The Biblical Roots of the [Catholic] Liturgy

Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 11-26-17 | Msgr. Charles Pope

[Salvation]

The Biblical Roots of the Liturgy

Msgr. Charles Pope • November 26, 2017 •

Catholics are often unaware just how biblical the Sacred Liturgy is. The design of our traditional churches; the use of candles, incense, and golden vessels; the postures of standing and kneeling; the altar; the singing of hymns; priests wearing albs and so forth are all depicted in the Scriptures. Some of these details were features of the ancient Jewish Temple, but most are reiterated in the Book of Revelation, which describes the liturgy of Heaven.

The liturgy here on earth is modeled after the liturgy in Heaven; that is why it is so serious to tamper with it. The Book of Revelation describes the heavenly liturgy and focuses on a scroll or book that contains the meaning of life and the answers to all we seek. It also focuses on the Lamb of God, standing but with the marks of slaughter upon it. Does this not sound familiar? It is the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

We do well to be aware of the biblical roots of the Sacred Liturgy. Many people consider our rituals to be empty and vain, “smells and bells.” Some think austere liturgical environments devoid of much ritual are “purer” and closer to the worship in “spirit and in truth” that Jesus spoke of in John 4.

To such criticisms we must insist that our rituals, properly understood, are mystical and deeply biblical. Further, they are elements of the heavenly liturgy since almost all of them are mentioned as aspects of the worship or liturgy that takes place in Heaven. In this light, it is a serious mistake to set them aside or have a dismissive attitude toward them.

With that in mind we ought to consider the biblical references to the most common elements of Catholic and Orthodox liturgies. I have added my own occasional note in red.

Candles –

• Rev 1:12-13 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man. In traditional catholic parishes, there are six candles on the high altar and a seventh candle is brought out when the bishop is present.
• Rev 4:6 Seven flaming torches burned in front of the throne.

Altar –

• Rev 9:13 The sixth angel sounded his trumpet, and I heard a voice coming from the horns of the golden altar that is before God.
• Rev 8:3 Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all the saints, on the golden altar before the throne.

Chair –

• Rev 4:1 and lo, a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne! And he who sat there appeared like jasper and carnelian, and round the throne was a rainbow that looked like an emerald …
• Daniel 7:9 As I looked, thrones were placed and one that was ancient of days took his seat; … In the Sacred Liturgy, the chair of the priest is prominent. But, as he takes his seat, we are invited to see not Father Jones, but rather the Lord Himself presiding in our midst.

Priests (elders) in Albs –

• Rev 4:4 the elders sat, dressed in white garments …

Bishop’s miter, priest’s biretta –

• Rev 4:4, 10 With golden crowns on their heads … they cast down their crowns before the throne … In the Liturgy, the Bishop may only wear his miter at prescribed times. But when he goes to the altar he must cast aside his miter. The priest who wears the biretta in the Old Mass is instructed to tip his biretta at the mention of the Holy Name and to lay it aside entirely when he goes to the altar.

Focus on a scroll (book), The Liturgy of the Word –

• Rev 5: 1 And I saw in the right hand of him who was seated on the throne a scroll written within and on the back, sealed with seven seals; and I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?” And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it, and I wept much that no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it. Then one of the elders said to me, “Weep not; lo, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.” In the ancient world, books as we know them now had not been invented. Texts were written on long scrolls and rolled up.

Incense, Intercessory prayer –

• Rev 8:3 another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God …
• Rev 5:7 and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints;

Hymns –

• Rev 5:8 And they sang a new hymn: Worthy are you O Lord to receive the scroll and break open its seals. For you were slain and with your blood you purchase for God men of every race and tongue, and those of every nation.
• Rev 14:1 Then I looked, and lo, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads … and they sing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been redeemed from the earth.
• Rev 15:3 And they (the multitude no one could count) sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, “Great and wonderful are thy deeds, O Lord God the Almighty! Just and true are thy ways, O King of the ages! Who shall not fear and glorify thy name, O Lord? For thou alone art holy. All nations shall come and worship thee, for thy judgments have been revealed.”

