Question: "Can a Christian lose salvation?"

gotquestions.org ^ | unknown | Got Questions Ministries

[kosciusko51]

I ask the question as unfettered free will is believed to be by some necessary to love and worship God, and without it, we are just automatons. So, to those who believe this, I would like to know if they believe that same free will exists in heaven, and if not, how do they reconcile it.

[kosciusko51]

Well said!

[Elsie]

Salvation is not determined until one’s final personal judgement before Jesus Christ at one’s death.

ET; you'd best phone home; for the Book your organization put together long ago states otherwise!

---

Revelation 20:11-15
"Then I saw a great White Throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED. Another book was opened WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE.

 

Your name gets written here BEFORE the judgment.  The book is merely checked to PROVE IT!

[MHGinTN]

It would appear that certain religions do not read the Prodigal Son story in the Bible they claim to have given to mankind. OR, if read to them, it is twisted to produce a different message than what The Author of the story was teaching.

[kosciusko51]

Mixed multitudes. Goats and sheep. Wheat and tares. Four type of soil. Time shows the true nature of each, but it does not change it.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Paul’s letter to the Corinthians did not make being “carnal” a normative condition. There is no such category as “carnal Christian.”

Paul recognized carnality as a condition that actually existed in the Church.
It is never Gid’s ideal, but it is a reality for some believers.
Paul never describes these believers as losing their salvation.
There are the consequences of loss of rewards and a wasted life.

“Do you think God will allow His true children to live in sin? to live a “carnal” life? to go on sinning, without correcting it?”

Exactly. God chastens only his sons. They remain sons.

“And even in the case of more egregious sin Paul was addressing in Corinth, it was unthinkable that this could continue to go on.”

And yet it did so - that Paul took the next step, allowing the believer to be turned over to Satan with the hope of restoration of fellowship with the church and an obedient life in the future.

“So, yes, even Christians can commit very serious sins. But true, born-again believers can not continue in sin.”

Yet some do.

“Because it is possible for people to be convinced they are “Christian,” but actually be on their way to hell.”

Of course they can. This isn’t germane to the discussion of whether believers can live apart from active fellowship with God.

“Assurance is based in the evidences of being a true believer.”

Assurance is based on the sufficiency of Christ’s total payment of sin.

” It is never based merely on having said a prayer to receive Christ.”

Obviously.

“The test is having fruit, transformation, obedience, continuing in the faith, and an awareness of the indwelling Holy Spirit.”

Bearing fruit via the new Life of Christ inside is normative. It does not rule out times of living apart from God due to sin. Nor is bearing fruit equally in every season normative.

“So I return to my original point. A Christian is not someone who has merely, at some time or another, made some sort of decision for Christ”

Again, obvious, but different point.

“Because it is possible for people to be convinced they are “Christian,” but actually be on their way to hell.”

You seem to be arguing accurately, we’re we discussing the basis of salvation dear FRiend. In this thread, we are discussing the blessed assurance of a true believing Christian.

“People who profess faith in Christ but remain in sin, bear no fruit to God, demonstrate no grief over sin, but stubborn persistence in sin, are headed for hell.”

You can only see the outside, but not whether the Life of Christ is now present in the heart. You can guess and form a judgmental opinion, but god knows and we do not.

“Those who think they are just “carnal Christians” who will just miss out on some rewards but will escape hell because of the fire at the bema judgement need to realize they are LOST and still need to repent and believe the Gospel.”

Perhaps yes. Perhaps no. God knows the truth. We do not.

Best

[af_vet_1981]

“Losing one’s salvation” is just another way of saying they were never saved in the first place.

No, it is not; that would be a circular fallacy.

Take His warnings seriously.

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

...

Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

...

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

...

Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

First Corinthians, Catholic chapter ten, Protestant verses one to twelve,

Hebrews, Catholic chapter three, Protestant verses seven to nineteen and Catholic chapter four, Protestant verse one,

Hebrews, Catholic chapter six, Protestant verses one to twelve,

Philippians, Catholic chapter three, Protestant verses thirteen to fifteen,

as authorized, but not authored, by King James

[Elsie]

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life

[Arthur McGowan]

You are as witty as ever.

[MHGinTN]

See 1 Cor 5; you are contradicting what Paul taught those Christians at Corinth.

[Elsie]

You may not get many responders to your question.

I think they are still working on the amount of angels that can dance on a pin head problem.

[MHGinTN]

Empowerment of Catholicism relies on that error quite heavily, for those convinced of that deceit are ever relying on the Org torenew them to GOD and never get it that faith in Christ Jesus has freed them from the Nicolaitan hierarchical enslavement.

[kosciusko51]

My question is more germane to the question than angels dancing on the heads of pins, for if we are predestined, then none of the elect can lose their salvation; but if free will is necessary to love God in this life (which would allow for people to lose their salvation), why is it not in the next?

[MHGinTN]

If you are planning on being in the sorting at The Great White Throne you are not yet born from above. Stop fiddling around and confess The Lord Jesus died for you in particular and shut up long enough for GOD to birth you into HIS family, so you will not be attending the GWT for sorting but as family witness to the Righteous Judgment of GOD.

[MHGinTN]

and AMEN.

[MHGinTN]

Beautifully explained! Thanks so much for joining the discussion. Selah!

[circlecity]

"No, it is not; that would be a circular fallacy."

No, the concept of losing one's salvation is a circular fallacy. Since God sees the end, why would he "save" someone he knows he's going to "unsave" later? What was accomplished? - nothing. The person was never saved.

[metmom]

The verse in Hebrews makes salvation a one shot deal. You blow it and you’re done for good. Can’t be saved again. Do you agree with that?

The verse in Matthew 24 is about the Tribulation period and is not applicable to someone who is saved by grace through faith in the church age. That verse has been misapplied by some religious institutions to hang a person’s salvation over their head.

12 Peter 2 may not even mean actual believers, but those who have been exposed to the Truth of the gospel and choose to reject it.

2 Timothy 2 Peter denied Christ and what was Jesus’ response?

James 5 is a tough one and could make a case for your point. I’d be interested in other’s take on it.

Colossians 1 doesn’t say the person wasn’t saved but that they will not be able to stand before God holy, blameless, and above reproach. IOW, standing before the judgment seat of Christ, they will hang their heads in shame for not living as they should have.

Galatians 4 talks about falling back into legalism. Doesn’t say the person isn’t saved any more.

Revelation 2 was written to the church body, not the individual believer.

[MHGinTN]

Here is wisdom!

[metmom]

I ask the question as unfettered free will is believed to be by some necessary to love and worship God, and without it, we are just automatons. So, to those who believe this, I would like to know if they believe that same free will exists in heaven, and if not, how do they reconcile it.

Interesting because I don't believe in free will.

We are either slaves to sin or slaves to God.

No one is a completely free and independent entity but God alone.

That said, even supposing that I had totally free will in the matter of getting saved and staying saved, I would gladly surrender that right to God once I got saved so as to not ever risk taking that free will and choosing against Him.

I would be and am happy to have Him seal me and protect me from myself, from my own stubborn nature and tendency to rebel and if possible, to do something so stupid as to turn my back on Him at the cost of my own soul.