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To: af_vet_1981; Mark17
Works, works, works ... These are the works. Notice the Messiah does not ask who believed in Him. Calvinism is not the criteria.

No, no, no. I wonder if you stop to consider a few points about that passage of Jesus' words?

Point 1: Those being judged were ALREADY either sheep or goats. The judgment wasn't to turn them into one or the other but to separate them.

Point 2: This final judgment takes place AFTER the Tribulation. The Judgment seat of Christ has already happened.

Point 3: Those who were the "sheep" didn't knowingly do their good works for those who were hungry, thirsty, naked, sick or imprisoned - they were the natural actions of spirit-led believers who lived holy, obedient lives out of gratitude for God's grace.

Point 4: Those who were the "goats" didn't knowingly NOT minister to the lowly. They treated everyone the same because their hearts were evil and unregenerated by the Holy Spirit. They did not accept the grace of God. They probably were like that other group Jesus spoke about in Matthew 7 who on the day of judgment wailed, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?", and to whom Jesus said, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.". They LACKED saving faith and the works they did were in their own power to establish their own righteousness instead of receiving the righteousness of Christ which is by faith.

The Messiah didn't have to ask who believed in Him, He already knew. I marvel when people quote passages such as this as if it contradicts the multitude of verses that say we are saved by grace through faith and not by works. Scripture doesn't contradict itself - one just needs to read what God says in context and in view of the rest of Divinely-revealed Scripture.

213 posted on 04/13/2017 9:21:29 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums; metmom; MHGinTN
Preach it sister. Yes, the goats standing before God, are not there to determine whether they are going to Heaven or Hell. I think it is to determine the amount of punishment they will get in Hell. What a terrifying moment for millions, all spiritually dead. Some having created false, works based religions. Others, followers of the same. Again, we are not discussing brain surgery here. It REALLY is simple, but so simple, that only spiritually alive people can figure it out. You can take that to the bank. 💰
216 posted on 04/13/2017 10:22:34 PM PDT by Mark17 (Genesis chapter 1 verse 1. In the beginning GOD....And the rest, as they say, is history)
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To: boatbums

Context is something alien to Roman Catholicism.


222 posted on 04/14/2017 4:01:29 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: boatbums
The Judgment seat of Christ has already happened.

When?

Where??

239 posted on 04/14/2017 4:59:29 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: boatbums; MHGinTN; Mark17
"And before him shall be gathered all nationsG1484: and he shall separate them onenation from anothernation, as a shepherd divideth his flock(s) ofsheep from the flock(s) ofgoats: . . ." (Mat 25:32 AV).
. . .
"Then shall the King say unto themnations on his right hand, Come, ye* blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdomon earth prepared for you* from the foundation of the world: . . ." (Mat 25:34 AV).
. . .
"Then shall he say also unto themnations on the left hand, Depart from me, ye* cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: . . ." (Mat 25:41 AV).
=====

Notes:

Strong's Number G1484

ἔθνος
ethnos
eth'-nos
Strong's Definition:
Probably from G1486; a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe;
specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan): -
Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

Thayer's Definition:
1) a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together
. . 1a) a company, troop, swarm
2) a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus
. . 2a) the human family
3) a tribe, nation, people group
4) in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles
5) Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians
Part of Speech: noun neuter
-------
nation = a geopolitical and/or cultural entity consisting of many individuals incorporated and governed under its hegemony

* = second person plural

=========

These verses are from a parable of Jesus, a passage couched in figurative-literal language. The use by Jesus of "ethnos" is as a metonomy, specifically a synecdoche, in which the people of a cultural entity are represented by the word describing the whole (also used the same way in Mt. 28:19). The AV correctly and definitively represents the conjugation of verbs by using "thee, thou, thine" in translation of the second person singular, and "ye, you, yours" for the second person plural.

Furthermore, pronouns referring to nouns will in Greek be of the same number and gender. In verse 34, "them," (τοις) is dative case, plural, and may be masculine or neuter (in this case neuter). So it is more than one nation "on His right hand," that is, favored by Him. "Them" does not refer to individual persons, it refers to a plurality of geopolitical entities, probably not to cultural entities for reason that there will be no competitive "religion" after this judgment of nations. Likewise, in verse 34, "them" (τοις) also dative, plural, and neuter, refers to disapproved "national" entities, not persons.

What we are presented here is a judgment occurring just after the conclusion of the Great Tribulation, the consignment of two of the unholy trinity to the Lake of Fire (Rev. 19:20), the banishment of Satan to the bottomless pit (Rev. 20:1-3), but before the setting up of Christ's thousand-year earthly Kingdom (Rev. 20:4-5).

Some more conclusions may be drawn from this, but all that is being suggested here is that the judgment here is not of individuals per se, it perhaps is the identification of geopolitical entities just prior to, present during, or remaining at the conclusion of the seven-year Tribulation, whose geographical divisions and mechanics of government are already set up so that they will be acceptable and not confusing to the remaining unsaved humans at the inauguration of Christ's Kingdom of Righteousness and Peace.

That would provide a context of familiarity from which to proceed in revising the customs, habits, and languages of the people now subjugated to the earthly rule of Christ's Viceroy, His regal ancestor David bar Jesse.

In this diagram, the point noted by "1C" is the time of the Judgment of Nations:

The Mystery of the Grave and Hell photo Grave-Chart_zpsac979ca2.jpg

A fuller description of this chart can be found at:

The Kingdom of Heaven and The Kingdom of Go

259 posted on 04/14/2017 10:34:41 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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