Venezuelan Bishops Pray to Virgin Mary to Free the Country from the ‘Claws of Communism’

Breitbart ^ | 2 Aug 2017 | Thomas D. Williams, Ph.D.

[detective]

The Venezuelan Episcopal Conference (CEV) has publicly invoked the intercession of the Virgin Mary to free the nation “from the claws of communism,” in a clear reference to the regime of President Nicolás Maduro.

“Blessed Virgin, Mother of Coromoto, heavenly Patron of Venezuela, free our country from the claws of communism and socialism,” the CEV posted on Twitter this Sunday, complete with an image of Santa Maria and a Venezuelan flag.

[ealgeone]

However I do encourage you -— all of us -— to keep thinking about the distinctions and gradations between these various forms of respect. The lack of distinction and gradation is what causes people to conflate veneration with idolatry.

Mrs.D....you keep trying to advance this false equivalency to justify Roman Catholicism's sanctioning of kneeling before idols of Mary and serving her.

Recall that Peter told Cornelius to get up when Cornelius fell down before him.

Peter didn't have Cornelius kneel before him and kiss his ring finger as we see in modern Roman Catholicism.

The angel told John to get up when he fell down before him.

The angel instructed John to WORSHIP GOD.

[Elsie]

However I do encourage you -— all of us -— to keep thinking about the distinctions and gradations between these various forms of respect. The lack of distinction and gradation is what causes people to conflate veneration with idolatry.

“Woman, what does this have to do with me?"

[Elsie]

The angel instructed John to WORSHIP GOD.

"But you can Venerate and Hyperdulia and Honor others."
--Rome

[ravenwolf]

I would strongly dispute the idea that “very little truth comes from ritual” as you said.

---

You might be more right than me on that point, the truth has a way of finding us from strange places.

I am simply saying that the word of God should not be taught based on my or your experience on what the truth is but by Gods word only and he put what he wanted in the Bible.

I believe every one should read the Bible only and then draw their own conclusions.

The members of a Church i once went to was doing a ritual one evening, the preacher knew that it was my first time there so he explained that the ritual they were doing was not in the Bible but it was just something they wanted to do.

I really appreciated that simple honesty.

[Mrs. Don-o]

You have an amiable way of expressing your point of view, and I appreciate that.

My husband and I were just discussing that verse from Isaiah 55, where the Lord says, “My ways are not your ways, nor are my thoughts your thoughts. For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so high are my ways above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts.”

It’s always good go remember, especially when we sparring FReepers have a difference of opinion, that the Lord is way, way above all of us.

And HE is ALL good.

Thank God for that!!

[Mrs. Don-o]

Yeah, and then after He said that, look what He did!

Just about 150 gallons of the best wine you ever tasted. None o’ that watered-down stuff.

(”As it is written, ‘Honor thy mother.’”

“Thanks, Son.”)

[af_vet_1981]

I understand the Greek of Romams 3:23.....all means all.

I count seven instances of "all" (כָּל) and one of "perfect" (תָּמִים) in the text.

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch. And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits. A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it. And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee. And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female. Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive. And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them. Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.

Genesis, Catholic chapter six, Protestant verses one to twenty two,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

[metmom]

Jesus Himself said there was no one greater born among men than John the Baptist.

The exaltation of Mary as the greatest, sinless, ever virgin, is all Catholics fabrication and fantasy, with NO basis whatsoever in reality.

She is NOT everyone’s mother, there is no Scriptural support for that ANYWHERE. She is not a redemtrix nor a medatrix.

She was a normal, sinful human being who was honored to fill the role of bearing and helping raise the Messiah. But she is not worthy of special honor for doing what she was called to do by God.

[metmom]

No mention of Her having sinned, is there, cherry-picker?

Yes, in the admission BY HER, that she needed a savior.

Besides, there are a lot of figures in Scripture that it's never recorded that they sinned. Are we supposed to presume that because it's not mentioned that they never did?

[metmom]

Mary of the Bible certainly did have other children...

Matthew 1:18-25 Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit. And her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to divorce her quietly.

But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us). When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

Psalm69:8 I have become a stranger to my brothers, an alien to my mother's sons.

Matthew 1:24-25 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

Matthew 12:46-47 While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.”

Matthew 13:55 “Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?”

Mark 6:2-3 And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, “Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands?”... “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?”

John 2:12 After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days.”

Acts 1:14 These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.

1 Corinthians 9:4-5 Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?

Galatians 1:19 But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother.

Strong's Concordance

http://biblehub.com/greek/80.htm

adelphos: a brother

Original Word: ἀδελφός, οῦ, ὁ

Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine

Transliteration: adelphos

Phonetic Spelling: (ad-el-fos')

Short Definition: a brother

Definition: a brother, member of the same religious community, especially a fellow-Christian.

Here is a link to the occurrences of the Greek word *adelphos*.

http://biblehub.com/greek/80.htm

The word *sister* (adelphe) in the Greek is the same.

http://biblehub.com/greek/79.htm

The word used is *brother* not *cousin*.

It can't mean a member of the same religious community in the context in which they occur, because then that would mean every man in Israel could be identified as Jesus' brother. So that would not identify Jesus as anyone in particular's brother.

It's not going to mean *brother in Christ* as that concept was not yet in place and the Jews, who knew Jesus as a Jew and knew His brothers as Jews, would not even begin to understand the new birth and what being in Christ meant.