Holy, Holy, Holy –

• Rev 4:8 and day and night they never cease to sing, “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty,

Prostration (Kneeling) –

• Rev 4:10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who is seated on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever; they cast their crowns before the throne …
• Rev 5:14 and the elders fell down and worshiped In today’s setting, there is seldom room for everyone to lie prostrate, flat on the ground. Kneeling developed as a practical solution to the lack of space, but it amounts to the same demeanor of humble adoration.

Lamb of God –

• Rev 5:6 And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders, I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain …

Acclamations –

• Rev 5:11 Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!”

Amen! –

• Rev 5:14 And the four living creatures said, “Amen!”

Silence –

• Rev 8:1 When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. ( And you thought your priest paused too long after communion?)

Mary –

• Rev 12:1 And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; 2she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery.

Happy are those called to His “supper” –

• Rev 19:6 Then I heard what seemed to be the voice of a great multitude, like the sound of many waters and like the sound of mighty thunder peals, crying, “Hallelujah! For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns. Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready; … And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.”

Golden vessels, vestments –

• Rev 1:12 And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands,
• Rev 1:13 and among the lampstands was someone “like a son of man,” dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest
• Rev 5:8 the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense
• Rev 8:3 Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all the saints, at the golden altar before the throne.
• Rev 15:16 The angels were dressed in clean, shining linen and wore golden sashes around their chests.
• Rev 15:17 seven golden bowls

Stained Glass –

• Rev 21:10 [The heavenly city] had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, … The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with every jewel; the first was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, the fifth onyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, the twelfth amethyst. ( The image of stained glass in our Church walls is hinted at here.)

Here is but a partial list, except for one quote drawn only from the Book of Revelation. I invite you to add to it.

Here is an awesome video with wonderful quotes:

[Elsie]

Yes; that’s ol’ ET at some of his(?) best stuff!

[ADSUM]

You are entitled to follow your beliefs and question the Catholic Church and follow a man made religion that rejects some of the teachings of Jesus.

I am an active member of the Catholic Church with the Mass and the Sacraments that were established by Jesus Christ and were delegated to the Catholic church by Jesus who promised to be with the Church until the end. At the Mass, the priest representing Jesus consecrates the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. As Catholics, we personally receive Jesus in the Eucharist and we can be with Him and worship Him at a Catholic Church in the Tabernacle or in the Monstrance. We have Faith in Jesus and His Catholic Church. All are welcome, especially the poor and sinners.

Perhaps if you can put aside your biases and look for the Truth, you may be able to answer your own issues.

There are many that have not accepted all of the teachings of Jesus and formed or joined a separate religion and doctrines. While many may have good intentions, are good people and are trying to worship God, they are still rejecting some of the teachings of Jesus. They claim that they have Faith in Jesus, but if they reject some of the teachings of Jesus, do they really have True Faith?

I realize that many have left the Catholic Church and dispute many things about our church and its members. I believe that the Catholic Church is the one holy catholic and apostolic Church established by Jesus Christ. The Catholic church is strong throughout the world.

God’s Peace be with you.

[Elsie]

 

 

THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI

HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY

CHAPTER 16

 

The wicked take the truth to be hard—Lehi’s sons marry the daughters of Ishmael—The Liahona guides their course in the wilderness—Messages from the Lord are written on the Liahona from time to time—Ishmael dies; his family murmur because of afflictions. Between 600 and 592 B.C.

 

 

 1 And it came to pass after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.

  2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ^ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the ^bguilty taketh the ^ctruth to be hard, for it ^dcutteth them to the very center.

  3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might ^awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.

  4 And it came to pass I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.

  5 And it came to pass that they did ^ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.

  6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the ^avalley which he called Lemuel.

  7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, took one of the ^adaughters of Ishmael to ^bwife; and also, my brethren took of the ^cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also ^dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.

  8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the ^acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.

  9 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ^ajourney into the wilderness.

