Aw... shucks...
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Posted on 04/10/2017 6:40:46 PM PDT by fishtank
Evangelical Apologist Hank Hanegraaff Converts to Eastern Orthodoxy
Posted by: Rob Bowman
On Palm Sunday, April 9, 2017, Hank Hanegraaff formally joined the Orthodox Church. Since 1989 Hanegraaff has been the President of the Christian Research Institute (CRI) and (since ca. 1992) the host of CRI’s Bible Answer Man radio program.[1] Hank, his wife Kathy, and two of their twelve children were inducted by a sacramental rite called chrismation into the Orthodox faith at St. Nektarios Greek Orthodox Church in Charlotte, North Carolina, near where CRI is based. In chrismation, a baptized individual is anointed with oil in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.[2]
(Excerpt) Read more at religiousresearcher.org ...
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No mention in NT of receiving the HS by oil.
Laying on of hands is the only one I can find.
Oil is for a healing.
Luther Attacks the Mass
Upon the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the most sacred action of the Church, Luther showered vulgar contempt.
He said that no sin of immorality, nay even of “manslaughter, theft, murder and adultery is so harmful as this abomination of the Popish Mass.” He further snarled that he would have “rather kept a bawdy house or been a robber than to have blasphemed and traduced Christ for fifteen years by saying the Masses.”3
In his pamphlet The Abrogation of the Mass, aimed at destroying the Mass, Luther wrote:
“I am convinced that by these three arguments [that he had made previously] every pious conscience will be persuaded that this priest of the Mass and the papacy is nothing but a work of satan, and will be sufficiently warned against imagining that by these priests anything pious or good is effected. All will now know that these sacrificial Masses have been proven injurious to Our Lord’s testament and that therefore nothing in the whole world is to be hated and loathed so much as the hypocritical shows of this priesthood, its Masses, its worship, its piety, its religion. It is better to be a public pander or robber than one of these priests.”4
The great St. John Fisher, who lived at the time of Luther, expressed horror at Luther’s impiety: “My God!” he wrote, “How can one be calm when one hears such blasphemous lies uttered against the mysteries of Christ? How can one without resentment listen to such outrageous insults hurled against God’s priests? Who can read such blasphemies without weeping from sheer grief if he still retains in his heart even the smallest spark of Christian piety?”5
http://www.cfnews.org/page88/files/fa8c037411e42c031cd7802e9d2c2781-644.html
In other paces laying on of hands and impartation of the Holy Ghost are not connected. From what I see, laying on of hands could be associated with healing (Elijah, Jesus, Paul, James?) or as a form of commedation or ordination (1 Tim. 4:14, 2 Tim. 1:6-7)
No E-meters for you, but a REAL tax dude: knockin’ at your door - ala Luke 18:9-14 - sicced on to you by the Pharisee!
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Laying on of hands is specifically the transfer of the power of the spirit, and absolutely nothing else.
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Respectfully, your first move would be to look at the actual texts of the actual Mass.
Your second move would be to check the Catechism, which is online in several places and searchable by keyword. I would say not to scan it superficially for short pull-quotes, but read receptively by paragraphs and sections.
The third --- if you're willing to invest the time and thought --- is to read a real expert on liturgy, such as:
The Spirit of the Liturgy (available used for under $5, and there are chunks of it free online)
"His [Fr. O'Brien's] book was noted to be without error."
I am guessing you mean there was an Imprimatur and/or a Nihil Obstat? (Yes?)
This does not mean it was without error in the sense of "dogmatically defined" or "infallible" It means that, with certain allowances for individual style and emphasis, and in the large context, without the precision expected in a magisterial document (and this priest's book is not a magisterial document) --- and in the view of the Bishop or Censor Librorum --- it can be read in an orthodox sense.
It does not mean even that the Bishop or Censor Librorum agrees with all the opinions expressed therein, only that it has not been judged formal heresy. I will explain that a little better below.
You mentioned, in your previous remarks, that "some writers in Catholicism that tell us we can go to Mary to get things done or prayers answered when Jesus is being to slow or says no."
I've seen that too, but I think it is this priest's particular rather sentimental angle, maybe influenced by Jesus' parable on the persistent widow in Luke 18:
Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. He said: “In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought. And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’In this parable, the widow is a "picture" of the faithful one who is persistent in prayer, and the reluctant judge is a "picture" of God!! Now I think you will agree with me, that Jesus does not actually mean that His Father is really reluctant, let alone unjust. But he still praises the widow for getting in his face.“For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care what people think, yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually come and attack me!’” And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night?
It would be wrong to say that God needs our advice, our prodding, our reminders, our foolish attempts to set His agenda, when we make our prayers of supplication. But still, Jesus says in this parable to pray for what we need, and to pray with bold, repetitive importuning.
A similar thing can be said about intercessory prayer, whether we are asking for the intercessions of the saints on earth or in heaven. Why would you ask for prayers from, say, your pastor or your mother? Is it because God won't listen to yours? Or has listened but refused your requests? Or is it because you believe, with St. James, that we should ...
"...pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective."God bless you, ealgeone.
Is this true, doctrinally, or not? Give a Scriptural reference that unquestionably, without the shadow of a doubt, supports your conclusion.
Well; it says RIGHT here that...
Luke 24:49
And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. and don't forget the oil.
1 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them. and 3 rolls of Bounty were used to wipe the excess oil from the tables. (Not found in ALL old manuscripts.)
I think you will be interested in this:
#509 Though I may sometimes express myself clumsily, please read in a charitable sense. Thank you.
I hear ya; Sister!!
"One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved, in which the priest himself is the sacrifice, Jesus Christ, whose body and blood are truly contained in the sacrament of the altar under the species of bread and wine; the bread (changed) into His body by the divine power of transubstantiation, and the wine into the blood, so that to accomplish the mystery of unity we ourselves receive from His (nature) what He Himself received from ours."
--Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV (A.D. 1215)
Heck; some folks get upset when ya tell the TRUTH about their choice of religions!
Likewise MHGinTN, I consider you might be a REALLY good neighbor and, what's much more, a fellow-Christian; but you have to stop saying things about other Christians that are TRUE, and 10 minutes' worth of research in the Bible that Rome assembled compared to the CC would have shown that to you.
Thanks for that, tolerably good FReeper
Do you like it when I post complete conversations that Jesus has with folks?
They come from the Book that Rome assembled you know.
25 When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”
26 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’[c]”
32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
Seems an apt description to me!
Could you explain to us non-Catholics what an INFORMAL heresy might be?
You may use Rome's teaching if you wish.
You are welcome.
Now about those 7 Catholic churches that the angel told John to write to...
I sure hope they listened to St. John's Apostolic corrections.
One good take-away lesson from thus section of Sacred Scripture is: Thank God for the faithful hierarchs like John.
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