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Posted on 03/13/2017 8:58:52 AM PDT by ebb tide
Two trials, two appeals to conscience.
Trial 1: I cannot and will not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. Here I stand, I can do no other, so help me God. Amen.
Trial 2: If the number of bishops and universities should be so material as your lordship seems to think, then I see little cause, my lord, why that should make any change in my conscience. For I have no doubt that, though not in this realm, but of all those well learned bishops and virtuous men that are yet alive throughout Christendom, they are not fewer who are of my mind therein. But if I should speak of those who are already dead, of whom many are now holy saints in heaven, I am very sure it is the far greater part of them who, all the while they lived, thought in this case the way that I think now. And therefore am I not bound, my lord, to conform my conscience to the council of one realm against the General Council of Christendom.
What is the difference of these two quotes?
The first, from the friar Martin Luther, asserts the primacy of conscience over the universal consent of the Church and the tradition.
The second, from a laymen Thomas More, notes the agreement of conscience to the faith of Christendom, the history of the Church, and the saints of Heaven.
Why are these appeals to conscience significant? I think Belloc is fundamentally correct in his assessment of the nature of Protestantism as a denial of religious authority, resting in a visible Church:
The Protestant attack differed from the rest especially in this characteristic, that its attack did not consist in the promulgation of a new doctrine or of a new authority, that it made no concerted attempt at creating a counter-Church, but had for its principle the denial of unity. It was an effort to promote that state of mind in which a Church in the old sense of the word-that is, an infallible, united, teaching body, a Person speaking with Divine authority-should be denied; not the doctrines it might happen to advance, but its very claim to advance them with unique authority.
The individual quickly emerged to fill the vacuum left by the Church, as the dominant religious factor in the modern period.
Martin Luther: Revolutionary, Not Reformer In this year of the five hundredth anniversary of the Reformation, we have to take stock of the legacy of the renegade, Catholic priest, Martin Luther. What were his intentions? It is commonly alleged, even among Catholics, that he had the noble aim of reforming abuses within the Church.
In fact, Martin Luther discovered his revolutionary, theological positions about a year before he posted his 95 theses. Probably in the year 1516, while lecturing on Romans at the seminary in Wittenburg, Luther had a pivotal experience, which shaped the way he viewed the Christian faith. Essentially, his tower experience, resolved his difficulty of conscience. He saw God and His commandments as a moral threat:
But I, blameless monk that I was, felt that before God I was a sinner with an extremely troubled conscience. I couldnt be sure that God was appeased by my satisfaction. I did not love, no, rather I hated the just God who punishes sinners. In silence, if I did not blaspheme, then certainly I grumbled vehemently and got angry at God. I said, Isnt it enough that we miserable sinners, lost for all eternity because of original sin, are oppressed by every kind of calamity through the Ten Commandments? Why does God heap sorrow upon sorrow through the Gospel and through the Gospel threaten us with his justice and his wrath? This was how I was raging with wild and disturbed conscience. I constantly badgered St. Paul about that spot in Romans 1 and anxiously wanted to know what he meant.
Reading Romans 1, while in the tower of his monastery, Luther suddenly saw the resolution of his troubled conscience through faith: All at once I felt that I had been born again and entered into paradise itself through open gates. Immediately I saw the whole of Scripture in a different light.
As we see in Trents teaching on justification and the Joint Declaration of Faith, there is nothing wrong with the realization that righteousness (same word as justification) comes through faith alone, moved by the grace of God. The problem is the re-reading of Scripture and all of the Christian tradition in a different light through this realization. Luthers troubled conscience and experience of faith led him eventually (as it took him a while to work it out) to reject many of the Sacraments, books of the Bible, and the Churchs authority all in the name of liberty of conscience. A great schism would follow from Luthers personal experience.
The Significance of Luthers Teaching on Conscience No doubt reforms were needed in the Catholic Church in 1517. Contrary to popular opinion however, Luther primarily sought to spread his understanding of the Gospel, not to correct abuses. Catholic practices became abuses precisely because they contradicted his tower experience of 1516.
One of Luthers early tracts, Appeal to the Christian Nobility of the German Nation (1520), lays out the implications of his view in more detail:
Besides, if we are all priests, as was said above, and all have one faith, one Gospel, one sacrament, why should we not also have the power to test and judge what is correct or incorrect in matters of faith? What becomes of the words of Paul in I Corinthians 2:15: He that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man, II Corinthians 4:13: We have all the same Spirit of faith? Why, then, should not we perceive what squares with faith and what does not, as well as does an unbelieving pope?
