The Humility of Jesus' Self-Emptying

Upstream, there is mention of texts that support Yeshua's siblings were in fact from Joseph's previous wife. So there is perhaps possible collaboration of Joseph being a bit older than Mary.

Extraneous sources not considered to be inspired.

Amazing how people want to disregard the clear meaning of the texts in the NT that indicate Jesus had brothers and sisters and they were from Joseph and Mary.

61 posted on 03/23/2017 9:52:41 AM PDT by ealgeone

Dan, being specific, for a moment, on the doctrine of salvation, Tobias 12:8-9, is an outright distortion of salvation by grace. It ain't gonna cut the mustard. In this case, I throw the baby out with the bath water. If the Apocrypha can't be trusted in the most important doctrine of all, Heaven or Hell, why should I be concerned with anything it has to say? The answer is, I am NOT concerned with it. If others are, that's on them, but I don't think of it as being inspired.
It might have some literary value, and contain some nice stories, but to trust it as God's inspired word? Not a snow balls chance. Keep up the good work bro.

62 posted on 03/23/2017 9:58:38 AM PDT by Mark17 (20 years a USAF Air Traffic Controller, RETIRED. A career that will make you old before your time)

Because if YOU had ever read IT, you'd know that it is a very detailed OT, though never affirmed by Jewish scholars, it's a damn good read, and offers quite a bit of insight into areas the OT skips through.

It's beginning to sound like the UU is right after all...

63 posted on 03/23/2017 3:19:19 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

What's needed is evidence that contradicts those "specific" ages given,

Why?

Hasn't COMMON SENSE shown how bogus they are?

What's needed is evidence that CONFIRMS those ages given; then perhaps your ';argument' might gain some reality traction!!!

64 posted on 03/23/2017 3:22:14 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

So there is perhaps possible collaboration of Joseph being a bit older than Mary.

HMMMmmm...

'A bit' is WAY different sounding than 76 years!!!

65 posted on 03/23/2017 3:23:19 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

<>... also Paul who writes in Timothy that ALL scripture/texts should be used to understand the Word - paraphrasing.

Kindly UNparaphase and give a source for your assertion.

66 posted on 03/23/2017 3:25:07 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

There are multiple versions of the ‘Book of Jasher’ and there are many such Jewish texts, such as Midrash Tanchuma or Yalkut Shimoni, etc.

67 posted on 03/23/2017 3:31:08 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")

To: Mark17; teppe; StormPrepper; Normandy

...and I don't accept ANY of their writings to be God's words.

Now, now...

Ol' Joe used a LOT of 'TRUE scripture'!

He merely ran it though the blender of his mind; added a few things he THOUGHT 'god' said to him and VIOLA! He has the RESTORE gospel! Another GOSPEL!!

See some differences between GOD's Word and the Joseph Smith's 'translation'

Color coding explanation:

Added stuff... Changed stuff... Rearranged stuff... Removed stuff...

*(UNDERLINED stuff is the DISTRACTING reference on every tenth word or so that infuses LDS 'scripture' online.)

JOSEPH SMITH—MATTHEW

An extract from the translation of the Bible as revealed to Joseph Smith the Prophet in 1831: Matthew 23: 39 and chapter 24.

Jesus foretells the impending destruction of Jerusalem—He also discourses on the second coming of the Son of Man, and the destruction of the wicked.

1 ^aFor I say unto you, that ye shall not see me henceforth and know that I am he of whom it is written by the prophets, until ye shall say: Blessed is he who ^bcometh in the name of the Lord, in the clouds of heaven, and all the holy angels with him. Then understood his disciples that he should come again on the earth, after that he was glorified and ^ccrowned on the right hand of God.

2 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple; and his disciples came to him, for to ^ahear him, saying: Master, show us concerning the buildings of the temple, as thou hast said—They shall be thrown down, and left unto you desolate.

3 And Jesus said unto them: See ye not all these things, and do ye not understand them? Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here, upon this temple, one ^astone upon another that shall not be thrown down.

4 And Jesus left them, and went upon the Mount of Olives. And as he sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying: Tell us when shall these things be which thou hast said concerning the destruction of the temple, and the Jews; and what is the ^asign of thy ^bcoming, and of the ^cend of the world, or the destruction of the ^dwicked, which is the end of the world?