  10 And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round ^aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one ^bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.

  11 And it came to pass that we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take ^aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.

  12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.

  13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place ^aShazer.

  14 And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the ^aRed Sea.

  15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, ^aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.

  16 And we did follow the ^adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.

  17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.

  18 And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine ^asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.

  19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.

  20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did ^amurmur against the Lord.

  21 Now  it came to pass that I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their ^asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.

  22 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto ^acomplaining against the Lord their God.

  23 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did ^amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my ^bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?

  24 And it came to pass that he did ^ainquire of the Lord, for they had ^bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.

  25 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly ^achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.

  26 And it came to pass  that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.

  27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were ^awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.

  28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the ^afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.

  29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us ^aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by ^bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.

  30 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the ^adirections which were given upon the ball.

  31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild ^abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.

  32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained ^afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.

  33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.

  34 And it came to pass that ^aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called ^bNahom.

  35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did ^amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their ^bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did ^cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.

  36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to ^areturn again to Jerusalem.

  37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us ^aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our ^bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.

  38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that ^aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman ^bstir up their hearts to ^canger.

  39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did ^achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.

HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY

CHAPTER 16

 

The wicked take the truth to be hard—Lehi’s sons marry the daughters of Ishmael—The Liahona guides their course in the wilderness—Messages from the Lord are written on the Liahona from time to time—Ishmael dies; his family murmur because of afflictions. Between 600 and 592 B.C.

 

 

 1 And it came to pass after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.

  2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ^ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the ^bguilty taketh the ^ctruth to be hard, for it ^dcutteth them to the very center.

  3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might ^awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.

  4 And it came to pass I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.

  5 And it came to pass that they did ^ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.

  6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the ^avalley which he called Lemuel.

  7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, took one of the ^adaughters of Ishmael to ^bwife; and also, my brethren took of the ^cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also ^dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.

  8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the ^acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.

  9 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ^ajourney into the wilderness.

  10 And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round ^aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one ^bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.

  11 And it came to pass that we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take ^aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.

  12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.

  13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place ^aShazer.

  14 And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the ^aRed Sea.

  15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, ^aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.

  16 And we did follow the ^adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.

  17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.

  18 And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine ^asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.

  19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.

  20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did ^amurmur against the Lord.

  21 Now  it came to pass that I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their ^asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.

  22 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto ^acomplaining against the Lord their God.

  23 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did ^amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my ^bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?

  24 And it came to pass that he did ^ainquire of the Lord, for they had ^bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.

  25 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly ^achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.

  26 And it came to pass  that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.

  27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were ^awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.

  28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the ^afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.

  29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us ^aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by ^bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.

  30 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the ^adirections which were given upon the ball.

  31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild ^abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.

  32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained ^afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.

  33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.

  34 And it came to pass that ^aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called ^bNahom.

  35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did ^amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their ^bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did ^cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.

  36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to ^areturn again to Jerusalem.

  37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us ^aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our ^bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.

  38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that ^aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman ^bstir up their hearts to ^canger.

  39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did ^achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.

[Elsie]

...they are still rejecting some of the teachings of Jesus.

Yeah...

Sure...

---

My Prayer to Our Mother Mary

Hail and praise be unto thee, Mary, whom God Almighty has exalted above all of his other servants!!

God has entrusted us unto your care and graciously grants any request that you make of Him on our behalf, if it is in accordance with His Divine Will.

Our hearts burn with zeal as we honor you, Our Mother.

We love you as a child loves a mother and you love us as mother loves her children.

Please guide us, your little ones, to our Eternal and Almighty Father God through our prayers and through your love for us.

Many in this world may slander and degrade you while still claiming to exalt God, please forgive them and pray for them for they may dishearten your devoted children.

May we be made worthy of the promises of Christ through your prayers.

You love us so freely and we are so unworthy of it.

You love us because God and Christ loved us first.

Mary, Mother, I love you.

Amen.

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[metmom]

Jesus said this....

John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Is not condemned.

