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To: daniel1212
2. No Jewish or Christian prayer to Heaven is ever recorded in Scripture that addresses anyone but God.

False, as post 61 demonstrates.
102 posted on 04/29/2017 8:00:16 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981; daniel1212; aMorePerfectUnion

You think 'Abraham's bosum' was talking explicitly of Heaven? To take on a view such as that one would need to have converted a compartment of Sheol --- a "place of waiting" said to be part of and within the underworld --- into being Heaven itself. Wowza.

Did you know that a portion of present-day Catechism of the Catholic Church rather supports the notion of an underworld separated into differing parts -- and one of those parts, it is related there, to have been "Abraham's bosum"?

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1R.HTM;

Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell" - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God. Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into "Abraham's bosom": "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Saviour in Abraham's bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell." Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.

In the example that you had cited from Scripture, what is being discussed involves a man in a place of torment -- in hell, could it be said? --- who was not praying to anyone then presently at that time, necessarily in Heaven, at all(!), and perhaps more importantly, if we are to reference the same passages seeking guidance for how to pray, it should be noticed that the prayer entirely failed. Not exactly the kind of scriptural support & recommendation that would be required in order for yourself to falsify a statement made by daniel1212. That statement here again, was;


119 posted on 04/30/2017 3:19:14 AM PDT by BlueDragon
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To: af_vet_1981
2. No Jewish or Christian prayer to Heaven is ever recorded in Scripture that addresses anyone but God.

False, as post 61 demonstrates.

What? How does communication btwn to persons in the same realm outside of Heaven translate into praying to invisible created beings in Heaven from earth??? Unlike God, who alone is shown able to hear all prayer in Heaven, I only see two-way communication btwn other persons as both somehow actually being in the same realm, and apparently visibly so as i recall.

But Lk. 16:19-31 is indeed a powerful true story. May none go there.

135 posted on 04/30/2017 5:33:56 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: af_vet_1981
False, as post 61 demonstrates.
 
 
 
Genesis 33:11  King James Version (KJV)

11 Take, I pray thee, my blessing that is brought to thee; because God hath dealt graciously with me, and because I have enough. And he urged him, and he took it.

 

Genesis 33:11  Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

11 And take the blessing, which I have brought thee, and which God hath given me, who giveth all things. He took it with much ado at his brother's earnest pressing him,

 

 

Shall I look up and see how Rome translated the Luke 'story' posted in reply #61??? 

(Vet posted the PROT version)  Luke, Catholic chapter sixteen, Protestant verses nineteen to thirty one,  as authorized, but not authored, by King James

(you KNOW I will!  ;^)

 

 

 

Luke 16:19-31    Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

19 There was a certain rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen; and feasted sumptuously every day.

20 And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores,

21 Desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table, and no one did give him; moreover the dogs came, and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell.

23 And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom:

24 And he cried, and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame.

25 And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazareth evil things, but now he is comforted; and thou art tormented.

26 And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you, cannot, nor from thence come hither.

27 And he said: Then, father, I beseech thee, that thou wouldst send him to my father's house, for I have five brethren,

28 That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments.

29 And Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance.

31 And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.

225 posted on 04/30/2017 5:01:09 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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