All these and many other texts should make us bold and free, and we should not allow the Spirit of liberty, as Paul calls Him, to be frightened off by the fabrications of the popes, but we ought to go boldly forward to test all that they do or leave undone, according to our interpretation of the Scriptures, which rests on faith, and compel them to follow not their own interpretation, but the one that is better .
Thus I hope that the false, lying terror with which the Romans have this long time made our conscience timid and stupid, has been allayed.
Luther never condoned license (though he did condone Philip of Hesses bigamy), as he said his conscience was captive to the Word of God, but he did separate the decision of his conscience from the authority of the Church. This proved absolutely foundational for Protestantism and modern, religious experience.
Father of the Modern World The claim that Luther stands at a crucial moment between medieval Christendom and the modern world is not contentious. This is need for care, however. His separation of faith and reason and insistence on the spiritual nature of the Church, in my opinion, did quicken the advance to secularism. However, Luther did not directly intend the creation of the modern, secular world as know it. Yet his stand on conscience and his individualistic interpretation of faith did lend itself to modern individualism, which I would even say is the heart of modern culture.
Cardinal Ratzinger suggested that Luther stood at the forefront of the modern movement, focused on the freedom of the individual. I recommend looking at this piece, Truth and Freedom further, but his central insight on Luther follows:
There is no doubt that from the very outset freedom has been the defining theme of that epoch which we call modern . Luthers polemical writing [On the Freedom of the Christian] boldly struck up this theme in resounding tones . At issue was the freedom of conscience vis-à-vis the authority of the Church, hence the most intimate of all human freedoms . Even if it would not be right to speak of the individualism of the Reformation, the new importance of the individual and the shift in the relation between individual conscience and authority are nonetheless among its dominant traits (Communio 23 [1996]: 20).
These traits have survived and at times predominate our contemporary religious experience. The sociologist, Christian Smith, has noted in his study of the faith life of emerging adults, Souls in Transition, that an evangelical focus on individual salvation has been carried over into a new religious autonomy. He claims that
the places where todays emerging adults have taken that individualism in religion basically continues the cultural trajectory launched by Martin Luther five centuries ago and propelled along the way by subsequent development of evangelical individualism, through revivalism, evangelism and pietism . Furthermore, the strong individualistic subjectivism in the emerging adult religious outlookthat truth should be decided by what seems right to individuals, based on their personal experience and feelingsalso has deep cultural-structural roots in American evangelicalism.
Luthers legacy clearly points toward individualism in religion, setting up a conflict with religious authority and tradition. The average Western Christian probably follows his central assertion that one must follow ones own conscience over and against the Church.
Luthers View of Conscience in the Catholic Church The key issue in debating Luthers legacy on conscience in the Catholic Church entails whether the teachings of the Church are subordinate to ones own conscience or whether conscience is bound by the teaching of the Church.
I know an elderly Salesian priest who told me with all sincerity that the purpose of Vatican II was to teach us that we could decide what to believe and how to live according to our conscience. This is clearly the Spirit of Vatican II, as Gaudium et Spes, while upholding the dignity of conscience, enjoins couples in regards to the transmission of life: But in their manner of acting, spouses should be aware that they cannot proceed arbitrarily, but must always be governed according to a conscience dutifully conformed to the divine law itself, and should be submissive toward the Churchs teaching office, which authentically interprets that law in the light of the Gospel (50). Dignitatis Humanae, Vaticans Declaration on Religious Liberty, holds together two crucial points, stating that one cannot be forced to act in a manner contrary to his conscience, (3) as well as that in the formation of their consciences, the Christian faithful ought carefully to attend to the sacred and certain doctrine of the Church (14). The Council upheld the dignity of conscience as well as its obligation to accept the authority of the Church.
The misinterpretation of the Councils teaching on conscience as license found its first test case just three years after the Council closed in Humanae Vitae. Theologians such as Bernard Härring and Charles Curran advocated for the legitimacy of dissent from the encyclical on the grounds of conscience. The Canadian Bishops, in their Winnipeg Statement, affirmed: In accord with the accepted principles of moral theology, if these persons have tried sincerely but without success to pursue a line of conduct in keeping with the given directives, they may be safely assure that, whoever honestly chooses that course which seems right to him does so in good conscience.
Conscience also stands at the center of the current controversy over the interpretation of Amoris Laetitia. Ive already written on how Amoris stands in relation to the Churchs efforts to inculturate the modern world in relation to conscience. Cardinal Caffarra claimed that the fifth dubium on conscience was the most important. He stated further: Here, for me, is the decisive clash between the vision of life that belongs to the Church (because it belongs to divine Revelation) and modernitys conception of ones own conscience. Recently, the German bishops, following those of Malta, have decided: We write thatin justified individual cases and after a longer processthere can be a decision of conscience on the side of the faithful to receive the Sacraments, a decision which must be respected.