Has passed from death to life.

I believe Jesus.

In those verses, Jesus is talking about the PRESENT spiritual condition of the believer, not the future when you find out how well you did. (so some people think)

[metmom]

The word says that the grace of Yehova allowes you to confess sins and be saved through your continuing obedience to his commandments in Faith.

No, that's what Michael Rood says.

What Scripture says is this:

Galatians 3:1-29 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?

Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.

Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

[daniel1212]

You are entitled to follow your beliefs and question the Catholic Church and follow a man made religion that rejects some of the teachings of Jesus.

You are entitled to follow your beliefs and defend the Catholic Church and follow a substantially man made religion that rejects and adds to some of the teachings of Jesus. See how easy making assertions are? The difference is I can substantiate it, and have refuted Catholic attempts to defend her, by the grace of God.

I am an active member of the Catholic Church with the Mass and the Sacraments that were established by Jesus Christ and were delegated to the Catholic church by Jesus who promised to be with the Church until the end. At the Mass, the priest representing Jesus consecrates the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. As Catholics, we personally receive Jesus in the Eucharist and we can be with Him and worship Him at a Catholic Church in the Tabernacle or in the Monstrance. We have Faith in Jesus and His Catholic Church. All are welcome, especially the poor and sinners.

Which is simply repeating a mantra, which may be comforting to your, but is just parroted propaganda in lieu of a polemic.

Perhaps if you can put aside your biases and look for the Truth, you may be able to answer your own issues.

Which recourse to false ad hominem mind reading further testifies to your lack of any prevailing polemic.

There are many that have not accepted all of the teachings of Jesus and formed or joined a separate religion and doctrines. While many may have good intentions, are good people and are trying to worship God, they are still rejecting some of the teachings of Jesus. They claim that they have Faith in Jesus, but if they reject some of the teachings of Jesus, do they really have True Faith?

There are many that have not accepted all of the teachings of Jesus or added to them, and formed a religion with distinctive doctrines not seen in the inspired record of what the NT church believe d. . While many may have good intentions, are good people and are trying to worship God, they are still rejecting and adding some of the teachings of Jesus, which do not stop with the gospels. They claim that they have Faith in Jesus, but if they reject or add to some of the teachings of Jesus, do they really have True Faith?

Again, it is easy to turn your words back on you, but which I can and have substantiated.

I realize that many have left the Catholic Church and dispute many things about our church and its members. I believe that the Catholic Church is the one holy catholic and apostolic Church established by Jesus Christ. The Catholic church is strong throughout the world.

Which continued recourse to bare mantric self-hypnosis testifies to the cultic nature of the very thing you profess in response to what reproves it.

Sorry to be so hard, but its like responding to a robot.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“That what the doctrine of inherited lies says, but it is not what the word of Yehova says.

Dude, you’re in a cult, run by a cultist who thinks he’s a rabbi.

You have no credibility with the Scriptures.

I feel for you, but it’s your call bro

[aMorePerfectUnion]

A nice list of assertions without evidence.

False ones though.

[infool7]

Again, what are your credentials that constitute a valid and respectable authority to make such absurd assumptions?

Anyone can pick parts of Scripture and stich them together to assemble a false gospel that supports faulty premises that ratify their own personal beliefs and actions but to tout them as reasonable or valid to others on a public forum, shameful.

I’m right because I say I’m right.

Infinate loop: see continuous loop

Continuous loop: see infinite loop

It’s a broken record for itching ears.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Again, what are your credentials that constitute a valid and respectable authority to make such absurd assumptions?”

Amazingly, the Bereans didn’t ask that question. They thought for themselves by examining God’s Word.

But of course there are two kinds of people and two responses mentioned...

“Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men.

“But when the Jews from Thessalonica learned that the word of God was proclaimed by Paul at Berea also, they came there too, agitating and stirring up the crowds.”

You need a better question FRamigo...

[metmom]

Jesus never established the mass. There is nothing that He did that even remotely resembles what the mass is today.

