Posted on 11/27/2017 8:37:19 AM PST by Salvation
Catholics are often unaware just how biblical the Sacred Liturgy is. The design of our traditional churches; the use of candles, incense, and golden vessels; the postures of standing and kneeling; the altar; the singing of hymns; priests wearing albs and so forth are all depicted in the Scriptures. Some of these details were features of the ancient Jewish Temple, but most are reiterated in the Book of Revelation, which describes the liturgy of Heaven.
The liturgy here on earth is modeled after the liturgy in Heaven; that is why it is so serious to tamper with it. The Book of Revelation describes the heavenly liturgy and focuses on a scroll or book that contains the meaning of life and the answers to all we seek. It also focuses on the Lamb of God, standing but with the marks of slaughter upon it. Does this not sound familiar? It is the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
We do well to be aware of the biblical roots of the Sacred Liturgy. Many people consider our rituals to be empty and vain, smells and bells. Some think austere liturgical environments devoid of much ritual are purer and closer to the worship in spirit and in truth that Jesus spoke of in John 4.
To such criticisms we must insist that our rituals, properly understood, are mystical and deeply biblical. Further, they are elements of the heavenly liturgy since almost all of them are mentioned as aspects of the worship or liturgy that takes place in Heaven. In this light, it is a serious mistake to set them aside or have a dismissive attitude toward them.
With that in mind we ought to consider the biblical references to the most common elements of Catholic and Orthodox liturgies. I have added my own occasional note in red.
Candles
Altar
Chair
Priests (elders) in Albs
Bishops miter, priests biretta
Focus on a scroll (book), The Liturgy of the Word
Incense, Intercessory prayer
Hymns
Holy, Holy, Holy
Prostration (Kneeling)
Lamb of God
Acclamations
Amen!
Silence
Mary
Happy are those called to His supper
Golden vessels, vestments
Stained Glass
Here is but a partial list, except for one quote drawn only from the Book of Revelation. I invite you to add to it.
Here is an awesome video with wonderful quotes:
pointing out errors, why you sound like some sort authority....as if just reading the bible gives you the authority to judge others wrong...meanwhile those same folks you correct, turnaround and do the same to you, so it turns into a pissing contest of who thinx they are the REAL SPIRIT BREATHED expert on scripture alone, which of course, is nowhere in the scripture....
I am not the authority. God and His Word is the authority.
I am not judging any person. I am applying God's Word to practices and beliefs that contradict His Word.
Reading the Scriptures is not enough. You must study to show yourself approved.
I told that to someone on this thread once and she said, "I have a life. I don't have time for that."
And so it goes. People make choices and value judgements about their lives and priorities.
Will you discuss the what God actually said and taught?
You're right....Roman Catholicism is modeled more on the OT system of sacrifices than the NT. The Msgr is looking the wrong way.
bump
You are not worth the time.
Nope.
Mary is not described as immaculate in the Bible nor is she described as ever virgin nor is she described as Mother of God.
Celebrating the most sacred night (day) on which blessed Mary the immaculate Virgin brought forth the Saviour for this world, and in communion with those whose memory we venerate, especially the glorious ever-Virgin Mary, Mother of our God and Lord, Jesus Christ,
It is also interesting to note when Roman Catholics bow in the Mass.
19. Instead of the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed, especially during Lent and Easter Time, the baptismal Symbol of the Roman Church, known as the Apostles Creed, may be used.
I believe in God, the Father almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
At the words that follow, up to and including the Virgin Mary, all bow.
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried; he descended into hell; on the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.
We are not called to believe in the "catholic Church" or the communion of saints.
http://www.catholicbishops.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Order-of-Mass.pdf
as God personally makes it known to you, and only you...
Its there for all who study.
You are not worth the time.
So sorry. Id assumed you were a follower of Christ.
Remember also our brothers and sisters who have fallen asleep in the hope of the resurrection, and all who have died in your mercy: welcome them into the light of your face. Have mercy on us all, we pray, that with the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, with the blessed Apostles, and all the Saints who have pleased you throughout the ages, we may merit to be coheirs to eternal life, and may praise and glorify you He joins his hands. through your Son, Jesus Christ.
http://www.catholicbishops.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Order-of-Mass.pdf
Praying for the dead is not supported in the New Testament.
And again, with Roman catholicism, it all has to work through Mary and works.
We cannot "merit" enough works to work our way into Heaven. We can only believe to gain Heaven. The NT is clear on that.
May he make of us an eternal offering to you, so that we may obtain an inheritance with your elect, especially with the most Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, with your blessed Apostles and glorious Martyrs (with Saint N.: the Saint of the day or Patron Saint) and with all the Saints, on whose constant intercession in your presence we rely for unfailing help.
No where in the NT are we told to hope for an inheritance with Mary, etc, nor do we rely upon her for salvation.
We do have the Holy Spirit making intercession for us.
A lot of truth mixed with enough false teaching that sounds good...but still remains false teaching.
This is why Christians reject Roman Catholicism. There is a difference.
Yes he can...and he twists the meaning or takes it out of context. Roman Catholics would do well to pay attention to that.
I’ve seen you before. I choose not to refute you because I believe that would be a fool’s errand.
Suffice it to say that I have seen the order of the Mass annotated to the Catholic Bible sentence by sentence.
Can’t find the link right now, but then again I’m not interested in debating you.
5.56mm
I illustrate where that is not the case. BTW...there is no "Catholic" Bible. It is simply the Bible.
Dear Lord
Please draw nearer to you all those that know you but because of their attachment to sin, stubbornly remain far from you and your One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. May your Holy Spirit open their hardened hearts and minds to the effects of sin, how it injures you and how it divides and separates those that truly love you. Inspire your brothers and sisters to be kind to each other as the engage in dialog(especially here at FReeRepublic) intended to strengthen their love for you.
and perhaps others, have been the only ones in 2000 years
God always has His people - even in the darkest of times, like the Inquisition, when they were being slaughtered for believing Gods Word.