5 And Jesus answered, and said unto them: Take heed that no man deceive you;

6 For many shall come in my name, saying—I am ^aChrist—and shall deceive many;

7 Then shall they deliver you up to be ^aafflicted, and shall kill you, and ye shall be ^bhated of all nations, for my name’s sake;

8 And then shall many be ^aoffended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another;

9 And many ^afalse prophets shall arise, and shall deceive many;

10 And because iniquity shall abound, the ^alove of many shall wax cold;

11 But he that remaineth ^asteadfast and is not overcome, the same shall be saved.

12 When you, therefore, shall see the ^aabomination of ^bdesolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, concerning the destruction of ^cJerusalem, then you shall stand in the ^dholy place; whoso readeth let him understand.

13 Then let them who are in Judea flee into the ^amountains;

14 Let him who is on the housetop flee, and not return to take anything out of his house;

15 Neither let him who is in the field return back to take his clothes;

16 And wo unto them that are with ^achild, and unto them that give suck in those days;

17 Therefore, pray ye the Lord that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day;

18 For then, in those days, shall be great ^atribulation on the ^bJews, and upon the inhabitants of ^cJerusalem, such as was not before sent upon Israel, of God, since the beginning of their kingdom until this time; no, nor ever shall be sent again upon Israel.

19 All things which have befallen them are only the beginning of the sorrows which shall come upon them.

20 And except those days should be shortened, there should none of their flesh be ^asaved; but for the elect’s sake, according to the ^bcovenant, those days shall be shortened.

21 Behold, these things I have spoken unto you concerning the Jews; and again, after the tribulation of those days which shall come upon Jerusalem, if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe him not;

22 For in those days there shall also arise false ^aChrists, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant.

23 Behold, I speak these things unto you for the ^aelect’s sake; and you also shall hear of ^bwars, and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled, for all I have told you must come to pass; but the end is not yet.

24 Behold, I have told you before;

25 Wherefore, if they shall say unto you: Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: Behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not;

26 For as the light of the morning cometh out of the ^aeast, and shineth even unto the west, and covereth the whole earth, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.

27 And now I show unto you a parable. Behold, wheresoever the ^acarcass is, there will the eagles be ^bgathered together; so likewise shall mine elect be gathered from the four quarters of the earth.

28 And they shall hear of wars, and rumors of wars.

29 Behold I speak for mine elect’s sake; for nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there shall be ^afamines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

30 And again, because iniquity shall abound, the love of men shall wax ^acold; but he that shall not be overcome, the same shall be saved.

31 And again, this ^aGospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world, for a witness unto all ^bnations, and then shall the end come, or the destruction of the wicked;

32 And again shall the ^aabomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, be fulfilled.

33 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the ^asun shall be ^bdarkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the ^cstars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

34 Verily, I say unto you, this ^ageneration, in which these things shall be shown forth, shall not pass away until all I have told you shall be fulfilled.

35 Although, the days will come, that heaven and earth shall pass away; yet my ^awords shall not pass away, but all shall be fulfilled.

36 And, as I said before, after the ^atribulation of those days, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken, then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of the earth ^bmourn; and they shall see the ^cSon of Man ^dcoming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory;

37 And whoso ^atreasureth up my word, shall not be deceived, for the Son of Man shall ^bcome, and he shall send his ^cangels before him with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together the ^dremainder of his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

38 Now learn a parable of the ^afig-tree—When its branches are yet tender, and it begins to put forth leaves, you know that summer is nigh at hand;

39 So likewise, mine elect, when they shall see all these things, they shall know that he is near, even at the doors;

40 But of that day, and hour, no one ^aknoweth; no, not the angels of God in heaven, but my Father only.

41 But as it was in the days of ^aNoah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;

42 For it shall be with them, as it was in the days which were before the ^aflood; for until the day that Noah entered into the ark they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage;

43 And ^aknew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.

44 Then shall be fulfilled that which is written, that in the ^alast days, two shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other ^bleft;

45 Two shall be grinding at the mill, the one shall be taken, and the other left;

46 And what I say unto one, I say unto all men; ^awatch, therefore, for you know not at what hour your Lord doth come.

47 But know this, if the good man of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to have been broken up, but would have been ready.