In light of the current controversy on conscience, it is troubling that Luther is now upheld as genuine reformer. The most troubling is from the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity in its Resources for the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity and throughout the year 2017: Separating that which is polemical from the theological insights of the Reformation, Catholics are now able to hear Luthers challenge for the Church of today, recognising him as a witness to the gospel (From Conflict to Communion 29). And so after centuries of mutual condemnations and vilification, in 2017 Lutheran and Catholic Christians will for the first time commemorate together the beginning of the Reformation. The Vatican also announced a commemorative stamp (which to me sounds like the United States issuing a stamp commemorating the burning the White House by British troops).
Pope Francis has spoken of Luther several times in the past year, including in an inflight press conference returning from Armenia: I think that the intentions of Martin Luther were not mistaken. He was a reformer. Perhaps some methods were not correct. In response I ask, what did Luther reform? Francis pointed to two things in his journey to Sweden. The Reformation helped give greater centrality to sacred scripture in the Churchs life, but it did so by advocating the flawed notion of sola scriptura. Francis also pointed to Luthers concept of sola gratia, which reminds us that God always takes the initiative, prior to any human response, even as he seeks to awaken that response. While the priority of Gods initiative is true and there are similarities to Catholic teaching in this teaching (that faith is a free gift that cannot be merited), Luther denied our cooperation with grace, our ability to grow in sanctification and merit, and that we fall from grace through mortal sin. Francis also noted, while speaking to an ecumenical delegation from Finland: In this spirit, we recalled in Lund that the intention of Martin Luther 500 years ago was to renew the Church, not divide Her. Most recently he spoke of how we now know how to appreciate the spiritual and theological gifts that we have received from the Reformation.
It is true that Martin Luther did not want to divide the Church. He wanted to reform the Church on his own terms, which was not genuine reform. Luther said he would follow the Pope if the Pope taught the pure Gospel of his conception: The chief cause that I fell out with the pope was this: the pope boasted that he was the head of the Church, and condemned all that would not be under his power and authority; for he said, although Christ be the head of the Church, yet, notwithstanding, there must be a corporal head of the Church upon earth. With this I could have been content, had he but taught the gospel pure and clear, and not introduced human inventions and lies in its stead. Further he accuses the corruption of conscience by listening to the Church as opposed to Scripture: But the papists, against their own consciences, say, No; we must hear the Church. This points us back to the crucial issue of authority, pointed out by Belloc.
Conclusion: More Over Luther We should not celebrate the Reformation, because we cannot celebrate the defense of erroneous conscience held up against the authority of the Church. As St. Thomas More rightly said in his Dialogue on Conscience, taken down by his daughter Meg: But indeed, if on the other side a man would in a matter take away by himself upon his own mind alone, or with some few, or with never so many, against an evident truth appearing by the common faith of Christendom, this conscience is very damnable. He may have had Luther in mind.
More did not stand on his own private interpretation of the faith, but rested firmly on the authority of Christendom and, as Chesterton put it, the democracy of the dead: But go we now to them that are dead before, and that are I trust in heaven, I am sure that it is not the fewer part of them that all the time while they lived, thought in some of the things, the way that I think now.
More is a crucial example of standing firm in a rightly formed conscience. We should remember why he died and not let his witness remain in vain. He stood on the ground of the Churchs timeless teaching, anchored in Scripture and the witness of the saints. If we divorce conscience from authority, we will end in moral chaos. As Cardinal Ratzinger asked in his lucid work, On Conscience: Does God speak to men in a contradictory manner? Does He contradict Himself? Does He forbid one person, even to the point of martyrdom, to do something that He allows or even requires of another? These are crucial questions we must face.
Rather than celebrating the defender of erroneous conscience, lets remember and invoke the true martyr of conscience, who died upholding the unity of the faith.
And Roman CORRUPTION was the FATHER of Luther!!!
In the Fatima sanctuary, at the exact spot where Our Lady appeared, Father Gruner pays homage to Her while touching the original statue of Fatima . Father Gruner was recently graced with this rare opportunity since normally this sacred image is always protected by a glass covering which completely surrounds it all day long. |
Mary, Our Life, Our Sweetness, Our Hope
by St. Alphonsus de Liguori
St. Alphonsus de Liguori explains how Mary is our life, how She is our sweetness, and how She is our hope.