They didn't even understand who JESUS was, much less being a *brother in Christ*.

The only definition left then, is to mean physical brother.

And it would not be *cousin*.

The word for *relative* that is used for Elizabeth is *suggenes*, not *adelphe*.

http://biblehub.com/greek/4773.htm

Strong's Concordance

suggenes: akin, a relative

Original Word: συγγενής, ές

Part of Speech: Adjective

Transliteration: suggenes

Phonetic Spelling: (soong-ghen-ace')

Short Definition: akin, a relative

Definition: akin to, related; subst: fellow countryman, kinsman.

[metmom]

No, He doesn't, not with heretics.

Then I guess the Jesus you believe in is not the Jesus of Scripture.

The Jesus in the Bible was not some spiritual elitist who hung around with the pharisees.

[metmom]

You don’t know a lot facts. That may be why you’re not a Catholic, yet.

I know the facts and that's WHY I'm NOT a Catholic any more.

[Elsie]

“My ways are not your ways, nor are my thoughts your thoughts.

Yet Rome wants to tell everyone just what GOD's thoughts REALLY are.

[Elsie]

“Thanks, Son.”)

Really?

Putting words into MARY's mouth?

Shameful!

[Elsie]

Just about 150 gallons of the best wine you ever tasted. None o’ that watered-down stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZewqHNrw1kk&feature=youtu.be&t=43

[Mrs. Don-o]

Heh!

[ravenwolf]

that the Lord is way, way above all of us.

And HE is ALL good.

---

That is for sure, what ever else Believers may disagree on we have that in common.

We have the same God and we have the same saviour.

[Mrs. Don-o]

We worship only God--- giving Him ONLY the adoration due to the Supreme Being, Creator and Ruler of ALL.

Those who think differently are misinformed.

The Biblical view recognizes that "bowing", including kneeling and prostrating, can be civil or even courtly gestures, OR signs of (non-adoration) respect to holy persons, places or things, and distinguishes between that and "bowing" as idolatry or adoration.

Carefully consider the distinction exemplified so many times in the Sacred Text. I'm going to list some examples, but first I want to ask the relevant questions:

1. In your view, do all of these bows and prostrations constitute a violation of the First Commandment?
   • If YES, why are these bows/prostrations so often repeated by righteous people, and never condemned in context?

   • If NO, why is this NOT a violation of the First Commandment?

2. Is this analogous to the "Gaia" example which I think you read? (I sent you the example of the woman who misinterpreted a common gesture at a Shape Note Singing.)

---

OK, here's the Biblical behavior. It permeates Old Testament culture in terms of how righteous people act:

---

Genesis 23:7 Then Abraham rose and bowed down before the people of that land

Genesis 33:3-7 Jacob bowed down to the ground seven times as he approached his brother Esau

maidservants and their children bow down to Esau

Leah and her children bow down

Joseph and Rachel bow. Etc!

Genesis 37 Joseph’s dreams: his brothers’ sheaves of corn -— and then the sun and moon and eleven stars —— bow down to him. Later his brothers actually do bow down to him with their faces to the ground

Genesis 48:11 Joseph bows to Jacob “with his face to the earth.”

1 Kings 1:15 Bathsheba bows low (face to the ground) and kneels before the aged king David

2 Kings 1:13 the captain kneels before the prophet Elijah, and “prays” —begs-— him to spare his life and the life of his 50 men

Moses bows down to father-in-law; Ruth bows down to Boaz;

David prostrates before Jonathan;

David prostrates to Saul;

Abigail prostrates to David;

Saul prostrates to Samuel;

Nathan prostrates to David;

Obadiah bows to the ground before Elijah;

the prophets in Jericho bow before Elisha;

the “whole assembly” bows low and prostrates before David;

David bows to the Temple;

David prostrates to Jerusalem;

God causes the king’s adversaries to bow prostrate on the ground and “lick the dust at his feet”;

the sons of the oppressors will bow to Zion.

OK, pretty obviously the patriarchs, prophets, and kings knew about the commandment not to bow down and worship anything or anybody but God. But here they are bowing, kneeling, and prostrating, and God is not offended. Why?

Because the commandment clearly forbids bowing and worshiping a creature as the Creator; it does not forbid kneeling or bowing (to king, prophet, father, husband or brother) as a form of honor.

The commandment does not prohibit kneeling or bowing to give honor. It prohibits adoration toward anyone but Almighty God.

Now here’s an interesting episode:

1 Kings 2:19
When Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, the king stood up to meet her, bowed down to her and sat down on his throne. He had a throne brought for the king’s mother, and she sat down at his right hand.

Here’s the King bowing to his mother. Does that mean she’s equal to God? No. It doesn’t even mean she’s equal to the King. It means he’s pleased to honor her because of her royal dignity, her relationship as Queen Mother.

As our mindset gets further and further from traditional custom and culture, it gets harder and harder to grasp what was once the universal language of physical gesture (he salute, the tip of the hat, the bow, the genuflection, the handclasp, the curtsy, the kiss) and put each expression in its proper perspective.

What do we learn from the Biblical examples?

[Mrs. Don-o]

That’s what Christians can do who rely on Divine Revelation.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I? Who said I was putting this in Mary's mouth? It seems you've assumed that from the context clues. Tch!

Probably because it was a resaonable assumption!