48 Therefore be ye also ^aready, for in such an hour as ye think not, the Son of Man cometh.

49 Who, then, is a ^afaithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

50 Blessed is that ^aservant whom his lord, when he cometh, shall find so doing; and verily I say unto you, he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

51 But if that evil servant shall say in his heart: My lord ^adelayeth his coming,

52 And shall begin to smite his fellow-servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken,

53 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

54 And shall cut him asunder, and shall appoint him his portion with the hypocrites; there shall be weeping and ^agnashing of teeth.

55 And thus cometh the ^aend of the wicked, according to the prophecy of Moses, saying: They shall be cut off from among the people; but the end of the earth is not yet, but by and by.

KJV Matthew 23:38-39 24:1-51

39. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

1. And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8. All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16. Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17. Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18. Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20. But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25. Behold, I have told you before.
26. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33. So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39. And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46. Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49. And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50. The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51. And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

King James Version of the Holy Bible

Public domain

68 posted on 03/23/2017 3:32:11 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

The main point being: The ages given for both Mary and Joseph. What's needed is evidence that contradicts those "specific" ages given, something I see as quite striking in itself,

Why are the ages (90 for Joseph, 12-14 for Mary) so striking? If Joseph was 90 then it means you must read another exception to the norm into Scripture, that of a 90 year old quite-mobile man, traveling to Egypt no less, who, as said, is still actively working in construction:

And if Mary is only 12-14, then it is no surprise that she was a virgin, but which does not mean she would remain as one.

Behold, I have received you from the temple of the Lord; and now I leave you in my house, and go away to build my buildings, and I shall come to you. (1:9; http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0847.htm)

Upstream, there is mention of texts that support Yeshua's siblings were in fact from Joseph's previous wife. So there is perhaps possible collaboration of Joseph being a bit older than Mary.

what you've cut and pasted offers nothing toward the above (i.e. the relative ages of Mary and Joseph), other than your attempt to further muddy the waters

It is not I who muddied the waters, as instead what i showed was that it is your stream that is muddy. And which requires recourse to a lying apocryphal source in the light of the fact that, as said, the Holy Spirit said nothing manifest that Joseph and Mary had a novel marriage without sexual cleaving, that she was a perpetual virgin, despite characteristically recording extraordinary aspects among even lesser persons, while stating Christ was the first born, and that Joseph knew not until she bore Him. And despite prophecy about Mary's children, with its apparent fulfillment.

You whole argument for PMV requires extraordinary exceptions to the norm, which Scripture does not record (which itself is an exceptions to the norm), and provides evidence against.

need to spout off.

"Spout off?" You mean (by the grace of God) providing reasoned argumentation and documented evidence contrary to the veracity of your source, and the idolatrous hyper-"hyperdulia" of the Catholic Mary?

70 posted on 03/23/2017 3:43:15 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)

Well genius, you might want to let authors in the OT, who mention the book of Jasher at least twice, know about that, and also Paul who writes in Timothy that ALL scripture/texts should be used to understand the Word - paraphrasing.

It is not I who am example mental deficiency here (though i certainly am no genius) but you, who reasons that the mention in Scripture of a source as providing material means that all they say must be Scripture.

Thus, since Paul quoted from the Cretan poet Epimenides (Titus 1:12) and from the pagan poets Epimenides and Aratus in his speech at Athens (Acts 17:28) then all they said must be considered a wholly inspired Scripture.

As must the Book of the Wars of the Lord, (Numbers 21:14), the Book of Samuel the Seer, the Book of Nathan the Prophet, and the Book of Gad the Seer, (1 Chronicles 29:29) the Acts of Rehoboam and the Chronicles of the Kings of Judah, (1 Kings 14:29) and the book of Enoch. (Jude 1: 14-15) But which Scripture can include true statements from such, this does not mean they are wholly inspired Scripture.

And which includes books that God did not care to preserve, which appears to be the case with the book of Jasher. There is a book called “The Book of Jasher” today, although it is not the same book as mentioned in the Old Testament. It is an eighteenth-century forgery that alleges to be a translation of the “lost” Book of Jasher by Alcuin, an eighth-century English scholar.