The historical record of the worship of Mary accumulated by St. Alphonsus de Liguori who wrote The Glories of Mary in the year 1745, which has been since translated into English and printed again and again and again with the full affirmation and imprimatur of the official Roman Catholic Church. In this book there is the sum of all the glories of Mary which has been vouchsafe to the Roman Catholic Church and the Church itself calls upon all its constituents to give Mary that honor she is due. She is identified as Mary, our Queen; Mary, our mother; Mary, our life; Mary, our sweetness; Mary, our hope; Mary, our help; Mary, our Mediatress; Mary, our advocate; Mary, our guardian; and Mary, our salvation. It is said that Mary delivers us from hell, Mary delivers us from purgatory, and Mary leads us to heaven. And it should be said that de Liguori, who collected all the Marion dogma and devotion, was himself one of the most celebrated and revered authorities in the Roman Catholic Church. De Liguori was himself a cardinal in life, and a saint in death.
Jesus said "Without Me you can do nothing". In this crisis which looms ahead of us, Our Lady has told us that we need Her help, Her intercession. We must ask for Her help with the Rosary and the Scapular.
At Fatima , Our Lady told us very plainly that "Only I can help you". Today more than ever is this so true.
Pray the Rosary and sacrifice yourself for Our Lady.
I urge you to also make some sacrifices as Our Lady of Fatima asked us. For those who are able, do some fasting. If you can, abstain from meat by eating meat only during one meal a day. Try to do this for two days, even ten days or 30 days. Of course we should abstain totally from meat every Friday.
Jesus and Mary Our Hope
It is so urgent that we reach as many souls as possible before it is too late. Let us be of good cheer and remember the words of Jesus to each of us, "It's never too late to have recourse to Jesus and Mary." That is why it is so important to reach the many millions of souls who do not know this, and who do not know the grave dangers lying in wait for their souls.
No, we must never lose hope. Mary is our hope. She can obtain for us what we cannot by ourselves. Read what St. Alphonsus has to say regarding confidence in Our Lady's intercession in "Mary Leads Her Servants to Heaven". Father Manelli also reminds us of the importance of devotion to Our Lady. (See "Hail Mary, Full of Grace"). Our Blessed Mother tells us to turn to Her in confidence. She tells us repeatedly to ask Her intercession through the frequent fervent praying of the Rosary. (See "The Rosary"). She tells us we must pray the Rosary every day. She wants us to pray it many times a day.
http://Fatima.org/crusader/cr38/cr38pg2.asp
"Blessed is he whose interior offers the Blessed Virgin Mary a place of repose." Devotion towards the Blessed Virgin remains in all who are the inheritance of Our Lord; that is to say, in all who will praise Him eternally in Heaven.
O, how many blessed souls are now in Heaven who would never have been there had not Mary, by Her powerful intercession, led them thither. I made that in the heavens there should rise light that never faileth. Cardinal Hugo, in his commentary on the above text of Ecclesiasticus, says in the name of Mary, "I have caused as many saints in Heaven through Her intercession, who would never have been there but through Her ."
...in the words of St. Ambrose, "Open to us, O Mary, the gates of paradise, since Thou hast its keys." "Aperi nobis, O Virgo coelum, cujus claves habes." Nay more, the Church says, that "Thou art its gate."
St. Antoninus tells us "that this divine Mother has already, by Her assistance and prayers, obtained Heaven for us, provided we put no obstacle in the way."23 Hence, says Abbot Guerric, "he who serves Mary, and for whom She intercedes, is as certain of Heaven as if he was already there."24 St. John Damascene also says, "that to serve Mary and be Her courtier is the greatest honor we can possibly possess; for to serve the Queen of Heaven is already to reign there, and live under Her commands is more than to govern."25 On the other hand, he adds, "that those who do not serve Mary will not be saved; for those who are deprived of the help of this great Mother are also deprived of that of Her Son and of the whole court of heaven."26
23. "Coeleste nobis regnum, suo interventu auxiliis, et precibus, impetravit."Paciucch. Sup. Salve Reg. exc. I.
24. "Qui Virgini famulatur, ita securus est de paradiso, ac si esset in paradiso."
25. "Summus honor, servire Mariæ, et de ejus esse familia; etenim ei servire, regnare est; et ejus agi frænis, summa libertas."
26. "Gens quæ non servierit illi, peribit; gentes destitutæ tantæ Matris auxilio, destituuntur auxilio Filii et totius curi coelestis." De Laud. B. M. I. 4.
Cardinal Hugo http://Fatima.org/crusader/cr38/cr38pg3.asp
Proverbs 26:4-5
Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Or you will also be like him.
Answer a fool as his folly deserves, That he not be wise in his own eyes.
