we obtain everything through Mary." — Pope Pius IX in the encyclical Ubi Primum
.."she is Mother of her Creator...through Whom the Holy Trinity is sanctified." "...she mediates between God and men." "Run through all creation in your thought and see if there be one equal or superior to the Holy Virgin, Mother of God." (Newman, from "Letter to the Rev. E. B. Pusey" contained in Newman's "Difficulties of Anglicans" Volume II);
Source for the above quotes:
http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/MarySC.html#Prefacehttp://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/newman-mary.asp
And there's more on this issue...but this give us a flavor for the sentiments of Roman Catholicism on this issue.
Vlad's Rules of Internet Debate #6…He will ignore his errors when pointed out to him and dismiss them...even when confronted with them.
I notice you would not affirm throwing out your "statues" of Mary, nor cease praying TO her, etc.
Keep living in the denial of Roman Catholic idolatry.
Any relation to this person I wonder?
"Lady Gaga".
...
“No, that’s the level of dismissal of your excuses.”
I made no excuses at all. Remember, you - not apparently knowing how to make a logical argument - tried to use a false analogy about the Roman Rite and Eastern Orthodox. I demonstrated why it was a false analogy. None of that is an excuse. It’s just your false analogy.
“The RCC and EO have been at odds over significant positions of doctrine for centuries.”
Duh! But it was still a false analogy you used. They are not Protestants, cannot be lumped together as Protestants, do not claim sola scriptura and are not sects founded only 500 or fewer years ago. That’s why your analogy failed. I agreed from the start that there are differences. But those differences do not serve as a proper analogy and cannot do so when compared with Protestantism. That’s the point.
“Tell us, oh knowledgeable one, which one is the TRUE form of Catholicism.”
Catholicism is the true form of Catholicism. Which form of Protestantism is the true form of Protestantism? You can’t say “Protestantism is” because you disagree with Lutherans or Presbyterians or Congregationalists or Evangelicals or Baptists or the Church of Christ or Mennonites or the Amish or the Quakers or the Shakers or the Methodists or the Anglicans or the Calvinists or the Pentecostals or the Seventh Day Adventists or the Swedenborgians or the Christian Scientists or the Plymouth Brethren or the Apostles of Johane Maranke or the Church of the Nazarene or the Salvation Army or the Ephrata Cloister (no, actually they’re all dead!) or the Pilgrim Holiness Church or IHOP (no, not the pancake house, the International House of Prayer).
I think we're there....maybe been there a while.
I made no errors - and that’s exactly why you don’t even point to any. You’re doing what you so often do. When you cannot win an argument you make false claims of Mary worship and post pictures.
I should create a list of “eagleone’s Rules of Internet Falsehood” or some such thing because you are entirely predictable. Even the multipinging out of desperation. Always predictable.
And the proof is easily found: You never read post #430. An honest man would simply admit it. I don’t think we’ll get an admission from you.
Jesus *irritated* by our sins?!?!
And because of that he's going to abandon us to the devil?
What BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!!!
Matthew 11:28-30 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
Romans 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Hebrews 13:5 Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
“...time to move on.
I think we’re there....maybe been there a while.”
As I just said, you always resort to false accusations of Marian worship when you can’t win an argument. And you’re proving me right by now talking about moving on. Of course you have to leave the thread...
Post #430.
If it weren’t for double standards, you’d have none at all.
Besides, religion does not save.
Jesus saves.
Anyone who is depending on religion or denominational affiliation to bet them to heaven is in for a HUGE surprise.
Vlad’s Rules of Internet Debate #7…He will attempt to copy these rules in some form or fashion.
Way ahead of you.
Difference between us....I have friends I can ping.
You’re mind reading again and trying to change the discussion away from your idolatry. I must be hitting home for you to resort to this tactic.
“If it weren’t for double standards, you’d have none at all.”
Neither Catholics nor Eastern Orthodox are Protestants. That’s not a double standard. That’s simply the truth. The fact that you have to stoop to calling such an irrefutable fact a double standard shows your failure.
“Besides, religion does not save. Jesus saves.”
He uses His grace to save us and His love is the reason for that grace. Keep in mind that St. Peter said that Baptism saves. He meant the grace of Baptism - something you would deny. If anyone has a double-standard it is you, for you claim sola scriptura but would deny St. Peter says.
“Anyone who is depending on religion or denominational affiliation to bet them to heaven is in for a HUGE surprise.”
They sure will. At the same time, anyone who attacks Christ’s Church - as you do day in and day out - will also be in for a surprise. Christ sent the Catholic Church into the world to bring the grace of His sacrifice on Calvary to men for their salvation. Anti-Catholicism was not sent by God and certainly saves no one, but you have wholeheartedly embraced it nonetheless.
You still won’t admit to not having read post #430. That’s okay. It would take an honest person to do so.
“You’re mind reading again and trying to change the discussion away from your idolatry.”
Nope. There is no idolatry to discuss. You have failed to offer any actual proof of it - and no the pictures don’t show idolatry because no one in them is worshiping an idol.
“I must be hitting home for you to resort to this tactic.”
Oh, that’s hilarious. You’ve resort to your almost perennial endgame tactic of posting photos of what you falsely call Marian worship and you think you’re “hitting home”? Oh, the projection there is monumental.
And look you’re calling on your friends for help. Desperation again. Always predictable.
“Vlad’s Rules of Internet Debate #7…He will attempt to copy these rules in some form or fashion. Way ahead of you.”
No, actually you’re way behind. I compiled such lists years ago in dealing with other anti-Catholics because they are so utterly predictable.
“Difference between us....I have friends I can ping.”
No, the difference is that I don’t rely on the internet for friends. I have them in real life instead. All you have is a ping list to fellow anti-Catholics who are as hapless and helpless as you are in debate.
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