Or when Waldensian men, women and children were being hunted and slaughtered for believing Gods Words.
In every age, and despite martyrdom by the so-called one true church, God is faithful to His own. Faithful even to death.
Dear Lord,
May those who love us love us.
And those that don’t love us,
May God turn their hearts.
And if He doesn’t turn their hearts,
May he turn their ankles,
So we’ll know them by their limping.
From many of Rome's teachings it is clear they do not understand the Scriptures. It has only been recently that individual Roman Catholics have been instructed to read the Word for themselves.
>>Once the printing press was invented, the most commonly printed book was the Bible, but this still did not make Bible-reading a Catholics common practice. Up until the mid-twentieth Century, the custom of reading the Bible and interpreting it for oneself was a hallmark of the Protestant churches springing up in Europe after the Reformation. Protestants rejected the authority of the Pope and of the Church and showed it by saying people could read and interpret the Bible for themselves. Catholics meanwhile were discouraged from reading Scripture. Identifying the reading and interpreting of the Bible as Protestant even affected the study of Scripture. Until the twentieth Century, it was only Protestants who actively embraced Scripture study.
That changed after 1943 when Pope Pius XII issued the encyclical Divino Afflante Spiritu. This not only allowed Catholics to study Scripture, it encouraged them to do so. And with Catholics studying Scripture and teaching other Catholics about what they were studying, familiarity with Scripture grew.
Scripture awareness grew after the Second Vatican Council. Mass was celebrated in the vernacular and so the Scripture readings at Mass were read entirely in English. Adult faith formation programs began to develop, and the most common program run at a parish focused on Scripture study.
The Charismatic movement and the rise of prayer groups exposed Catholics to Scripture even more. All of this contributed to Catholics becoming more familiar with the Bible and more interested in reading the Scriptures and praying with them.<<
http://www.usccb.org/bible/understanding-the-bible/study-materials/articles/changes-in-catholic-attitudes-toward-bible-readings.cfm
Indeed, if the typical Roman Catholic only hears the Scriptures at Mass then they were not exposed to much prior to Vatican 2.
From Felix Just, S.J., PhD, who is a Roman Catholic priest by his own admission.
Percent of verses read/used in the Mass NT Summary (This does not mean the verses are read in their entirety):
Since Vatican II, much more of the New Testament is included in the Lectionary for Mass. The Acts of the Apostles is used as the first reading on the Sundays and weekdays during the Easter season. The Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke are read semi-continuously on the Sundays of Ordinary Time on a three-year cycle, while passages from the Gospel of John are used mostly during the seasons of Lent and Easter and on several major feast days. Excerpts from all other NT books and letters are used as the second reading at Masses on Sundays and major feasts according to a three-year cycle, and/or weekday Masses on a two-year cycle.
NT Section | Pre-Vatican II Missal: Sundays and Major Feasts | Current Lectionary: Sundays and Major Feasts | Current Lectionary: Sundays and Weekdays | |
Gospels | 22.4% | 57.8% | 89.8% | |
Acts | 3.5% | 16.4% | 48.9% | |
Romans | 15.9% | 27.0%% | 52.7% | |
Pauline Letters (including Romans above) | 18.1% | 31.3% | 56.7% | |
Deutero-Paulines | 15.2% | 37.3% | 64.7% | |
Hebrews | 5.6% | 27.6% | 62.0% | |
Catholic Epistles | 13.2% | 24.7% | 67.6% | |
Revelation | 0% | 9.4% | 31.9% | |
NT w/o Gospels | 11.0% | 25.4% | 54.9% | |
NT Grand Total | 16.5% | 40.8% | 71.5% | |
http://catholic-resources.org/Lectionary/Statistics.htm
I have not posted the results for the OT but the overall total readings from the OT are 1.0%, 3.7% and 13.5% respectively for the above categories.
If you combine this with the number of Roman Catholic who actually attend Mass the numbers exposed to Scripture dwindle further.
I ask daniel1212 if he could provide Roman Catholic Mass attendance figures.
When the Roman Catholic attempts to minimize the understanding of the Scriptures by Christians they argue from a point of weakness.
Christians are encouraged to study and read the Bible. Some of us have undertaken to learn the original languages of the Scriptures.
I'm currently winding up a Graduate Certificate in Greek Studies. I plan to do an independent study of the Hebrew beginning January.
those who walked and talked with Christ and his successors, hundreds of years before the catholic church put together the very scriptures they declare themselves experts and the only experts on, are to be cast aside as misreading, misinterpreting, or under a delusion of evil...as only certain folks can read scripture, and only these two, and perhaps others, have been the only ones in 2000 years to ask God to come into their hearts so that they truly understand his word...
The Roman Catholic church did not put together the Bible...unless you want to say they did so at Trent.
It is Roman Catholicism that claims to be the sole arbiter of scripture yet when asked for a verse by verse understanding of scripture the Roman Catholic cannot provide one.
You'd think after the "2000" years you claim for Roman Catholicism they'd gotten around to that by now.
Question for you:
Do you independently read/study the Bible?
If so, how do you know your understanding is correct as Rome has not issued a verse by verse exegesis of each text?
We realize that you do not accept the Catholic Mass and Sacraments. Your loss.
As Catholics, we are blessed with the Body and Blood of Jesus at Mass. Our faith in the words of Jesus. A very special gift of the Eucharist from Jesus that we receive at Mass.
Non-Catholics are always welcome at Mass to experience the worship and love of God and to be in His presence.
May God enlighten you to HIS TRUTH.
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