There is also a more recent book titled “The Book of Jashar” by science fiction and fantasy writer Benjamin Rosenbaum. This book is a complete work of fiction. Another book by this same name, called by many “Pseudo-Jasher,” while written in Hebrew, is also not the “Book of Jasher” mentioned in Scripture. It is a book of Jewish legends from the creation to the conquest of Canaan under Joshua, but scholars hold that it did not exist before A.D. 1625. In addition, there are several other theological works by Jewish rabbis and scholars called “Sefer ha Yashar,” but none of these claim to be the original Book of Jasher. https://www.gotquestions.org/book-of-Jasher.html

Moreover, the reason why there are "forgotten books" versus established ones is because, apart from conciliar decrees, both men and writings of God were established as being so essentially due to their unique heavenly qualities and attestation, complementary and in conflation with what already has been established. Which leaves others in the dust, except among a few eccentrics. Some contend that Eugene Swedenborg was of God and his writings were Scripture, and others that the books Enoch was, but both fail conflation with and are contrary to Scripture.

and also Paul who writes in Timothy that ALL scripture/texts should be used to understand the Word - paraphrasing.

And Paul never referenced Jasher or other books as Scripture which those who sat in the seat of Moses recognized as being established Scripture, and which he said were "wholly inspired of God," not partially.

71 posted on 03/23/2017 3:43:35 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)

Finally, someone offers good material for discussion concerning virginity, however, again, nothing relative to their relative ages - the main point of the commentary I inserted that resulted in the hijacking of metmom's thread and an explosion of animosity. I do apologize for that. It were but innocent remarks, and I had no ideal such would grow to suck in an enormity of different subjects. :) Such is the love of one Christian for another, I suppose, that none should part misinformed - unto death it would seem. But alas, a faulty oxygen sensor on my mechanical conveyance calls. Good day sir.

Glad you appreciated some material, but still fail to see how making industrious, traveling Joseph out to be a 90 year old man makes you credible.

A faulty oxygen sensor? Call the Climate Change hot line.

72 posted on 03/23/2017 3:43:44 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)

Excellent review and summary as to why the Protevangelium of James that so many catholics hang their hat on is to be rejected.

Thank God for light, while the basic Catholic rule being that whatever exalts Mary above what is written in Scripture is sacrosanct.

73 posted on 03/23/2017 3:43:49 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)

Dan, being specific, for a moment, on the doctrine of salvation, Tobias 12:8-9, is an outright distortion of salvation by grace. It ain't gonna cut the mustard.

You mean, "For alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin?" The only way that can be reconciled is in a sames sense that 1 Peter 4:8 (cf. Prv. 10:12) may be: And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

Which in context can means, as Adam Clarke states,

A loving disposition leads us to pass by the faults of others, to forgive offenses against ourselves, and to excuse and lessen, as far as is consistent with truth, the transgressions of men.

Also, while all sin needs forgiveness, which is only enabled under the rubric of the atonement (which is why sins could be forgiven even before sacrifices were offered), yet we both sin ignorantly and ours sins call for punishment in this life. But God can have compassion of sinners, such as in the light of the intercession of others, and also will in the light of our overall character.

With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful; with an upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright; With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward. (Psalms 18:25-26)

For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. (James 2:13)

Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. (Matthew 18:32-34)

The relationship btwn sin and sickness and forgiveness and healing (Mk. 2) - which is not always the case - is actually rather deep.

74 posted on 03/23/2017 4:03:55 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)

To: daniel1212; Elsie; All

It is not I who am example mental deficiency here (though i certainly am no genius) but you..

I call you a "genius" and you call me a "mental deficient". A fine example of the real "Christian" fruit you bare, no doubt. ;)

As for the question before us, the relative ages of Mary and Joseph, I provide another text. But first, a short word from someone concerning these additional scriptures/texts:

“…the word apocrypha as it is a word that is greatly misunderstood. It comes from Greek and is formed from the combination of apo (away) and krytein (hide or conceal). Thus, it signifies that which is ‘hidden away’ or ‘concealed’. Apocryphan is the singular form and apocrypha the plural. These words are used to describe the nature of a certain body of ancient religious writings. The word apocrypha, like many other words has undergone a major change in meaning throughout the centuries. With regard to these ancient books, the word apocrypha ORIGINALLY MEANT A TEXT TOO SACRED AND SECRET TO BE IN EVERYONES HANDS. It needed to be hidden away and reserved for the spirituality mature. It was a term of dignity and respect. To those who revered the apocryphal books, they were ‘hidden’ because they contained teachings that were too sacred to be revealed except to the initiated.” From Forgotten Women of God By Diana Webb page xiv

You can find more information about apocryphal books here:

https://discover-the-truth.com/2013/09/30/marriage-of-mary-to-joseph-the-carpenter/

Make sure you review the information concerning the book of Hebrews, or research it online, you might find it interesting.