It's sure hard to figure just which of these two verse to follow; isn't it.
“Its amazing that you continue to defend that and yourself.”
I never defended corruption - I merely pointed out it has always been gere - and you feel flat on your face and made no attempt to dispute that fact. Why would you? Everyone knows it’s true. Corruption has been here since Adam and Eve. Why would anyone pretend it is new or medieval?
“Theres nothing to refute, only something to condemn and you didnt condemn one iota of it.”
Sure I have. After all the Faith teaches Adam and Eve sinned. Do you doubt it? If I use the word corruption how can that not be condemning it in itself? What you’re saying is as idiotic as saying that someone using the word “murder” rather than “justifiable killing” isn’t really condemning murder.
“You merely continue to defend it.”
Nope. But I suppose you have to make that false point because you have nothing else to say. After all you probably never realized that corruption has been here since Adam and Eve - because if you had then you never would have assumed there would be no corruption among human beings in the Church. Wherever you find people you find corruption.
“Interesting, too, that I RARELY see any other Catholics ever condemn. Most of them slip immediately into the *everyone is a sinner* mode and defend or excuse the same kind of behavior they condemn in any non-Catholics or anyone who isnt as perfect as Jesus Himself.”
No Catholic here has ever defended “the same kind of behavior”. What we do is assume there will always be some corruption because human beings are corrupt. Concupiscence makes it so.
In other words, we deal with reality but Protestant anti-Catholics dwelling in their obsessiveness often pretend that corruption is only a Catholic issue or think that they are somehow doing something good or important by pointing out that there have been corrupt Catholic people when everyone already knows that.
It is a sign of obsession to repeatedly point out something that in itself doesn’t mean what the anti-Catholic thinks it means. Corruption among Catholic people in no way changes the fact that Christ founded the Catholic Church since wherever you find people you find corruption. Thus, all someone does by obsessively pointing out corruption among Catholic people is make themselves look like like an obsessive person who is weirdly fascinated by posting lists of people they know nothing about from centuries and centuries ago who may or may not have been as corrupt as the anti-Catholic says. What good does that do? No Catholic here will say, “Wow, some pope who I never heard of a thousand years ago is said to be corrupt by some website on the internet I’ve never heard and cut and pasted by some obsessive anti-Catholic I know only too well - I guess that means that Jesus didn’t establish the Church.” That’s illogical to say the least.
So by all means continue to waste your time posting lists of long since dead people here that no one - including Catholics - ever think about, or even know about for that matter, because you’ll accomplish nothing but make yourself look obsessive about things no one here can go back in time and fix anyway. Enjoy wasting your time accomplishing nothing!
There were many translations never approved by the Church, containing errors.
Exactly!
It’s about self-exaltation!
NOT the words father, teacher, leader.
It is about self-exaltation.
NOT the words father, teacher, leader.
And yet we have the latecomers show up with their stale false claims about Catholics worshiping Mary.
There's a lot of truth in this statement by Vlad. Problem is....he doesn't realize what it is.
If not for the Catholic Church you wouldn’t have the Bible.
If not for the Catholic Church controlling and banning the proliferation of hundreds of mistranslations, you wouldn’t know where to start.
If you weren’t over here trolling after days of this thread, you’d have provided an example.
The idols of Mary Catholics kneel before and pray to disagree with you.
Both could apply.
Keep reading. You’re close.
What...roman catholics wrote it??
That's gonna come as a shock to a lot of Jews.
Catholics only formally agreed upon their version of the Bible at Trent.
If not for the Catholic Church controlling and banning the proliferation of hundreds of mistranslations, you wouldnt know where to start.
You mean like this...
No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture. But the first scriptural passage which contains the promise of the redemption, mentions also the Mother of the Redeemer. The sentence against the first parents was accompanied by the Earliest Gospel ( Proto-evangelium ), which put enmity between the serpent and the woman : "and I will put enmity between thee and the woman and her seed; she (he) shall crush thy head and thou shalt lie in wait for her (his) heel" ( Genesis 3:15 ).
The translation "she" of the Vulgate is interpretative; it originated after the fourth century, and cannot be defended critically.http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=6056
One of roman catholicism's biggest teachings and it's based on an undefendable translation of the Vulgate.
Hey...for that matter...it's not even based on Scripture.
No need to defame other people...particularly since with out the reformation the people in the pews would not have had access to a Bible....only someone’s reading of it.
Considering that the current pope is a communist you may want to check yourself
When I was a Catholic, decades ago, I worshipped Mary. I don't know if all Catholics do, I just know I did.
If you don’t converse when posted to just call names or make false accusations.
SOP and does not contribute positively to the debate.
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