[metmom]

There are many that have not accepted all of the teachings of Jesus and formed or joined a separate religion and doctrines. While many may have good intentions, are good people and are trying to worship God, they are still rejecting some of the teachings of Jesus. They claim that they have Faith in Jesus, but if they reject some of the teachings of Jesus, do they really have True Faith?

Matthew 23:1-12 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice.

They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others.

But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

[infool7]

What this has to with the Bereans is quite inconsequential. My own examination of scripture has lead me personally to agree with the Gospel as presented to me by the One, True, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Christ Jesus, the tenants of which I have found to be reliable and trustworthy.

Your “gospel” is significantly different from the one with which I am familiar. It is strange and foreign to the one that I have previously received on good account. I am asking you what your credentials are so that I can assess your credibility. It is quite simple really. If you have nothing better to offer than “because I said so” then I cannot accept your version without putting my own soul in serious peril.

Let me offer an analogy (of which I have been sternly warned against doing but read on at your own discretion)

Take for example the source code for a complex computer operating system that had been written by disciplined and credentialed programmers that used manuals filled with specifications for a particular kind of (CPU)processor and components that met specific requirements and in following those specifications, created, tested and implemented a system that was purchased by millions of customers and used successfully every day for many years.

It is impossible to imagine that undisciplined programmers of unknown and unproven ability, unfamiliar with the specifications, processors and components could, by chopping up and re-arranging bits of source code leaving out most of it, entire modules even and using different processors and compilers could somehow create as elegant, reliable and functional a system as the first group of developers.

This is what you are asking everyone to accept and it leaves me to wonder who it actually is, that is agitating and stirring up the crowds.

[Mark17]

...it sent me to #39

I don’t know why, but it is post 26. 😂

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“What this has to with the Bereans is quite inconsequential.

Perhaps you need to think this through and ask better questions? The bereans were wise enough to check the scriptures to see if what the Apostle told them was true. They were called noble for this.

They did not evaluate Scripture based on what I hey heard. They evaluated what they heard by what God said.

“My own examination of scripture has lead me personally to agree with the Gospel as presented to me by the One, True, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Christ Jesus, the tenants of which I have found to be reliable and trustworthy.”

Here is likely your limitation - confirmation bias, having already concluded that the assertions about Rome are correct.

It is the human condition.

You are in effect truth blind, because you have predecided a definition of truth that is false. However, you cannot see it. A very effective vaccination against being a seeker of truth.

“Your “gospel” is significantly different from the one with which I am familiar.”

Of course it is. Mine comes directly from what God says and not what men in robes told you. I had no predecided limitation other than what God said. This is a wonderful privilege and blessing.

“I am asking you what your credentials are so that I can assess your credibility. It is quite simple really”

It is also not sufficient. People are not saved from the wrath to come based on believing credentials. You will gain eternal life through personal faith in Him alone, as payment for your sins. Your works or sacraments or church will not save you.

A child could read what God says, believe Him fully, and have eternal life. My bride did this at 8 years old.

Conversely, if a child is lied to by well meaning men in robes, he will not be saved.

The only ‘credential’ worth anything is Him and His Word.

And of course reading and hearing without faith will not save you.

[infool7]

I checked a bunch of your links bro. Not one of them worked.

I am sorry that you missed my correction but here it is: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3608266/posts?page=176#176

These links are pretty easy to find but here is another copy of the link just for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_converts_to_the_Catholic_Church

I am impressed that you clicked on some of the links, I am curious as to on which ones you clicked.

[MHGinTN]

Some don’t want to ‘see’ what can contradict what they have placed there trust upon. Broad is the way ...

[infool7]

Here is likely your limitation - confirmation bias, having already concluded that the assertions about Rome are correct.

I think exactly the opposite is true and what your are probably doing is known as projection.

[MHGinTN]

Im two specific passages, we see Peter loosing salvation by faith, first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles. Sadly, the empowerment of a priesthood is not what Jesus was referencing yet the ism of Catholic is all about an empowered priesthood, for worldly power not spiritual LIFE.