For another source of evidence of the ages of Mary and Joseph, please examine History of Joseph the Carpenter.

The History of Joseph the Carpenter is one of the texts within the New Testament apocrypha concerned with the period of Jesus' life before he was 12. The most interesting thing about the story is that it is narrated by Jesus himself in a narrative told to his disciples while they were on the Mount of olives.
The story in one concerning the life of Joseph, his stepfather. In it, Jesus agrees with Mary's continued virginity. The text explains the relationship between Jesus and his brothers and sisters by stating that Joseph had four sons named Judas, Justus, James, and Simon and two daughters called Assia and Lydia by a previous marriage.
At age 90, after the death of his first wife, Joseph is given charge of the twelve year old virgin Mary. She lives in his household raising his youngest son James 'the less' along with Judas, until the time she is to be married at age 14.
We must remember that marriage at that time was not like it is today. Marriage had more to do with consummation than living arrangement. Mary may have lived with Joseph at age 12, but they would not have been considered married until they had sex. The exception would be when a man decided to keep a woman as his wife but keep her virginity.
After this basic background, the text proceeds to paraphrase the Gospel of James, stopping at the point of Jesus' birth. The text states that Joseph was miraculously blessed with mental and physical youth, dying at the age of 111.
Joseph's death takes up approximately half of the work. At the conclusion of the text, Jesus affirms that Mary remained a virgin throughout her days by addressing her as "my mother, virgin undefiled." The words “virginity” and “undefiled” in this context must relate to sexual relations and not to the traumas of childbirth.
The Text says "And the holy apostles have preserved this conversation, and have left it written
After this basic background, the text proceeds to paraphrase the Gospel of James, stopping at the point of Jesus' birth. The text states that Joseph was miraculously blessed with mental and physical youth, dying at the age of 111. Joseph's death takes up approximately half of the work. At the conclusion of the text, Jesus affirms that Mary remained a virgin throughout her days by addressing her as "my mother, virgin undefiled." The words “virginity” and “undefiled” in this context must relate to sexual relations and not to the traumas of childbirth. The Text says "And the holy apostles have preserved this conversation, and have left it written
The Encyclopedia of Lost and Rejected Scriptures: The Pseudepigrapha and Apocrypha (Kindle Locations 25540-25551). Fifth Estate. Kindle Edition.

A link to the book "The History of Joseph the Carpenter" can be found here: http://www.masseiana.org/history_of_joseph.htm

75 posted on 03/23/2017 4:49:02 PM PDT by amorphous

To: amorphous; daniel1212

You are the one who started the insulting which is seemingly the standard playbook of catholics and liberals when the argument goes against them.

You line of reasoning in this thread thus far substantiates what daniel1212 has written.

76 posted on 03/23/2017 4:57:50 PM PDT by ealgeone

I might have been little sarcastic, but calling someone a “mental deficient” is a downright insult. As for the slurs against the Catholics and Jews on this thread, the same applies, and unbecoming true followers of Christ, JMO.

77 posted on 03/23/2017 5:10:21 PM PDT by amorphous

Don't get on the playground and then start changing the rules of the game.

I've yet to see on these threads a non-catholic resort to profanity in their posts. I've seen several of the catholics do so.

It is usually the catholic who resorts to the verbal attack when the argument goes against them.

78 posted on 03/23/2017 5:26:19 PM PDT by ealgeone

To: ealgeone; All

Whatever, take your bigotry and stuff it. With your comment, I’m done. Maybe some other subject, some other time, and some other thread...Later.

79 posted on 03/23/2017 5:30:11 PM PDT by amorphous

Since I believe there is nothing new under the sun, I wonder where Mormon type doctrines came from? I have heard a few say that Mormon doctrine is somewhat related to Hinduism, in that it seems to believe there is a little bit of the God spark in all people.

80 posted on 03/23/2017 5:36:54 PM PDT by Mark17 (20 years a USAF Air Traffic Controller, RETIRED. A career that will make you old before your time)

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